BOBO: All of Tim Stewart's thing in ORDER

[Tani Jantsang ©]

This here is exactly what was on http://wolfathart.does.it - his own
website - and in the order in which he got it. Now that I've gone to the
trouble to give "the archivist" the information exactly as it came in and
was put up - the "archivist" can at least read it IN ORDER and see what's
there to be seen.

It seems to me - and I have reread it all including that MESS that Tim wrote
before 3 people edited it for him (which he approved) - that Gilmore was
more objecting to the STAUNCH INDEPENDENT'S views - than to any one in or
connected to the COS at the time - unless he knew what Tim Stewart was
REALLY up to by some other means (Les Masters did - I did not).

Begin here.

This is the original Project One (Is Fascism Satanic) as it was seen by
Peter Gilmore, after Ygraine Gidney bugged him to go look at it. It was up
on his OWN website, a website he was supposed to have paid to have made.
The website was http://wolfathart.does.it. It is now gone.

Stewart's introduction 2000 - his own words. He ASKED people to edit it for
him because no one understood what the hell he was talking about - even if
they got a vague clue what it was about. This was posted by him on
alt.satanism and on the COS message board "letters to the devil."

Article from Citizen Stewart of the SCS, COS.Project One (Introduction)

First, as we start the analysis of the ideal of Fascism within the satanic
movement we must hear both sides of the fences historical account from a
highly Objective viewpoint, which is only fair for both. You may or may not
agree with what has to be said on either, but you aren't being spoon fed
this information either, on both sides' parties. Of course the assertion
made by Magistrate Nadramia in her applaud able speculation of the
similarities between the both parties are noted and should be viewed for
further historical, relevant data on the research at hand. In any case the
Fascist, AKA Nazi movement initially had had highly appointed critiques
which are too notable. One. The Fascists and Nazis politically believed in
terminating a weaker race in the case of WWII this was the Jewish Race,
who's thought to be a religion in some cases however scientists can now read
by gene analysis that is and what is not Jewish. The best diagnosis they
know possible for the stratification that they seek could be found in an
ideal level of the most omnipotent political statement; this was Fascism.
This Was Nazism. But, the ideal was founded upon certain magical meanings
behind the ancient symbols involved. That, are looked upon as being "Evil"
like the Sigil of Baphomet the Swastika was considered to be a very
atrocious thing, the meanings though, are different, regardless of Herd
Misconceptions.

"Amidst the Hitleran concept of strength through joy!" -ASL,
The_Satanic_Bible

Indeed, the man was no fool when he offered the people freedom on a personal
level, but the way that it was done was wrong as opposed to Church of Satan
doctrine. Herd mentality as a sin in CoS doctrine could also be noted, how
else would they be able to exterminate a race? On a personal level? Was
this, was this a way for an ideal form of stratification? Is murder, real
down to earth murder, stratification, and would it be justified through the
actions founded upon a Fascistic point of view. Metaphorically speaking, of
course it is justified through stratification, through the magical procedure
of throwing curses, Hexes, and unlocking the doors with the key in the form
of the postulate. The purpose of this letter is to ask participation on
behalf of Church of Satan members and Non Church of Satan members who would
like to become involved in data collection so an article may be written on
the subject, both sides are encouraged to either send them to me through my
E-Mail, if you would not like to receive credit and remain anonymous that is
fine.

E-Mail Observations and information to ***@hotmail.com

I look forward to writing this article, in any case. Thank you for
participation.

Lets Make History...

"Iron Handed, Death Defiant, Mighty-Minded!"

Tiomthy Stewart Student, Satanic Combat Sciences

This was posted also to alt.satanism:
From: Wolf At Hart <***@hotmail.com.invalid>
Subject: Project One
Date: 2000/06/22
Message-ID: <***@usw-ex0106-045.remarq.com>#1/1
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X-Trace: WReNphoon4 961659276 10.0.2.45 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:34:36 PDT)
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start
Here
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Newsgroups: alt.satanism
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---------

STEWART'S INTRODUCTION: (2000 or prior) this is how it got edited by Casey
and a few COS members (they took it paragraph at a time). Then it was read
to Stewart on a phone and he approved it! Also, consider that where he
states that he, "looked forward to writing it." He was looking for essays
that OTHER PEOPLE would write, not that he wrote. He already wrote what he
wrote and it was virtually unreadable to everyone who tried. What he said
over voice chat and phone was clear enough. He wanted to do a project that
asks "is fascism satanic or not." That's it.

Project One. Stewart's Introduction edited:

When I first heard of the ideal of fascism being satanic I questioned the
reason. What was to become of these fascist Satanists?

So there I declared I would find out other people's opinions on the subject
and somewhere inbetween I would form my own.

Since the Project itself consists of E mails submitted to me, for the
Project, its sole intent is to work like a "message board" of essays, which
the applicant merely states their opinions or facts.

There indeed is difference between both opinion and fact and my motives
behind Project One was to separate the two from each other when embarking
upon this view. Although constructing something of the sort would be hard to
keep the differing views balanced in debate; I set out to give a fair trial
on the matter, and yes, by all means I am still taking in applicants for the
project.

If the Project is viewed as being "one sided" I cannot be held to blame for
this, and with this known I cannot be held responsible if I did try.

I questioned the integrity of using the swastika as a Satanic symbol: Should
we be seeing Satanists run around in white robes burning crosses on
doorsteps because there is "power" in doing this, or using any KKK imagery
in Satanism? After all, the KKK is controversial is it not? The same token
for Nazi symbol, the swastika: How many people died in World War II: over
5,860,000 forgotten? These numbers are nauseating. Would self proclaimed
Satanists align themselves with the nazis, who single handedly picked out
what they referred to as "the others" (keeping in mind that Satan translate
to "the other, the adversary")? That it is common knowledge that the Jewish
were not the only ones held in concentration camps.

So before reading any further I'd like you to ponder the same question I
have for some time: Is Fascism satanic? So, until next time.

Lets Make History.

Timony Epperhart Wolf At Hart

==========

Stewart's original COMMENTARY (This was apparently going to be put up at the
very end of all the essays that Tim Stewart collected, however he already
had his commentary written!). (2000) Of course, no one would put the
commentary up, since he first would have to have a lot of essays!

Project One Commentary

This is a rather signifigant turning point, here I must conjure forth a
detail element to fill in the blanks, evaluate the responses and give life
to something that hits home base with a lot of Satanists world wide in and
outside of the Church of Satan. What you just witnessed you probably already
understood as history displays first hand, not only what a fasces does, and
it is fairly easy to see, in those examples, just what kind of people
Fascism appeals to what kind of people as such,and the Christian Coalition
did not make it up, their ancestors did. It is due apparent in the
inquisition days. Your freedom may be free, but someone is paying for it:
people did. Where are they now? Who killed them?

There is no dissimilarity regardless of the "moral foundations" the
intention was to make an "All is One" Union of the dictatorship within the
context of those who did govern, and brainwash those whom opposed the ideals
and they share the same intentions. If not, they would kill them like on old
times "convert or Die," and readers paying attention can see this and can
see the similarity. But those that did die now say they cannot do this
anymore, but they would if they could. They died and paid for freedom with
they're blood. And their vehemence shows that the Fascists they would do it
gladly. The Satanic Fascist faction makes it plain they would be glad to
silence the oposition. "You better shutup!" "You better drop this project."
"You can leave if you don't like it."Some might think to individually, or
do think that an All is One union would actually do some good for the
movement itself, for what: Fascism means putting something in front of the
self, not Satanism. Satanism means you earn it, fascism means someone tells
you it is so, they are at war, like us. Further more, because of the
similarity of thier doctrines with, in the past, enemies of satanism, the so
called nazi satanic revisionists have wore out there welcome.

Some people still wonder if there is, for real, some faction in the cos. Are
factions just another way of putting stratification, that's the weak getting
the swift kick and the right, whom at the same time. That can be an
interestng question. But the one reading this clearly should see that
sratification it isn't, it's all the same. Make might ride upon the steed of
victory as we will when this faction is done away with. Victory, now there's
an expression I hear quite often. Triumph, hunted out by those that move
violently and thrive for victory, they have a common goal in mind: Winning.
what are they fighting: They're fighting for victory. Who are they fighting?
They are fighting their own individual selves and trying to make it look
like strong. They are not strong, like others who tried it before. the way
they see it the identification with a political doctrine and its people that
sought out the elimination of a what was supposedly a supposedly "weaker
race" fills them to the brim with some feeling of superiority and they take
this to be in form Satanic. Self-delusion is not ever and isn't a Satanic
value and self-deluded they are those who posses the "personal power" these
would-be Fascists lust after feel no need to adopt postures designed to
showcase that said power only the posers feel the need to pose. This is
easily proven by a simple survey of those who practiced political Fascism in
the past it has never been a political movement of the strong only weak and
sorry people believed this way.

Think too an interesting side thought is that these people are making an
idol out of some system of thought and practice that would see them as its
first victims no genuine political Fascist would "suffer a Satanist to
live." Look at them, they were weak, all those that tried before were
beaten, just like these new ones will be when the infection is cured. Do we
want to cure the infection or do we let it run out a course that it is on?
First amendment freedoms- Freedom of religion, freedom from the
establishment of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom
of petition and assembly, and freedom of association-Are at the heart of the
democratic process.Freedom:Equality: the same thing for the government as
for the organization, 200 year old Satanism, built into the us Constitution.
Not fascism,the opposite and enemy. The government we have we make conform,
should the organization be let to wallow and be fascist? I think not. the
first amendment freedoms are not apparent in a place under the fascist
Nation, or here more approximately put a movement. If there ever was a
faction in the satanic movement, this is it. Though I well remain skeptical
of calling this "Faction" I would provoke those minds and even dare say it
is like the North and South America when the civil war raged about, and
fought for independence, just as we must do from this faction. And we will
have victory, as earlier Satanists before us. The north did win, just think
what would have happened if the south won.

Two hundred years ago, a group of people dedicated to "Nature's god" looked
at the tyranny that they were forced to live with and decided that such
tyranny as it was was no longer to be tolerated or accepted so they pledged
themselves at the cost of their lives fortunes and sacred honor to freedom
from the tyranny of the "Christian King of Great Britain." The government
they formed in the middle part of Revolution they then built on principles
Satanists do claim as their own: Freedom, Equality. Freedom to Do as Thou
Wilt. Equality all have an equal right to Liberty. Those who practice the
principles of Freedom and Equality come together to preserve them, wherever
and whenever they are threatened as we must do in the face of a fascist
infection. It is time to kick some ass.

Again, that reader that is paying attention to what is written here will
take note that nowhere in that Satanic ideal will you find anything of the
Fascist ideal. Indeed too it is the truth that the two are anathema to each
other. On a note it is of irony is that very freedom and liberalism that
the Fascist faction finds such to be an abhorrent thing that allows the
Satanic organization that they infect still to exist! All religions are
equal under the law. The State should not interfere that the liberals say
this. It can be seen that the ideals of the Fascist have nothing in common
with the ideals of the Satanist, yet here we have a Fascist faction
infecting a Satanic organization. What is to be done? The members must now
then take back the organization like how it was. Unless they must accept
the fact that they're organization has been usurped and then they must
conform to the new ideology for conform these Fascists surely try to make
you do! Or they will separate themselves and form a new faction. or they
walk away from the public movement all together. The question I put tothose
that are the readers is this: Which action is the correct you will take? I
say it is time to start kicking some ass. Only you can decide.

Let's Make History

Timothy Stewart Epperhart, SCS

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Stewart's above passages were also edited by Casey and I think 2 COS members
who both tried to make heads or tails out of it. Keep in mind, this was
supposed to be a commantary written at the END of the entire collection of
essays - essays that he didn't even have yet! This was read to Stewart on
the phone to make sure this is what he intended to say. In other words,
Stewart wrote this BEFORFE HE HAD ANY ESSAYS AT ALL!!! So anyone trying to
edit it - had a very very hard time trying, since there were NO ESSAYS - not
yet. He wrote the end of his essay BEFORE he even had essays.

Stewart's Commentary edited with him on phone, 2000.

Now we come to the end where it is necessary to evaluate these responses and
fill in the blanks. I am sure some of the points raised will hit home with
many readers, both those who are members of the CoS and those who are not.

Some of what you've read you probably already understood, since history is
rife with examples of the affects of Fascism and it is fairly easy to see,
in those examples, just what kind of people Fascism appeals to. Regardless
of the differences between the "moral foundations" of those Fascists in the
past and the present Fascist infection, as I see it, they share the same
intentions. That is, to form an "All is One" union or dictatorship at the
highest levels in the organization that would trickle down, via
brainwashing, and a "toe the line or get out" party line to the
rank-and-file.

The reader who is paying attention will note the similarity in this doctrine
and outlook to the early Christian doctrine of "Convert or Die." The
proponents of this Organizational Fascism cannot practice that doctrine in
full in the real world because those in the past that objected to this
tyranny bought our freedom from that fate with their blood.

Were it still a valid option, however, the vehemence of the Satanic Fascist
faction makes it fairly plain that it would be a method joyously utilized by
them to silence the opposition! "You better shut up!" "You better drop this
project." "You can leave if you don't like it." This doctrinal similarity
with the avowed enemies of the Satanic movement in the past, is a large
contributing factor to the feeling, on my part and on the part of many, that
these so-called Nazi Revisionist Satanists have worn out their welcome.

Some still pose the question of whether there is, indeed, a Fascist faction
in the CoS. What of stratification? Would that not be a definition of what
is going on within the organization? It is an interesting question. I would
ask the reader to keep the following point in mind as he/she ponders the
question of stratification: the goal of Fascism is "sameness." In no way
does "sameness" equate with stratification.

The members of this Fascist faction would have us believe that by belonging
to their faction they are demonstrating some kind of "personal power." In
their eyes, the identification with a political doctrine and people that
sought the elimination of a supposedly "weaker race" invests them with some
feeling of superiority, and they take this to be Satanic. Self-delusion is
never a Satanic value, and self-deluded they are.

Those who posses the "personal power" these would-be Fascists lust after,
feel no need to adopt postures designed to showcase said power; only the
posers feel the need to pose. This is easily proven by a simple survey of
those who practiced political Fascism in the past; it has never been a
political movement of the strong.

An interesting aside is that these people are idolizing a system of thought
and practice that would see them as its first victims. No genuine political
Fascist would "suffer a Satanist to live." The political and real ideal of
Satanism was set forth over 200 years ago and is rooted in the concept of
Freedom. Specific examples of those Freedoms were built into the
Constitution of the United States: freedom of speech, religion, the press,
and assembly and petition. Are we to accept any less from an organization,
specifically a Satanic one that supposedly holds the Self sacred, than we
demand from our government? I think not!

Two hundred years ago, a group of people dedicated to "Nature's god" looked
at the tyranny that they were forced to live with and decided that such
tyranny was no longer to be tolerated or accepted. They pledged themselves,
at the cost of "their lives, fortunes and sacred honor," to freedom from the
tyranny of the "Christian King of Great Britain." The government they formed
in the midst of Revolution was built on principles Satanists claim as their
own: Liberty, Equity and Unity. Liberty: Do as Thou Wilt. Equity: all have
an equal right to Liberty. Unity: those who practice the principles of
Liberty and Equity come together to preserve them, wherever and whenever
they are threatened.

Again, the reader who is paying attention will note that nowhere in that
Satanic ideal will you find anything of the Fascist ideal. Indeed, the two
are anathema to each other. On an ironic note, it is that very freedom and
liberalism that the Fascist faction finds so abhorrent, that allows the
Satanic organization that they infect to exist! "All religions are equal
under the law. The State should not interfere." Liberals say this. It can be
seen that the ideals of the Fascist have nothing in common with the ideals
of the Satanist, yet here we have a Fascist faction infecting a Satanic
organization.

What is to be done? The members must either take back the organization, or
they must accept the fact that their organization has been usurped and
conform to the new ideology for conform these Fascists surely try to make
you do! Or they separate themselves and form a new faction. Or they walk
away from the public movement all together. The question I put to the reader
is this: which action is the correct action? Only you can decide.

Let's Make History

Timothy Stewart Epperhart, SCS

(Keep in mind that he wrote this, and approved of this editing over the
phone, BEFORE he got any essays at all! So it seems Tim Stewart made up his
mind about it - as his lover Les Masters confirmed!)

**********

This following was some of Stewart's preliminary "email essay" method - to
ask questions and try to get answers. This was the FIRST that I, Tani
Jantsang, actually participated in his fascism project after hearing about
it from Stewart in a chatoom. Note he keeps referring to me as Mag. After
seeing what kind of mixed up whatever he was asking me (you can tell by what
I said to him) - I tried to get him actual ESSAYS, not question/answer junk.
He said he wanted essays. He didn't seem to know WHAT an essay was. It's
not question/answer by email.

Email interview with Tani Jantsang (COS honorary non-member Mag at the time)
and Tim Stewart, 2000:

Stewart asks: The reason I am asking these questions is that so you may
reply, so that the readers may actually understand if they too have some of
the same questions that I have, ok?

Answer from TJ: Sure, but I don't see what more there is to say here. Either
you put up with assholes or you don't. I'm not saying Nazis are assholes.
I'm saying that the Nazi or Fascist element in the COS that you dealt with
are assholes. Who doesn't know this? I got more complaints about it in 3
years (present date, 2000) than the COS has members. LOL. There are Nazis in
other Satanic organizations too: I have no idea if they are also assholes.

Stewart asks: Are they trying to destroy the CoS, and most importantly when
will these people come out of the closet and reveal themselves, or are they
right in front of our faces?

Answer from TJ: They? The Christian Coalition? The Christian Coalition is
not only in front of your face and our faces, but they got Jeb Bush, the
Governor of Florida, voted in despite Buddy McCay and others telling
everyone he was a Christian Fascist - something that Jeb Bush didn't even
bother to deny! In fact, that won Jeb Bush the Governorship! What I just
explained (initial letter in Part One) about the coalition of Christians
banded together is what they THEMSELVES constantly talk about with
admiration of their own success! It's no secret - it's not in any closet.
Anyone who is not aware of this LIVES in a closet! What do you think that a
coalition is? It is a FASCES. OK, what is a fasces? The image is of a bundle
of branches tied together. Imagine each Christian variation, each little
Christian church in every little town, is a branch, and other religions
(main ones, like Catholic and even some Jews) are other branches. Branches
are easy to break when they are single branches. COMBINE these branches into
one tight bunch and tie them together. Now you have something as strong as a
club: this is called a "fasces."* When the fasces is not branches, but is
organizations of many Christian organizations (which have many people in
them) - it's called a COALITION. Christian Coalition. Christian Fascism!
This is a correct term. (*Yeah, yeah, the Romans had this. The Huns and
Jenghis Khan also had it with arrows tied together representing ALL the
clans joined as one conquering force.) If you mean the people you've been
running into in the COS, they are out of the closet. Don't you read the
Black Flame? You talked to them and they were pretty open (albeit heavy
handed) about it. They are in front of your face, obviously.

Stewart asks: In the eighties, a great disdain grew over the flower power,
peace, love and dope mentality that persisted in the 1960's (This was also
evident in the CoS back then!) The symbolic representation could not, ever,
smash us real Satanists within -or- standing on the outside looking-into it.
Now, those on the outside looking in or on the inside looking outside could
very well be the problem presenting themselves in a position a great
hierarchy, a position of power and superiority which would catch the
attention of somebody that nobody in the COS wants to be involved with, but
in this case it is too late, but this can not be handled in terms of
Citizenship but it must be dealt with from the HP.

Answer from TJ: I have no idea if the HP is aware of factions within the
CoS, especially factions that want to MAKE the CoS into the NSWPP or KKK!
When LaVey became aware of a little bit of it, he threw some people out; he
threw Bruce Ithier out on his ass in 1976 or 1977 - Ithier was a total Nazi.
And Michael Aquino has a bunch of letters LaVey wrote him against these
types sneaking into the COS, he mentioned that on alt.satanism openly. We
couldn't get copies. But they are openly back in the CoS again and probably
in other organizations as well. I DO know that the real neo Nazis are aware
of it and they DO name names, and I doubt that the ADL or people like Morris
Dies are not aware of it. I think these would-be Nazis are a tiny minority
in the COS and possibly in other Satanic orgs, and some whole Satanic orgs
are openly Fascist as Ms. Selwyn explains and as many admit, but they are
VERY LOUD - they are NOT LONERS; they are attention seekers. See below for
comment on "druggie utopia culture."

(Note added after this conversation: Poor Stewart was asked to name names.
He's apparently afraid to. I'm not. OK: Logs exist of Jeff Nagy getting
caught pretending to be Liz Dictator talking to Iron Will saying that he
wants it all to be Fascist or Nazi - he doesn't know the difference. He
mentions some that are "with him" on this, KS Anthony is one mention and
Faustus Scorpius himself or www.november9.org names Moynihan and enough
others are named in articles written by the fascist faction themselves. All
dye hard foot stomping Nazis. That's cool, just FUCK OFF and don't bother
people who are Not Interested - something Ms. Liz Dictator Jeff Nagy didn't
understand when he shit disturbed and started a fight. We have printed the
Faustus Scorpius article here. Rumor has it that Chris Turner of
Conspiratorium is one of them, or so Stewart was told this)

Dealt with? The HP dealing with it? (I do have a knack for PHOPHECY heh
heh....) They'll deal with YOU, Stewart; you were already told to shut up
and watch out by more than one person. You were called a spy for hell's
sakes! Too bad you didn't log all of it save emails with full headers!

Stewart asks: It's also my understanding that wasn't the intentions to begin
with, an admiration for Charles Manson a Cultist who compelled people to
kill for him, and he also killed is a rather bit far fetched ESPECIALLY to
treat him as a gifted philosopher.

Answer from TJ: this was primarily the doing of Nikolas Schreck. Charlie
Manson was a loser and a misfit, and only the most uneducated of fools would
find merit in ANYTHING that man had to say. He should have simply and
quietly been put to death for his crimes. I remember back when it all
happened. Manson was a destructive person and IS NOW a parasite living the
high life in jail. Government should SHOOT HIM like a clay pigeon.

Stewart asks: One thing they do have a point is, he did fuck up their vivid
pipe dreams of a Utopia of a drug using society. Is that the point? No, he
killed people and USED these symbols, engraved them into his fore head and
all of a sudden he's some kind of "mascot for Satanism in the eighties"? or
mascot for Satanism in general. Explain that.

Answer from TJ: Charles Manson was a drug user himself. This is only the
idea of those who are completely unaware of the NON-drug activities and
tremendous things happening in the country back then. For some very strange
reason, the youth of THIS generation have a total lack of information about
these non-drug MAJOR happenings in the country! I find that remarkable. WHO
has kept this information from the youth of today? Major things happened in
the country that had nothing to do with drugs: the anti-war movement, the
Women's rights movement (not feminism), the alternative religion movement,
WHICH COS IS NOT ONLY INTRICATELY A PART OF BUT OWES ITS VERY EXISTENCE TO,
and the Gay and Black rights movements. None of these things involved drugs
or pipe dreams of a utopia. The hippie drug scene was mostly a pack of
Cultural Christians, spoiled little bourgeois brats with too much time on
their hands, or Drug Guru professors on the payroll of the CIA. They had NO
political awareness at all.

Stewart asks: The Government is in favor of the Christians already. Let the
churches pay taxes, see how fast the national debt would be wiped out. You
think they would be in favor of that? Hell no. And what would become of this
country if we put the Christians in more power, say, how long has it been
anyway since the last Inquisition? This is all covered in The First
Amendment, I protect that right, put them in more power and see, watch it
all just fade away like it never even... existed!

Answer from TJ: I was hoping that ALL Satanists already knew this fact!!! I
do believe that the Wiccan and Pagan communities know it all TOO well. Are
they more aware of the real world than Satanists are? And if they are: WHY?
Perhaps they are not the ones living in a pipe dream at all.

Stewart asks: So what if they do take the money raised the wages for the
working class as opposed to the industries that would get the profit. That's
their right to profit, how about this, shut down all the large industries
companies, have the working class lose all their jobs due to the fact that
the people who own these have no way of paying up due to the fact that his
money is going into paying the working class citizen 1 and 2 distributing
supplies, however not as many supplies, therefore not as much work FOR the
working class citizen.

Answer from TJ: lol - have you been reading Karl Marx? That COULD happen.
What would happen if it did? REVOLUTION!!! Have you ever lived through a
riot, gotten shot at by many bullets and shot people back? I have. It's NOT
fun. Understand something: these "big industries" are NOTHING without people
working IN them MAKING the junk they make and sell at HUGE profits - profits
they never share with the people who MADE the junk! They also get the metal
and petroleum for plastic parts and etc. from pure exploitation of 3rd world
labor and resources! It's a spiraling vortex of consumption. And when
overproduction crashes into underconsumption by people who can't afford to
buy the junk? That's a "crisis in capitalism." And when industries move away
to hire cheaper labor? What if those workers refuse to work? Nothing gets
made without the TOILING HANDS that make the junk. The industries are
NOTHING without the working classes! What good is a factory with equipment
and no one to work the equipment? And what good are millions of new cars if
no one buys them?

Stewart asks: So guess what, Mr. Pat Buchannan can go to Hell. I'm all in
favor for making work available for everybody that means everybody who has
the right toward advancement. "Every dog has it's day" and the Christians
had theirs, they fucked it up, they know. They bit the very hand that fed
them, the people, the individuals whom got slaughtered throughout the two
thousand centuries. It was illegal for Social Darwinism to be taught in
schools, in the twentieth century it persisted, remember the "Satanic Panic"
scare? They raided Aquino's house, looked throughout all of his personal
belongings, and even DARED to mention "his living room was painted black"
took him to court, what happened? They didn't have an inch of evidence
against him. And all this despite He is Not a Satanist! You know what that
is, that's self destruction. You spelled it out so everyone could hear, loud
and clear what a klippoth is. Just imagine how they'd react to the Real
Satanists!

Answer from TJ: there is no question here - I agree with the sentiment.
Social Darwinism is not an evolutionary biological reality. It is nothing
but a SOCIAL concept - it is pseudo-science! It is Darwin grossly
misinterpreted and taken outside of real biology. (Read a real biologist:
Niles Eldredge: "Redefining Darwin." He explains it all in simple words and
explains what "social" Darwinism is and how that pseudoscience came into
being.) Oh, Pat Buchannan is very pro labor for working class American
citizens, by the way. Aquino is a Satanist of another kind. And some of your
COS people actually blamed Michael Aquino for his own persecution regarding
Presidio. They called him by the names used in the Presidio case, and so
forth. One present COS member, formerly a TOS member who turned Catholic for
awhile (before joining the COS) even insisted that the SRA stories were
real. I saw some of this printed out, and heard about the rest of it where
they blamed Aquino for his own persecution. If I had been online at the
time, I'd have stuck up for Aquino as a HERO that fought for ALL of
Satanism, not just his TOS. He deserves a medal for it.

If you think raiding Dr. Aquino's house is an outrage - consider this: they
COULD raid your house, arrest you, hold you without bail and no avenue to
legal help. They COULD shoot you. They COULD give you a lobotomy or electro
shock therapy. They COULD torture you. They COULD. And in many many places
in the world - THEY DO. You know we chat with a fellow called SmokingMirror.
He mailed $100 in an envelope to the Church of Satan. The letter never left
Columbia. They came for him. They arrested him. They interrogated him. And
he can't leave unless the DAS (like our FBI) clears him of his CRIMINAL
RECORD. But what is Smoke's crime? He wrote to the Church of Satan. The
police there COULD have shot him. They could have done anything they wanted
to do. What did the COS do? They treated Smoke like a pariah, like they
treatred you. He's not afraid to say "to hell with that." He washed his hand
of them. Get that through your heads. The Christian Coalition is a reality -
they are POWERFUL and they aim to take over this government. And what would
they want to make here? Christian Fascism. WAKE UP! (I betcha they don't
wake up.....) Let them find any excuse to reinstate the old Co-intel-pro and
heh, they'll do it in a minute, and it will be worse with the technology we
have today.

Stewart says: Again, here this is not a very surprising thing to me, not at
all. As for Jeb Bush winning despite the fact he wouldn't bother denying,
what is there to deny when there is nothing. Fact is, as long as we are the
Minority, and the Christian Coalition is in power we can't do anything About
it. The people voted for him, the herd minded fools who swarm like viscous
bees protecting their Queen. And in this case they did just that. What can
we do about that? Mag. Tani Jantsang has mentioned in her article "Mastering
Satanism" that they are in fact Satanic organizations, this cannot be
doubted, and not even in the least it's seriousness.

Answer correcting his misconception (lol, inside joke): These are not
Satanic organizations. They are Christian organizations but they no longer
represent the majority of their own Christian people. That does not mean
they are Satanic. They aren't. If the lay Christians, the hard working
honest Christian people, knew what these organizations were up to, they'd
call them traitors to the USA. They won't get hip to it, they'll be duped
and follow along with it.

Stewart continues: The significance is founded those who would disorient us
and weave their way into "the established system" and cause all of the
trouble they can, and even perhaps use controversies to attract attention.
Indeed, Satanism is a controversy, but is it a controversy in the form of
burning churches down, proclaiming that one race is more "strong" then the
other and what is strong, how could those foolish ingrates have
misinterpreted "Might is Right" by the Honorable Ragner Redbeard. Right is
Right, and reason is in season for every last individual who thinks they can
tear down the Infernal Empire upon which the Doktor Anton Szandor LaVey
founded, dumb founded dip shits scurry about in their herd, there Fasces,
and right wing political movements- and What do they know about US anyway?
The controversy? I'll tell you right now what controversy is, controversy is
murdering over a five thousand or more people for the sake of religion for
the mistake that many have misinterpreted "Might" over the last 2000
years!!! The "controversy" isn't found in these so called impotent Magical
symbols, if they ever were Magical symbols, and they were used for that
specific belief that revolves and encircles it then it very well is not
controversy! No! No! No! It is wrong if it is to be used for that specific
purpose, "Behold the cross, what does it represent: Pallid incompetence
hanging on a tree" and as long as their incompetence reins, not much can be
done about it. Eat it out like Cancer, exterminate them, and every Fascist
Satanic individual will be, and might be Might, but it certainly will never
be Left, nor right nor anything in between the two. Yes, it will be under a
right wing mentality, a Christian mentality, Genocide, getting it?
Inquisition? The riddle isn't that hard to answer, you would have to be
stupid not to see that, and stupidity should-be-painful. And in their case,
self-destruction, it is, and will be. The Governor of Florida flourishes on
what is Might, he thrives upon their very existence, the only thing there is
left to do is ADVANCE, advancement is the key, and the combination to open
it is different for every person, the postulate is undefiled Power,
Undefiled Wisdom and most importantly the use of our First Amendment right
that we all have to exorcise in order to advance and it's up to you if you
would like to open that door, but never Misplace the key.

Answer from TJ: And if We The People (the majority) have no clue what the
Amendments are? Then We The People will be duped, deceived and not even know
what we have given up. Remember: "IT" can happen here too. Americans are far
too comfortable in America to REALIZE that. That is why I occasionally post
a sarcastic post saying something like "Pat Robertson SHOULD WIN" which is
in effect saying that I'm HAILING the Christian Coalition's most FANATICAL
faction! I PERSONALLY would stand nothing to lose if he did win - AND TAKE
OVER. All that would be needed is to fabricate an emergency (Islamic
terrorist bombing, or linking "ALL the Negroes" to Islamic terrorism - a
good excuse to round them all up, something like that, Islamic terrorists
sneaks in posing as a Mexican illegal alien, etc.), and declare a State of
Emergency: in which case the President of the USA BECOMES a dejure
DICTATOR - DEJURE!. But the great majority of people in the COS? What would
they lose? Ha Ha Ha. Everything.

Stewart comments on previous reply: So what your saying makes sense in terms
of these individuals having a Fasces, yes, however it must be understood
that a lot of Christians can't even agree with each other most of the time,
and when they aren't arguing what "path" leads to Heaven or Hell, I can see
this type of thing happening.

Answer from TJ: RUBBISH! These are trivial disagreements on spiritual
matters. They DO FOLLOW THEIR LEADERS AND DO AS THEY ARE TOLD: GOOD SHEEP!
And what their leaders are preaching has NOTHING to do with heaven or hell -
OR Jesus! It's MIGHT MAKES RIGHT! Brute Force. Take Over. FIND ME the
Fundamentalist Christian that truly believes in heaven, hell, the soul and
Armageddon who DOES NOT put money in his flesh and blood 4 year old's
worldly bank account for that kids FUTURE worldly college education! HA! So
much for the spirit.

Stewart continues on previous reply: The Catholic Church is trying to do
exactly that, right now, however, I do not think it is going to happen where
it got so bad where I couldn't get a job and pay my bills on time, and most
importantly live a Satanic lifestyle.

Answer from TJ: I hope these don't serve to be famous last words!

Stewart continues on previous reply: But Magistra Jantsang does have a
highly valid point, in which every Satanist should take note of the Highly
valued essay entitled "Mastering Satanism" which gets into how Satanic
Organizations in this day and age are being surrounded, it's called
Christian Encirclement. This is hardly a joke and I feel that essay should
be a must read for those Satanists reading this article.

Answer from TJ: Dream on. Most of those preaching this fascist rubbish never
even read the hallmark article Roots One of Satanism, nor have they read
Evolution Christians and Setians. They don't want to KNOW anything at all.
They want to Play Fascist. They HATE our Satanic stuff and think that the
respect we EARNED came from the mere commentary polemic on HrVad's website
(sentences and paragraphs, replied to queries, stuck together). It didn't.
Why do they dislike us? Because we refute all they are: we refute Cruxtoids.
These morons, even the best of them, don't realize that they are thoroughly
in tune with the HERD REACTION to liberal draconian FASCIST tyranny
previously forced on the nation in certain areas of social life (not all
areas) - forced - why? in order to CAUSE this easily predicted reaction?
They are such PUPPETS yet they have no clue who their puppet masters are?
They don't even realize they are being manipulated! That's pretty pathetic!
The holders of the strings PULL and they REact. They are thoroughly IN TUNE
with the mass herd reaction right now: AND too stupid to even realize it.
And LIKE the herd, which needs religious justification or pseudo-scientific
justification, they are having delusions about hierarchies in nature!
IDIOTS! STUPID! In which case, I HOPE ROBERTSON WINS - just so that I may
see these idiots languish in concentration camps. I'd even volunteer for the
job of guard, praising JEEEEEEzuus all the way. As a Serpent, I'm thoroughly
in favor of GIVING Adam just what he wants: APPLES - i.e., a CURSE upon his
generations. Shit, I'd BUY a gas chamber and rent it out cheap.

Stewart asks: I do understand that, but what I'm trying to say is there is a
very high chance that could happen. Take away the money that would usually
go into paying the people who make the products for the people who make the
goods, take away their power, where do they go, they go to where to profit
is, why, because there's not as much money involved. On the other hand if we
would lower the rate, make living a little simpler for the working citizen,
then yeah, however the construction of houses wouldn't be a very popular
endeavor if they wouldn't get paid as much as they do now. They get paid
good money. And so do those who are getting a profit, who never share the
money, but again, that is their right toward advancement, in that system
there should never even be any people holding other people down, because
when you hold it down, that's not going to erase the problem. Because if you
put that ONE industry over power of everything else, and that is where the
profit is, what happens if they are a Christian? How many active Christians
are there today? Have I ever lived through a riot? I have never even seen a
riot, riot is anarchy, pure anarchy, and even in without a Government the
Herd will still need something to stand by. We have a government, they have
something to stand by, however the government is not standing by them- The
Atheists and every single alternative religious creed will be on them, and
they would never hear the end of it, and that is good. Hey, they're standing
behind us, the Satanic, the Wiccan, the Pagan, the Atheist, the philosopher,
the... Whatever! You get the idea. What the problem here is, is that
regardless of this fact we are still the minority, and while they might not
have that much power over us, they will continually try, oh, they will try,
they'll try until they get blue in the face, and in some cases they have
one, the anti abortionists fuck'n bomb the Abortion Clinics 'cause they feel
what they believe is "right" Pro Life? Yeah, whatever, Life is made of all
kinds of different and difficult choices; the ones who are doing this aren't
even a problem! The ones with political pull are. And I'm not just talking
about the abortion issue either, I'm talking about The Christian Coalition
and Encirclement, and how some people fail to recognize these people by
their own true faces.

Answer to this sort of incoherent statement: you need to learn more about
economic realities. Money always manages to go AWAY from the workers who
produce everything - and it ends up in the bank accounts of those who
produce NOTHING - either those at the top that "own a building and hire
workers to work in it" or those kept on the bottom - the underclasses. When
times get tight, the working class has an easy scapegoat: the underclasses -
the parasites. Yet the BIG Parasite McDonald's in one year gets more welfare
than ALL the single welfare mothers put together - and that's only one
company. Corporate welfare is hidden - but the welfare queen is very
visible - an easy target. This is getting way off the topic of Satanism and
"fascist ideals."

TJ: Look, END of dialogue. This is impossible. Your questions are hard to
unravel. How about you just get ESSAYS from people? Let people just write
essays instead of this question and answer thing.

[Part of this was also posted to alt.satanism by Tim Wolf At Hart Citizen
Stewart].

**********

SATANISM, NAZISM AND FASCISM, BY PEGGY NADRAMIA (Tim had this essay) (1999
or before, Stewart did see this.)

The last time I talked to Boyd, we discussed our Barbie collections. Some
Nazi.

Here's how Nazism and fascism fit into Satanism, as I see it:

1. You're already a Satanist, the most evil being the status quo could ever
imagine. Why the hell do you care if they call you a Nazi? Is there a Good
Guy Badge stuck to one of your old suits? Go check your closet.

2. Nazism scares people. Satan scares people. Some Satanists like to scare
people, so they dress in Nazi fashion and have fun goose-stepping down the
strasse. B.F.D. [BFD = Big Fucking Deal. ed.]

3. Satanists see nature as a dark force, a very fascist force, within them
and without them. When you hear them talking about fascism, they are often
thinking of what I can only call "deep fascism," not political fascism. I
agree with the assertion that a Libertarian society would be the best one
for Satanists, from a political perspective, but we also have a lot of
opinions about the social structure of a Satanic society. Would we be "free"
to enslave ourselves to each other, if that's how we wanted to live? While
Libertarianism might rule the land, Satanists may choose to live in tribal
settings that are internally very Communistic or Socialistic. For example, I
wouldn't mind "working for the good of others" as long as the "others" were
of my choosing, my tribe of loved ones.

4. Nazism, like the image of the Arch Demon, appeals to the young because it
embodies strength and control to those who have little of either in their
lives. They'll get over it.

5. It's a fashion trend.

6. "The plague of Nazism" is being trumped-up by those who would choose to
drive a wedge between us, disperse us and weaken us. Don't let them do it.
Lighten up.

**********

Essay from Norma Gomez: "Morganne" (COS active member or Priestess? and
Grotto Master). 2000 (She resigned around 2004 after the incident with Rev.
Blumenthal and the info that he was previously convicted of child
molestation before LaVey handed him a Priesthood in the COS - and was now
again convicted, and in jail. She resigned due to other factors also, not
sure what.)

Satanic Value in Fascism?

The issue has arisen among Satanists of the possible role fascism might play
in the satanic philosophy of the Church of Satan. Fascist emblems employed
by certain individual Satanists have moved some to consider and others to
criticize the validity behind associating the two ideologies with one
another. Yet it is first necessary to define terms before attempting to
wrestle with the matter any further. Those terms, of course, are Satanism
and Fascism.

For the Satanist, there is no need to define the first term since anyone who
has read the works of Anton LaVey and agrees with its principles will for
the most part stand on common ground with his diabolical compatriots.

As to the meaning of the second term, however, Satanists might perceive its
ideology in different ways. The first step I believe will be to establish
what fascism is and secondly, to determine if there is any chemistry between
it and the philosophy of Anton LaVey.

The word Fasces gives us our present day word Fascism. A Fasces was the
ancient Roman symbol of official authority and power. It was represented by
an axehead enveloped by a bundle of elm or birch rods, bound together by a
red strap.

Here is the key: Official authority, not individual autonomy. The definition
of fascism's political ideology that I am most familiar with describes it as
one of supremacy of the state over the individual, the latter only finding
purpose and self-fulfillment through absolute obedience to the present
ruling power, usually a dictator. Sexual activity for one's own pleasure is
not encouraged , but only as it serves the purposes of the state. Every
system of thought which has sought to control the minds of the people such
as Christianity, Communism, Islam, etc., has employed like restrictions on
humanity's greatest pleasure. This allows those in power to exploit pent up
sexual energies for their own machinations by channeling those energies into
state approved functions. Military values are highly lauded, but not for
personal glory as one would find, say, among the American Indians, but
rather a bloodlust for victory for one's own nation and race at the expense
if necessary of one's own life. Cosmopolitan ideals, self-aggrandizement and
rationalism are discouraged as decadent and valueless.

Even the most superficial overview of the philosophy of the Church of Satan
and that of fascism must inevitably arrive at the logical conclusion that
the two ideologies in their essential essence are completely incompatible.
LaVey spoke of a joyous life lived through self realization through one's
own efforts and freedom achieved through the questioning of those values
idolized by both church and state. Fascism only allows joy and self
realization in service to the nation state.

Should America ever become a totalitarian state, and it shows much promise
in this direction through recent ominous developments in the War on Drugs,
and this countries continual efforts at censorship of the arts and
encouragement of ultra patriotism, it would certainly display less, not more
tolerance towards Satanism than the present semi-democracy does today. The
best case scenario would find Satanist's driven underground for fear of
unbearable legal and social reprisals as they would no longer have the first
constitutional amendment to offer any protection as we ... barely....have
today. The worst case scenario would reveal every openly displayed Baphomet
behind barbed wire.

The next logical question then would be, what attraction does fascism or
national socialism as it was called in Hitler's Germany, hold for certain
Satanist's? Whereas totalitarian political philosophies have as much in
common with Satanism as do Christianity, Humanism, Communism, and any other
self debasing school of thought, there may be ironically enough, certain
Satanic applications of Fascist symbolism and peripheral accoutrements which
might have a certain validity for some. For instance, LaVey spoke of certain
objects as having a "Satanic look" about them, a car might look satanic, or
perhaps a house. Many people have commented favorably on the sharp
appearance of Germany's second World War uniforms. They were, of all the
uniforms of all the nations of the World, perhaps the most Satanic in
appearance. Fascism is often accompanied by racial supremacist views. In
American culture, where the white male is sometimes openly vilified as the
oppressor, employing the imagery of white pride through a swastika may serve
as a counter-balance to the hysterical anti-racist rhetoric of the political
left-wing. Another possible undercurrent of shock value may be attractive to
some. Many Satanist's thrive on shocking our prim and proper polite society
and certainly this can be accomplished through the emblems of Nazism. There
is also the possibility that some Satanist's extract from Fascism the
concept of strong central authority and discard the rest. One envisions here
the policies of Niccolo Machiavelli as a Satanic political guideline.

To reiterate, there might be certain ways I have just mentioned in which the
frills of totalitarian government may be used in a somewhat Satanic fashion,
yet this is a far cry from wedding that ideology to that of Anton LaVey's.
Concerning philosophies compatible with those of the Church of Satan I would
rather look to the existentialist such as Nietzsche & Camus, as examples of
de-facto satanic philosopher's. In summation, my position is that the images
of Fascism offer an immediate and superficially sinister first impression
but have really little to do with Satanic values.

Personally, I would distance myself from all the extreme right wing
symbolism as it will only confuse others and give people the wrong idea
concerning what Satanist's are about or where we are coming from. If I tried
hard enough and let my sense of discrimination slumber, I could probably
find something Satanic to extract from even Christianity itself, but that
would be frivolous and would associate me with something that I am
ultimately opposed to, and so what would be the value in that?

Norma J. Gomez

**********

This is from more questions Stewart emailed to Casey, Ole and others - and
the replies of everyone else that Stewart sent the questions to with the
replies separated into just who said what to whom:

----------

From Casey Ley "OneDarkness" replying to emails Stewart sent her. (Stewart's
questions are in quotes and "Stewart said" preceeds his questions. The rest
is from Casey Ley. (Staunch independent at the time, now in SR)

Stewart said: -"First, as we start the analysis of the ideal of Fascism
within the satanic movement...."-

Casey: These two words together "Fascism, Satanism" are an oxymoron. The two
are at opposite ends of a spectrum, not as any yin/yang, but opposite in the
sense that they completely cancel each other out.

Casey: Some background: Satanism has at its heart the perfect ideal of
Darkness. The Yin that became. As it became, it stretched forth. In its
stretching, it created. What it created was a Light born of Darkness, a
Bright Darkness, or "The Black Flame." The Darkness possesses itself and is
whole. The Light is made manifest FROM Darkness and is only whole while it
PARTAKES of Darkness. The two together are the Yin/Yang of existence. The
two together are the "Creation" we know. The two together, like everything
whole, share in and make manifest the "Will" of "Creation." That is, UNITED
with Darkness, the Light (Black Flame, in this context) is a creative Force.
Can there be Yin alone? Yes. Darkness was before, is now and will be after.
Darkness is ALWAYS capable of "Becoming" something different. It is the
Ultimate source of ALL that is. It can be said that Darkness IS all that is,
for with out it, there is NOTHING. Yang, on the other hand, ONLY exists as a
PART of a whole. Without its progenitor (Darkness) it has no place in
"Creation." Lacking a root in Darkness, the Light becomes a LIE. It is cold,
brittle, barren and dead. Is it still Light? Yes, but now it is a FALSE
Light, and is CONSUMMED by the awareness that it is OTHER THAN Darkness.
Unlike Light united with Darkness, which can be said to prize diversity
above all else and Wills toward Diversity (which is the will of Creation),
this False Light seeks, and Wills toward, the destruction of Diversity and
the psuedo-creation of sameness. In doing so, it is said to be at war with
What Is.

Casey: Fascism (the INNER REALITY, not the political ideal), having its
genesis in the Light ALONE, is diametrically opposed to the ideals of
Satanism. Hence, the fascist ideal has NO PLACE within the Satanic Ideal.

Stewart said: . "Of course the assertion made by Magistrate Nadramia in her
applaudable speculation of the similarities between the both parties are
noted and should be viewed for further historical, relevant data on the
research at hand."

Casey: If Magistra Nadramia thinks the two are in ANY WAY similar, Magistra
Nadramia is WRONG. See above. Magistra Nadramia also referred to the Dark
Force as a "very fascist force." WHAT? What kind of nonsense is that?
Magistra Nadramia is talking about politics (which she is not familiar
with), economics (which she is not familiar with) and the Dark Force (which
she also was not familiar enough with to argue and state what she meant to
the Temple of Set not so long ago.) A "fascist force?" Even atoms don't fit
that definition. Nor do space and time. The only thing that fits that
definition is a tree full of monkeys. The Dark Force in Nature is not even
any of the forces known in physics, nor can you use physics to formulate it
(you need the 2nd and 3rd "Laws" of Entropy to do that - and that's not even
physics). It is not fascist in any sense of the word: IT STANDS ALONE,
SOLITARY, UNIQUE and, to date- NOT FULLY UNDERSTOOD! I cite for proof this
article on this URL written by P. Marsh and J. Mengele (a Russian
neurotoxicologist - and active member of the COS).
http://www.apodion.com/vad/dark/entropy_tech.shtml

Stewart mentioned: "In any case the Fascist, AKA Nazi....."

Casey: It has been said before. but I will say it again, the NAZI Party was,
politically, a NATIONAL SOCIALIST movement, the German WORKER'S Party.
Mussolini was the Fascist.

Stewart said: "The Fascists and Nazis politically believed in terminating a
weaker race in the case of WWII this was the Jewish Race, who's thought to
be a religion in some cases however scientists can now read by gene analysis
that is and what is not Jewish."

Casey: Another history lesson: Germans hated Jews because the Jews got the
best jobs (they were better qualified). Germans hated Jews because they had
a great deal of wealth (they had better jobs, and they worked harder).
Germans hated Jews because they were better educated (they were smarter).
Germans hated Jews because Germans were stupid, poor and starving. Germans
hated Jews because Germans saw the Jews as becoming too powerful and
manipulating the course of the German Nation. The cream, in other words, was
rising to the top. WHO was the weaker race? And let's not forget the Slavs,
also considered sub-human by the Nazi Party. Then there were the
homosexuals. Then there were the Gypsies, etc, etc. This is INTERNAL
Fascism-"They're different from us....let's kill them."

Stewart said: "The best diagnosis they know possible for the stratification
that they seek could be found in an ideal level of the most omnipotent
political statement; this was Fascism. This Was Nazism."

Casey: That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but based on what I think you
mean: Germany HAD stratification BEFORE the Nazis rose up. The Germans wound
up on the bottom and they didn't like it. Stratification was NOT what they
were looking for. They sought the elimination of stratification via the
destruction of everything determined "detrimental" to the German State. (If
you think this makes them superior, consider that if a marauding band of
baboons were to assault a bunch of humans, they'd inflict a lot of damage.
And if you put a gorilla in the ring with a human, the human will lose.)

Stewart said: "But, the ideal was founded upon certain magical meanings
behind the ancient symbols involved. That, are looked upon as being "Evil"
like the Sigil of Baphomet the Swastika was considered to be a very
atrocious thing, the meanings though, are different, regardless of Herd
Misconceptions."

Casey: The swastika is as old as writing. It was NOT perceived as evil until
AFTER Hitler shit all over it.

Casey: Now that the background is out of the way, let's get down to it.

Casey: The COS, first of all, is a CHURCH, not a country; right away we know
that we are not dealing with "political theory." All that leaves us with is
the manifestation of an inner state in it's members. The irony of Stewart's
question is that there are INDEED similarities between the COS Fascist
faction's INNER Fascism and the Fascism perceived in the NSDAP. The Nazi
party was a party OPENLY formed to bolster the self worth of a flagging,
LOSING and WEAK people. The INNER Fascism at work in the COS is of the same
brand, only its adherents want us to believe that they espouse this doctrine
not out of weakness but, rather, out of a position of strength. The Germans
of the early 20th century were IN REALITY a beaten down, starving people.
The fascist element of the COS is a group JUST as beaten down and JUST as
starving; the only difference is that their agony is INTERNAL agony. They
are not a nation forced to pay crippling reparations, as was Germany after
WWI. They are not a Nation with no National economy to speak of, as was
Germany. The fascist faction of the COS, and, indeed, MOST of the LOSERS who
espouse Fascism as a way of life do so out of their own INNER feelings of
barrenness and lack of worth. They seek to bolster their self worth by
identifying with something they perceive as "powerful." Well, FOOLED AGAIN.
Fascism is the reaction of the WEAK against domination by the STRONG and
ABLE. Hardly a reaction worthy of the "Alien Elite." Or the "Aryan Elite,"
for that matter. It's a POWER TRIP, pure and simple. Not to mention the hard
on they get from jack boots. Gimme a break.

Casey: I still don't understand how ANYONE could make the mistake of
thinking that Satanism has ANYTHING in common with Fascism. Does it have
anything in common with the COS? ABSOLUTELY. Whiny little nothings who get
off on the "elite" bullshit are PRECISELY the kind of people this DRIVEL
appeals to. It's like "bait for klippoths." Just advertise that you are an
organization of the Elect of God (it doesn't matter which god) or the Alien
Elite - it's the same thing.

Casey: For the one millionth time: DO NOT make the mistake of thinking that
the COS in ANY WAY defines the term "Satanism." It DOES NOT. That would be
like saying "Baptist" defines Christianity. I know some fine Christians. I
know some fine members of the COS. It has been my experience, however, that
BOTH are dominated by the whiny, shrieking worthless scum of the order.
Interesting how they both turn to fascism, whether they are Baptists of
COSsers, wouldn't you say?

As Ole said, "The cause of effect of a war against life is a war against
life. That is, fascism is a war against life."

Casey: He hit the nail on the head. The Satanism of the COS is predicated on
the works of ASL. ASL said that a Satanist was a person who could FEEL the
Dark Force in Nature. Fascism has NOTHING of the Darkness within it. How
then can it (in LaVeyan terms) be in ANY WAY Satanic?

Casey Ley

----------

From Ole Wolf

Fascism, if anything, is counter-individualistic save perhaps to the one
that rules. What are the odds that you'll be the one that rules? They're
less than one in a million, so what kind of fool would ever support fascism?
Consider this: if I'm employed, it means I'm working. Although I might not
agree with socialist philosophy (at all), if I support socialists, I
actually come out stronger because of trade unions, work regulations forced
onto employers, etc. As an individual, I gain from being (or at least
seeming to be) a socialist. If Satanism represents your gaining personal
advantages at the expense of the herd, socialism is more Satanic in deed
than fascism!

If anyone told me I'd be bestowed with some advantages just because a
governmental system changed to fascism, I'd think that person was a fool.
Besides, such a statement is very similar to the Christian persuasion that
if you accept the supreme God, you will go to paradise. But you won't get
there alive.

--Ole Wolf

----------

Casey Ley again, citing other respondents (whose words are in quotations):

TJ Said: "Fascism is NOT EVEN of the light (Black FLAME). It's the light
ALONE - NO darkness at all."

Casey: See, this has been my problem with this WHOLE discussion. This
"faction" keeps getting looked at and talked about on a COMPLETELY outer
level...i.e. their politics, their clothing, etc. While some of the things
written during this discussion have been both interesting and well said,
it's not and never has been, a political question. It, like EVERYTHING else,
is an outward manifestation of an inner state of being. I don't care about
what someone says their political beliefs are, any more than I care what
someone says their "religion" is. All these things are window dressings for
the ONLY thing that is real about Anything: BEING.

Casey: Fascism, as a WAY OF LIFE, not a theoretical principle, is DEVOID of
Being. How ANYONE could ever mistake it for anything even remotely Satanic
is so far beyond me as to inspire a headache.

Casey: Satanism IS Being, Fascism is NON Being. Satanism is that which IS;
Fascism is that which STRIVES to BE, but NEVER IS. Satanism is born from an
ALL LIVING Darkness, Fascism is the poisonous spawn of a brittle, dead FALSE
LIGHT. Satanism is the unfettered JOY of Being, Fascism is the
forever-chained DENIAL OF LIFE, and that is REPRESSION.

Casey: I DO NOT understand why/how ANYONE who CLAIMS to be satanic can be
confused on this point.

Casey: As to COS Fascists: Doc said that a Satanist is anyone who FEELS the
Dark Force in Nature. Does it not follow that anyone who DOES NOT is NOT a
Satanist? NO ONE who does feel it is CAPABLE of LIVING as a fascist.
Masquerading, sure, especially to save their neck if they live in a fascist
society. But BEING a Fascist? IMPOSSIBLE.

Casey: Fascism is the same tired shit all over again: oh LOOK, more
klippoths. More sun cult pieces of shit. More of the same "Light Alone"
CRAP. Same song, four hundred and fifteenth verse. NOTHING that is lacking
in Darkness is Satanic. Fascism has NOTHING of the Darkness in it. ERGO? It
IS NOT Satanic. WHERE is the debate in that???? And WHY does it KEEP getting
debated EVERY TIME these people show up in a new outfit?

TJ asked: "I'm trying to figure out the "Freudian" connection - is there
something about that word? Fasces = Feces they feel like shit so they
wannabe Lords over others. They are anal compulsive as hell and totally into
the "dictator" thing, which they use to create an overbearingly suffocating
and repressive atmosphere. Hitler = Hit Her? Shitler? The fascist faction is
ALSO into dominance and submission, sado-masochism not just overtly but also
in a very "controlled" = repressed form. They are anal compulsive people."

Casey: No, I don't think it's the word. It's an IMAGE that appeals to pent
up pieces of shit that never got off. And THAT IS Freudian.

Ole Wolf said previously to TJ's question: "I don't think there's a
"Freudian" thing about fascism in that it sounds like some anal retentive
obsession. Fascism goes in lock-step with authoritarian, sexual repression,
which may be the "Freudian" part of it. So, try this instead: The cause and
result of fascism is fascism. In turn, fascism arises from sexual
repression. The cause and result of sexual repression is sexual repression.
In turn, sexual repression arises from the inability to live freely. The
cause and result of the inability to live freely is the inability to live
freely. In turn, the inability to live freely arises from a war against
life. The cause of effect of a war against life is a war against life. That
is, fascism is a war against life."

Casey: EXACTLY. Somebody explain to me how that can be confused with
Satanism?????

Casey: In reality, what happened in Nazi Germany was stratification turned
inside out, turned upside down on its head. Superior people, superior in ALL
ways that had already risen to the top in what was pretty much a "free
market" were beaten down by monkeys. They were considered DEMONIC! Consider
that.

----------

From Ole to second response from Stewart:

Stewart said: "Also it must be highly noted the appointed person in power
who was a Fascist and had Sexist ideals set forth an out-right ban upon
everything that was birth control related due to the indiscriminate fact
that at that point in time it was something put out to the effect of: "Women
must return under the subjection of man-father or husband-and must recognize
therefore her own spiritual, cultural, and economic inferiority."----

Ole: And whether you like it or not, authoritarian rulership REQUIRES
subjugation of the female sex who would otherwise tend towards peaceful
existence. Sexual oppression-especially against females-is not propaganda
against fascism; it is a prerequisite of fascism. Religion is a perfect tool
for sexual subjugation and oppression.

Ole: The desire to control sexual activity is a fascist tendency; it is not
a question of being a fascist and a sexual idealist "as well."

Ole: Compare with matriarchal societies, where fascistoid concepts are
unheard of until patriarchal rulership is introduced... and with that,
religion.

Stewart said: "The assertion made by the people that we are seeing now,
protesting that Doktor LaVey had such ideals,----"

Ole: And they'd have been RIGHT IF Doctor had been promoting fascism.
Whenever someone hails fascism to the skies, they're right that THEY have
those ideals.

Stewart said: "....he had inspired women, at their own objection, to make
their own choices, and gave them postulates that bewitch men in their
tracks,----"

Ole: Didn't you read The Satanic Witch? It is all about techniques on using
Cruxtoid men to obtain what you want as a woman.

Ole: Forcing a dress code onto women (which Doctor didn't-he plainly listed
techniques for manipulating broken men, not stating a dress code) is
equivalent to forcing women to cover their faces insofar as the natural body
isn't accepted. In that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE between forcing a
"witchy" dress code onto females, forcing them to cover their faces, and
cutting off their clitorises. That's not necessarily the same as telling
them that men can me manipulated if they (the females, not the men) wear
sexy shoes, which (hopefully) was what Doctor was doing.

Stewart said: "....not that they were of inferior quality but because they
were superior in the sense that he admitted that they also had power over
him.----"

Ole: True. And any female has power over any male, but not in the TSW sense.
The TSW techniques draw on oppressed instincts while the kind of power I'm
talking about is a raw desire to procreate.

Stewart said: "As far as I have heard or have seen it has not come to my
attention that such things are existent.----"

Ole: Some of them are-Doctor wrote TSW. And as soon as someone argues that
Doctor was promoting fascist ideals, the same person will also be arguing
that Doctor was promoting (in an inner sense) sexual oppression and female
subjugation.

Stewart said: "And if they are, they are founded upon misconceptions of
their very own inferior pseudo-satanic quality,----"

Ole: Yes, and especially upon the misconceptions by those fascistoids that
think they agree with Doctor, not those that try to attack the CoS with the
"you're fascists" line. At least the latter ones KNOW they want to attack
the CoS while the fascistoids provide them with an ample supply of ammo.

--Ole Wolf

**********

From Faust (Ben Schultz, COS member)

In answer to the question of is fascism satanic, I would voice a resounding
NO!

As everyone knows, "Satan is the first rebel." And it is this image of Satan
as the adversary, the questioner, that we, as Satanists, try to emulate.

Those people who claim to be Satanic and preach fascism ALWAYS see
themselves as members of the elite group at the top of the social food
chain. They seek to dominate others to compensate, most likely, for their
own failings in life. They constantly search outside the self for the
answers to their woes. They force responsibility for their short comings on
a group of people that they perceive to have wronged them. That makes these
fascists un-satanic.

I have yet to hear one of these closet Christians say, "We need to set up a
government that will force people to do things against their will, assume
ownership of their property, and conscript the citizenry to serve in a fight
& die for the perceived destiny of those in power. BUT, I don't want to be
in that power group. Sign me up for extermination or forced labor camps. I
want to be the unarmed soldier serving as cannon fodder in the war against
my own people."

It has become a mechanism for survival of the current regime to portray
Satanists in Nazi garb to equate these two ideals. They learned a lesson
from the cold war that few people did: "When the outer enemy has been
vanquished, the citizens seeks the enemy within." ( The current state of our
national identity is proof of this.) As soon as the masses stop looking to
us as an adversary, they will have nothing to do but focus on those who hold
power within our government. Then they will have no choice but to see the
real harm the Christian Coalition and other such groups are doing.

For example, gun control. Everyone agrees illegal guns are bad. But the
fascist leaders in this country have used this to advocate the restriction
of legal weapons.

Ben, Mr_Faust

When Caesar said of Cassius, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." It
was not to warn that education was dangerous, but that a lack of knowledge
was.

**********

FASCISM AND THE SO-CALLED OCCULT, BY PHILIP MARSH (Cos Honorary (non-member)
Magister)

Fascism, which is often thought to include the historic National Socialist
movement of the German Workers' Party (NSDAP), at least in its latter,
deteriorating stages, is a word often used and meant now to include forms of
political regime like that of Benito Mussolini of Italy, and Francisco Fanco
of Spain. Unlike Marxism, fascism involved no clear or specific
interpretation of history, nor any systematic interpretation of ideology,
which makes commentary upon this subject difficult. In every case of
fascism, however, there was a clear negative reaction against socialist and
democratic equalitarianism (equal rights as citizens, equal chances for all
regardless of gender or race). In general, there was a strong fear, by both
fascist and National Socialist leaders, like Adolf Hitler, of revolution,
subsequent chaos, anarchy, and general insecurity. Pride and prejudice,
exploiting vulgar anti-Semitism, were appealed to by National Socialist and
fascist leaders, which is hardly Satanic. In essence, every fascist and
National Socialist movement, including that of the NSDAP, has appealed to
law, order, and Christian morality, no matter how you look at it. The
glorification of the state, and the subordination of the individual to the
state, are of its essence as well - again, hardly Satanic. The credo of all
forms of fascism is "believe, obey, fight." This is diametrically opposed to
the credo of Satanism, which has the exact opposite credo: "doubt, rebel,
make love."

There is a false version of Darwinism involved in National Socialist
doctrine. This is the idea that an individual bears the genetic imprint of
superiority by being a member of a specific race, in particular, the "Aryan"
race. I believe there are inherently Satanic individuals, but they, as a
group, by no means coincide with members of the so-called Aryan race. LaVey
himself, at least part Jew and definitely not Aryan, said that Satanists and
Jews have been almost automatically aligned throughout history, so
anti-Semitic movements like that of Adolf Hitler's are not likely to be
Satanic. Or else LaVey was wrong on this, as I do not think he was.

Undoubtedly the elitist bent of National Socialist movements has captured
the imagination of superficial, present-day, American "Satanists." Not only
this, but it is known that an inner core of the Thule Gesellchaft (Society)
attended a famous historic meeting of Hitler's German Workers' Party to take
a look at Hitler. The inner circle of this Thule group did indeed espouse
"Satanism" and practice ritualistic "Black Magic." But in reality, these
personages were not allied with the dark forces, as was LaVey, but rather
were died-in-the-wool proponents of the Theosophy of Madame Blavastsky. I
challenge anyone reading this to refute historically what I am saying.
Blavatsky was, in fact, an advocate of the forces of light. (Nothing wrong
with that.) In fact, the swastika itself, appealing to Blavatsky, to
so-called "Satanists" of the Third Reich, and to their modern day
aficionados who consider themselves "Satanists," is a symbol of the light,
not of the dark, as the pentacle is. Almost any symbol based on four points
or four-fold symmetry instead of five is a symbol of cosmos, not of the
great dark which, as Goethe's character Mephistopheles said, once was All.
Likewise, the well-known lightning bolt of Himmler's SS is a symbol, once
again, of the primal light as it came forth from the dark void - but the
"Holy of Holies" of a true Satanist - which preceded this light is the
Darkness.

There were about forty members of the Thule Gesellschaft who attended the
aforesaid meeting of the German Workers' Party. I have investigated most of
them. That is why I can challenge readers of this post to attempt to refute
me. It will be in vain, and you will only show your own ignorance - not a
Satanic quality. Prominent among the attendees of this meeting was Dietrich
Eckhardt, an early member of the Thule group, as well as his acquaintance,
the so-called Count Heinrich von Sebbetendorf (or Sebbotendorf), the actual
founder of the Thule Gesellschaft. The "Count" established it as an offshoot
of an anti-Semitic lodge of the ancient Germanenorden. Eckhardt himself
found out that this "nobleman's" real name was not Sebbetendorf, but Rudolph
Glauer, the son of a locomotive engine-driver from Dresden. Again, nothing
wrong with that, but there is something wrong with being a phony. Most
un-Satanic. Glauer claimed he had been officially adopted under "Turkish
law" by the Count Heinrich von Sebbetendof, and therefore had a right to
this title. Eckhardt, for reasons I won't go into here, made no attempt to
expose him nor undermine his fake reputation, as he could have. Suffice it
to say that Eckhardt did not want to undermine the power and prestige of the
Thule Gesellschaft when it was beginning to establish itself in Bavaria.
Glauer was influenced, as I said, by Blavatsky's doctrines of Light from her
two volume work The Secret Doctrine, but didn't know the difference between
dark doctrines and forces vs. light ones. He also studied Sufi meditation
and Oriental philosophy, again without knowing the difference. The least
that can be said of LaVey is that, however he did so, he seems to have had
at least an inkling of the difference.

I have chosen details about Glauer to illustrate what was the case of all of
these Thule members. They were not Satanists. Glauer, General Karl
Haushofer, and others members simply transposed Blavatsky's descriptions and
magical conditions about pre-historical "Atlantis" to the Germanic
mythological world of the Eddas, in which the Gods, giants, men, and beasts
were engaged in a bloodcurdling struggle for survival. These were age-old
legends of ignorant men about Niflheim (the Underworld), Muspellhiem, and
Midgard. These I will agree are intriguing and suggestive ideas, but hardly
Satanic. Based on all of this, Glauer and other member of this inner group
of the Thule Gesellschaft predicted that latent powers slumbering in the
"blood" of the Aryan race would unfold in the Twentieth Century under Adolf
Hitler. "Supermen" would then appear, they believed, awakening the Germanic
people to the glories of their ancient heritage, which had been obliterated
by Christianity. (They were right about this systematic and relentless
obliteration, but the Germans obliterated it themselves, or one may say that
they colonized themselves). They believed these coming Supermen would
conquer the world. All of these ideas were extended and refined by Heinrich
Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS, who inveigled and sometimes terrorized a large
section of the German academic community into perpetuating these myths of an
inherent German racial superiority.

Herman Rauschning, a defected Gauleitier, explained the excitation of
Germans by racial ideology as being due to the fact that every German, he
said, had "one foot in 'Atlantis' where he seeks a better Fatherland and a
better patrimony." Such a quest for betterment of this kind I can commend.
But again, this is not Satanic or of the Dark. It is natural, and of the
Light. Rauschning's comments on the "great leader" of this failed movement
will be particularly enlightening to real Satanists reading this.
Rauschning, who met Hitler on numerous occasions, wrote that "Hitler is the
reeking miasma of furtive, unnatural sexuality which fills and fouls the
atmosphere around him, like an evil emanation. Nothing in his environment is
straightforward. Surreptitious relationships, substitutes and symbols, false
sentiments and hidden lusts - nothing in this man's surroundings is natural
and genuine, nothing has the openness of a natural instinct. 'Oh, if only
Hitler knew how it does one good to have a fresh natural girl!' said
Forster, another of Hitler's Gauleiters" (quoted from Hitler Speaks, by
Hermann Rauschning). With this, Rausching hit on the head the trouble with
all of today's bogus "Satanists" who gravitate toward Hitler, the SS, and
National Socialism. According to Rauschning, Hitler fantastically enthroned
himself, "looking out to eternity," from his mountain eyrie at Barbarossa, a
snowbound, glass-walled building nestled in a rocky ravine of the Bavarian
mountains. The walls of his "palace" were adorned with nudes of no artistic
intention, but instead illustrating the crudest sexual deviations.
Christianity had made him what it seeks to make of everyone: someone "smooth
between the legs," someone whose sexuality is focused in his brain. A
twisted, demented, pathetic creature, utterly broken at the root.

If this is where you are coming from, if sexual perversion of this type has
a central place in your life, then, by all means, join the worldwide ranks
of National Socialists, but quit pretending that the pentacle stands for
this! Let me put it simply: sexual dementia was at the core of Hitler, as it
is of all products of Christian society. He, like many of you bogus
"Satanists," like Aleister Crowley too, as complete a product of
Christianity as anyone, have put this at the heart of your so-called
mediumistic and clairvoyant powers. It is the motivation behind every one of
your so-called "Satanic" acts. In these acts, you reap vengeance only on
yourself, and futilely attempt it on the Christian repressors of your
childhood and pubescent sexuality. There is nothing wrong with a love of
Teutonic mythology. But that is not what is involved in your so-called
fascistic "Satanism."

Instead of Mussolini's "believe, obey, and fight," I advocate, as a
Satanist, what Lenin advocated. He told Russian soldiers to stop fighting,
to end the war, and to take the guns the Tsar had issued to them and turn
them on their own generals. This is truly Satanic. (The Russians did as he
said, overthrew the Tsars, and won the Bolshevik Revolution, as they
defeated the Nazi "supermen" forty years or so later, killing or capturing
four or more Wehrmacht soldiers and killing ten to every kill or capture by
the Americans under General Eisenhower.)

When great mutations of the human species finally do occur, building up and
adding up to a truly new species whose destiny is to inherit the Earth,
eventually annihilating and supplanting everything else, the way Homo
sapiens supplanted the Neanderthal, it will not conform in any way to the
so-called "visions" the delirious Adolf Hitler had as he lay writhing in
torment in his hospital bed from mustard gas poisoning. Take him as your
"Fuehrer" if you like. As a real Satanist and admirer of LaVey, I pass.

Perhaps the best the most truly Satanic thing that might be true of many of
you "National Socialist Satanists" is what Rene Guenon said of Neo-pagan
groups in the era of the Thule Gesellschaft. He suggested they might be, as
you the reader might be, unwitting tools of higher demonic powers seeking to
unleash untold horrors on mankind. If "demons" and their human demonolators
are conjuring you to do this, in which case pulling strings you don't even
realize you have, that would explain why you feed off repression, blood and
pain. Having had personal acquaintance with various "demons" within the
hearts of similarly enamored and demented people, let me tell you that
contrary to general opinion, demons love Christians because Christians'
minds and lives are built around blood, pain, and sadism: it is the only way
they can release themselves from their own repressions; it is their only
outlet.

**********

From Chuck Shaddoway: (COS member or COS friendly for ages - he's an old
timer)

The very fact that so many pseudo-Satanists have adopted the Nazi thing just
proves that they're not Satanists. They're HERD-types.

"Oh, I'm a Satanist, so I'll shave my head and only wear black, and I'll be
nasty to everyone outside my little clique, and that'll make me His Satanic
Majesty!" Get a clue!

A true Satanist can be slicker than catshit on linoleum. He can slide inside
the herd like a ghost, work his wiles, and have the Herd begging him to
slaughter them. He can pick a lady out of a crowd, ask her to dance, and
before the music ends, she'll be offering to bear his children. And he (or
SHE) is well-versed: in music, literature, finance, politics, humor, and a
whole lot more. He's got the answer before the others have thought of the
question. He doesn't suffer fools gladly, unless he's about to fleece a
willing sheep. He gathers INTERESTING people about him, not a HERD of
LOSERS. He has Class, Style, and Finesse. Good looks help, but they're not
required...

A Satanist is equally at home on the dance floor or behind enemy lines.

Above all, he's his own person, a lackey of NO ONE...

--Chuck Shaddoway

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

12. From Kaiden Fox

Ole said: Forcing a dress code onto women

**********

From Kaiden Fox (at the time, a COS active member, quit to make his own org)

Ole said: Forcing a dress code onto women (which Doctor didn't-he plainly
listed techniques for manipulating broken men, not stating a dress code) is
equivalent to forcing women to cover their faces insofar as the natural body
isn't accepted. In that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE between forcing a
"witchy" dress code onto females, forcing them to cover their faces, and
cutting off their clitorises. That's not necessarily the same as telling
them that men can me manipulated if they (the females, not the men) wear
sexy shoes, which (hopefully) was what Doctor was doing.

I've seen the Sexy Shoes portrayed as a Mandate. I can't remember which
magazine it was in, but I'm pretty sure it was the Black Pun-Kin. Perhaps
I'm taking things out of context, because I've only seen one issue. However,
the exchange was that one reader wrote in asking if she HAD to dress in
high-heals. The answer given was YES, but not on New York sidewalks because
that would just kill your feet. I've also seen in print Anton LaVey on
record as saying, "If fascism makes men look like men and women look like
women, I'm all for it." I know of one person who dresses like a fascist on a
regular basis, and I think it makes him look just silly. (In his defense, I
will point out that he is the head of our Abuse department, which might
explain why it looks like overkill - also, the guy looks just ounces over
100 pounds. When I dress like a fascist, I'm trying to employ the Law of
Dominant Mass towards the Command to Look). I think what would make women
look like women is returning to a Minoan style of dress.

Ole said: True. And any female has power over any male, but not in the TSW
sense. The TSW techniques draw on oppressed instincts while the kind of
power I'm talking about is a raw desire to procreate.

On the other hand, the Satanic Witch never has the Caveat that this is a
handbook for manipulating Christians. Having said that, it's easy to see WHY
one would NOT say that. Tani poured over my own "handbook" for manipulating
Christian Women and, given what I know about her, she confirmed that my
techniques would probably get just a funny look from someone like her. She
even said that the "human mind" as I portrayed it is the mind of a
schizophrenic. And my primary source, Richard Bandler, even said the same
thing in the book "Frogs into Princes." (I think). Anton LaVey has never, to
the best of my knowledge, come out and said outright that Satanists do not
think like WASPS (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants).

Kaiden Fox

**********

From Kari Nevala "Bingonoid" (independent - at the time, SR now)

I'll write about Sexuality, Indulgence and Nazism

During the Weimar Republic in Germany, before the Nazis got into power, the
general climate was somewhat open-minded. Considering the time and location,
the people were relatively well in tune with their animal instincts. Many
carnal intellectual innovations took place. State repression of different
forms of sexuality was rare, and there existed vital sexual sub-cultures.
All this would change when the Nazis got into power.

One of the pre-Nazi innovations was the flourishing of sexology-the study of
human sexuality. Sexology of the period was personified in one Dr. Magnus
Hirschfeld (1868 - 1935), whose motto was "justice through knowledge" (in
other words "sociopolitical change through the 'truly occult'"?). Dr.
Hirschfeld founded the historical Institute for Sexual Research, first of
it's kind, in 1919, and published many pioneering studies on human
sexuality. Hirschfeld was very much like Kinsey decades later in USA, who
used methods developed by Hirschfeld. Both were persons who displayed, for
all to see, the undefiled wisdom of the carnal nature of human existence.

The Nazis saw the very same liberal innovative spirit of the Weimar Republic
as the cause for the fall of the German people. The Nazis hated and despised
Hirschfeld, his colleagues and their works. Not least because Hirschfeld was
also a gay rights activist, and the Nazis saw homosexuality as one of the
most sickening things plaguing the German people (despite the fact that a
notorious homosexual, Ernst Roehm, got them into power with his Storm
Troopers, most of whom were also gay). It's essential to realize that the
Nazis didn't hate homosexuality because of eugenic reasons. The main reason,
for the Nazis, was that homosexuality, in their eyes, represented the
indulgent spirit, the spirit of enjoyment, which they saw as corruptive and
the opposite to the Iron Will. Iron Will meant strength by the means of
abstinence and compulsion. The Nazis hated the homosexuals, because they
were "men with animal instincts." They considered the homosexuals to be
seducers, and "rigorous discipline and will power" was thought to be
necessary to be able to abstain from falling into indulgence with them. That
is the main reason why the Nazis fought against homosexuality-not some
eugenic issues. Indulgence was the arch enemy of the Nazis. They wanted to
destroy that which they felt attraction to.

This can not be overemphasized to a person of our times who is into Nazi
aesthetics. The Nazis were fighting against the carnal aspects of human life
in an attempt to return back to "Victorian" Christian values; back to the
times when even the legs of pianos had to be covered, so that nobody could
even accidentally come to think about something sexual. The Nazis were the
Taliban of their times. Men who hated joy. They had that mentality in their
hearts, and they created what similar cultures have created through the
times. For example the Nazis made laws in which even touching another man
would be considered criminal-compare that to the most sickening forms of the
Samurai culture, in which touching another person's weapon would be
considered to be a crime demanding capital punishment. A culture built on
compulsive behavioral norms, adoring abstinence. Hating the carnal nature
and the undefiled wisdom.

When the Nazis got into power in 1933, their first target for destruction
was the Institute for Sexual Research. It was "closed down" the 6th of June
1933, and the priceless scientific collections and works were "confiscated"
(burned at the Opera Square of Berlin). The terror of the 3rd Reich had
begun. Once again abstinence lead into burning books. And perhaps once again
it was fuelled by self-hate, Thanatos: Ernst Roehm, a long time friend of
Hitler and the head of the SA in 1933, was a homosexual.

Strength from joy!

Kari Nevala

----------

From: PJ the Puter Wiz, a/k/a Lucifer-Satan @ on #atheism (staunch
independent - SR now)

I think I could sum it up in one paragraph... fascism is the idea of
generally a quite klippothic individual ruling over a large number of
people, diverting them to his or her will. Satanism, is about following your
own will. personal power, not power of the state, not power of one
individual over many. The two do not seem compatible and I just don't know
how to stretch that out much further than that =)

The fascist wants to control many and bend them, reshape them. Very
christian, in fact. In Satanism, you take responsibility and power, and have
your own personal moral code and path to follow. You take power yourself, in
Satanism, instead of giving it away to a select few.

I just can't help but see the fascist as the schoolyard bully, and the
people the bully picked on who grows up and decides to bully everyone else
the first chance they get. It's what happens with people who are bullied,
often. The moment they're in a position of power, they start to become the
bully themselves. And I see fascists as the bullies and the bullies that are
created by bullies. They desire to control, to punishm everyone for their
pain.

**********

ELITISM, FASCISM, & THE SATANIC WAY OF LIFE, BY BEN SCHULTZ (COS member - he
wrote a second whole essay)

I am not sure exactly when this fascist ideology permeated a group of
enlightened beings or how we allowed it to slip through the cracks. I am
unaware of the origin of this plague on our way of life, but I do know the
disease is spreading fast. And, if left unchecked, may destroy our way of
life.

Those among you who have yet to truly see the root of these philosophies may
not understand my utter disgust with those who preach from this particular
pulpit all the while wearing their Baphomet like a "Red Badge of Courage."
But to one who has not only dissected the words of the Dark Doctrines and
works of Doctor LaVey, but has also taken the time to feel the spirit of
these works, it is apparent that one can not be both a Satanist and follow
either of these political philosophies. They ARE mutually exclusive
conceptualizations!

Our entire belief system is based on the concept of responsibility. We place
personal responsibility above all else. We are responsible for our successes
as well as our failures. We accept that no supernatural father figure is
looking down on us from on high guiding our every move. We believe that we
exist merely on our own merit, for good or ill.

To acknowledge anyone as a dictator or superior goes against the very nature
of our being. Furthermore, to be acknowledged as superior to another is also
against our nature. Some people may disagree, but my arguments are
convincing.

First, a dictator exists by the grace of his subjects. That means dictators
are dependent on another person or group of persons for their power. This is
not the way we are. It is the antithesis of our ideals. It exposes the low
self esteem of the person. It is NOT Satanic! It can not be by the very
basis of our beliefs. To be dependent on another for our self worth would
betray our sense of self, or it betrays the lack of true understanding. This
sad excuse for a Satanist would be living in the world of self delusion
while claiming to be a member of a group that defies illusion.

Do I mean by this that we are not superior? NO! By this I mean that
superiority is not a goal or even a concern for the true follower of the
Left Hand Path! We are too busy with the things that concern us! We do not
have the time to worry about what others may think of our achievements,
projects, or goals.

Which brings us to the real reason these disillusioned few turn to talk of
the elite and fascism. They crave power which they themselves are incapable
of achieving. The equate self worth with the clout they wield. The fools!
They continually search without for what must exist within if it is to exist
at all. To hide their own inadequacy they rally other like minded and
incompetent people to their infantile cries of superiority, stratification,
and elitism. They replace the foundation of responsibility with an attitude
of "I can do whatever the hell I please with absolutely no concern for
consequence." There is nothing Satanic about their rhetoric. They are not
Satanic! Fortunately, they will never understand the true power that freedom
and responsibility together can bring. This will be the root of their
undoing.

It has been said that a "house divided can not stand." Of this we need not
fear. These imbeciles have never been members of our house. They can not
destroy it. They admit, by their own actions, that they lack the power.

Ben, Mr. Faust

**********

I (Tani Jantsang) wrote for Stewart at the time, 2000 A NOTE FROM THE
"DEMAGOGUE"......:o)

Meritocracy is NOT the same as hierarchy. Not at all. This is a DANGEROUS
misconception that I believe is born in the smothered hearts of people who
are presently RAGING against society. (Suggestion: move out of the
neighborhood...)

You DO NOT have ANY meritocracy in ANY hierarchy, whether that "-archy" is
Monarchy, Oligarchy, Patriarchy or other. NONE. What you have instead is
STASIS, static classes, static positions in society, static roles based NOT
on what you are or can do, but on WHO you are, who you are related to, who
you know, and other such arbitrary rubbish. From generation to generation,
or group to group, you have the STATUS QUO. The appearance of stratification
in hierarchies are nothing but appearances that have NOTHING AT ALL to do
with the MERIT of the individual. I say "most often" because such systems
are overthrown and what you get as a result is anarchy and slaughter. Lots
of slaughter. Vengeance is sweet.

But here is the trick: meritocracies lead to stratification, and each
"strata" that forms in the society AT ANY GIVEN TIME (important), COULD BE
looked at as a hierarchy in a very loose way, the loosest of ways - so loose
that it's not even a hierarchy - because it's an ever changing hierarchy,
it's ALWAYS in motion and never the same. Not only from generation to
generation but even within one lifetime, the strata changes. This is a MAJOR
difference. This is also how the entire web of life works in real nature.
The other is only the way nature is in the minds of those that either desire
to make nature what it is not, or those just too stupid to understand the
NOT-so-subtle difference.

**********

That's it! That's all that was there on Tim Stewart's website.

This above is exactly what Peter Gilmore SAW - because this above is what
was ON Tim Stewart's website at the time.

This below is the email Tim Stewart got from Peter Gilmore, which he showed
to the people that helped him:

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:26:36 GMT "Tim Epperhart"
<&***@hotmail.com> writes:

Peter: Dear Mr. Stewart (Epperhart): I recently was asked by some members to
view your new website, specifically the section dealing with your project
regarding "fascism."

Peter: Since we (the administration of the Church of Satan and Anton LaVey
himself) have long considered this to be a dead issue (we had articles in
"The Black Flame" which dealt with this over a course of several years), I
wasn't inclined to spend the time. However, I was told that you present
erroneous information about the Church of Satan as if it were factual, and
that claim did require investigation. I found it to be true. I note that
your project essentially consisted of sending out an email letter and then
gathering and posting responses. I counted the responses, and they were
written by less than twenty individuals. Since the Church of Satan consists
of many thousands of members, very few of whom are online, if this was
intended to be a comprehensive "survey," it certainly fails. In actuality it
is only a reflection of the opinions of online individuals who are in direct
contact with you and who chose to respond.

Peter: By any statistical standards, this makes your project meaningless, if
it is meant to convey information regarding the Church of Satan.

Peter: You are not an administrator of the Church of Satan, nor are any of
the people who responded to you (a number of whom aren't even members of the
Church of Satan). So, you personally should have borne such facts in mind
when making the broad generalizations in your own introduction and
conclusion to the emails which you received in response to your letter. But
it is clear that you did not. You assume that you have some knowledge about
the Church of Satan at large, its membership and its practices, and this is
completely erroneous.

Peter: My general impressions concerning these emails (save for the very
sensible response by "Wooki") is that a straw man is being established (the
concept that there is some kind of "fascist faction" which has a hand in
controlling the Church of Satan) and then knocked down.

Peter: If indeed there is a "fascist faction," neither you nor any of your
respondents spent any time in listing the members of this group by name or
listing their numbers, nor is any time spent in quoting any of their works
which would prove their agenda - which you state to be the intention to
force other Church of Satan members to "agree with them or leave the Church
of Satan."

Peter: If you cannot prove that a substantial percentage of the membership
of the Church of Satan has preached a specific political agenda (namely
"fascism") and then demanded that all of the other members must agree with
this or leave, then this project has no validity.

Peter: It is simply what it is: a handful of people shooting the breeze
about a topic. It is a collection of opinions, and we all know that it is
said that "opinions are indeed like assholes - everyone has one...etcetera."

Peter: Let me examine the introduction and conclusion which you wrote to
bracket the solicited emails. I have quoted this text directly from your
site, and my questions and comments are interpolated and will be enclosed in
brackets. My questions are rhetorical and what I state is not intended to
fuel debate. My purpose is to make an offer to you and those who think as
you do, and you will come across it in due course.

---------------------------------------------------

PROJECT 1

Stewart: By: Timothy Stewart Epperhart - "Wolf At Hart" The successes of
fascism easily make people lose all perspective and result in their
forgetting, or being ignorant of the actual conditions which made the
strengthening and the victory of fascism possible.

Note brackets, this is Peter's text.

Peter: [This is what is called a "sweeping generalization," as any high
school writing teacher would point out. Detailed evidence is required to
support such a claim, and unfortunately none is supplied by you or your
respondents in all that is to follow. What are the "successes" and "victory"
of fascism, particularly when we all know that fascist states have, for the
most part, fallen? ]

Stewart: Introduction: First of all, I'm going to allow the readers of this
document to understand that this project came about from a simple letter and
correspondence over E-mail; Initially my intentions were set on making an in
depth article with the help of some acquaintances, and in some cases
non-acquaintances if that was their choice: And yes, there was choice. Speak
up and be heard: or shut up!

Peter: [This reveals your agenda: you DEMAND participation in your project -
that people MUST come argue in your "sandbox," and then you dismiss any who
don't think it worthy of participation and tell them to be silent. Sounds
rather "fascistic" to me. It could be that many people wouldn't think you
have the credentials to be capable of handling such a project with the
requisite objectivity, let alone the literary and editorial skills needed,
and opted out for that reason.]

Stewart: Here is the Original Letter: I am going to analyze the "ideal of
Fascism" that we see within the Satanic movement at the present time. I
asked for both sides and hoped for an historically objective account.

Peter: [You asked whom for both sides? Did you contact any members of the
Church of Satan who have claimed to be attempting to make this organization
a fascist organization?.....

Stewart, I believe you perhaps should have come forward with the information
you got from your contact on satannet - the one who KNOWS who they are and
who told you some of their names, or just provided them yourself with logs
to prove it or whatever else you have. You sure the hell came forth STRONGLY
with this - and at that time I thought you were one of them lol!! SOMETHING
must have made you write it - and whoever imagines I had A THING to do with
it, better screw their heads on tighter. I didn't even know about it. Hell,
Valinda knew about it 1 month before I did. MANY did. That would have been
interesting if you provided proof. My whole angle on this shit is that there
is nothing political going on because these people are political idiots. My
whole contention is (and I know this) that their fetish is SEXUAL. That
their desire is based on emotional rage as an impetus. They aren't Nazis or
fascists. They are idiots.

Peter: .....Essentially, I doubt that you could have, as there aren't any
members who are attempting to do this.....

Peter: .....The Church of Satan has always been politically pragmatic - I've
said it, LaVey has said it. The Church of Satan does not dictate the
politics of its members, and they are (and have always been) free to choose
whatever suits their personal needs. For the record, those outside the
Church of Satan have, from its inception, accused it of all manner of
politics: communism, fascism, anarchism, liberalism, conservatism - and just
about anything else you can think of, all of which are mutually exclusive.
What IS clear, is that journalists who have an "axe to grind" against the
Church of Satan have always accused it of advocating a political system
which is one they personally abhor - thus the Church of Satan plays the role
of "devil" to them in whatever arena of human thought they wish to explore.]

Stewart: The statements made by Magistrate Nadramia in her "speculation on
similarities between Fascism and Satanism" are noted and should be viewed
for relevance. The URL for that article is or was:
http://www.apodion.com/vad/cos/s_n_Nazi.shtml (It is also in "Is Fascism
Satanic" on www.geocities.com/satanicreds/

Peter: [This article is still relevant (and was heartily endorsed by Anton
LaVey - which doesn't require that you do likewise), and it was interesting
to note how some of your respondents supplied their own definitions for
fascism - essentially putting a spin on what Magistra Nadramia had said very
clearly, then argued against it. More "straw man" tactics, which are among
the methodologies used by demagogues.]

Peter: [Some of your respondents did attempt to clarify your error of
conflating these terms. That you said this is an example, however, of a very
real "herd" definition of these terms. In the 1960's the radical left
preached a philosophy of "peace and love" which really boiled down to the
concept of leveling everything to being "equal." This "philosophy"
championed the abandoning of any rational criteria for evaluation of
anything, and the embracing of everything as being of equal value, which
thus fostered mediocritization of every level of human cultural endeavor. We
are still living in the fallout of this mode of thinking, as the then young
people who espoused these ideas have grown to adulthood and are now the
"establishment" (those adults whom they considered to be the enemy during
the sixties). This "egalitarianism" (for that is what they called it) was
manifested in the cultural arena with concepts such as: "Anything can be
defined as being art and all such works must be considered to have equal
validity."....

Peter: .....Thus, some random splashes on a canvas were considered an equal
achievement to the Sistine Chapel, a mud hut was held up as being equivalent
to Versailles, and so on. This principle of "indiscrimination" lead to all
other fields of achievement. A janitor was considered the equivalent to a
physicist, a novelist was now the peer of one who scrawled graffiti on a
bathroom wall and so on. Those who opposed this leveling were accused of
being "fascists" or "Nazis," without regard for what these terms might have
meant in their actual historical origins and practice. After all, it was the
mid-sixties, twenty years after the ending of a war that none of these folks
were even alive to have experienced. How quickly past orthodoxies are
forgotten. The Church of Satan was created in the mid-sixties and stood in
contradistinction to these ideas, which were generally defined as being
"liberal." .....

Peter: .....From the time of the very foundation of the organization, Anton
LaVey and the members of the Church of Satan were appalled at this societal
trend, which favored the elimination of concrete criteria for the evaluation
of just about anything and instead advocated that any kind of merit was
illusory - and thus that the act of evaluation was an "evil" practice.
"Discrimination" became a "bad word," when previously it had meant "sound
judgment." Well, the Church of Satan never shied away from embracing things
which society considered "evil," and thus it championed a rebirth of strict
criteria for evaluation of all areas of human endeavor, and quite radically
placed the responsibility for this squarely on the shoulders of each
individual. Thus, there was no "appeal to authority" for Satanists - each
person held the responsibility for being their own authority. For this
reason, we were called "fascists" and "Nazis" - NOT because of any
advocation of the sociopolitical ends of these historical movements......

Peter: .....Satanists today do not shy away from being called these names
for this very same reason. We champion merit and superior achievement in all
areas, and are the enemy of enshrined mediocrity. We abhor what we see as a
society that is a rampant "mediocracy." The masses (in the sixties as well
as of today) don't know what the terms "Nazi" and "fascist" really mean in a
historical sense. These are used as epithets against anyone with whom they
don't agree. Most frequently they are employed by "politically correct"
intellectuals who use "Nazi" and "fascist" in the same manner that Joe
McCarthy used the word "communist" and the Christian Inquisitors used the
word "witch" - to discredit the validity of the accused's point of view and
brand them a "heretic/thought criminal." Because of the continuing decline
in the level of education, even amongst those who pursue degrees at major
universities, we can expect that there will be no real broad understanding
of what the terms "Nazi" and "fascist" really mean. These will simply remain
derogatory epithets used against those perceived to be "the bad guys.".....

Peter: .....Satanists are aware of what impact words and images have on the
herd, and thus use them to their advantage. It should be clear to anyone who
has observed human society that there is an all-pervading interest on the
part of the contemporary general public with the Third Reich. This
commentary to you would grow to gigantic proportions should I take the time
to examine the reasons for this (most of which should be obvious). Anyone
with cable television or who happens to visit movie theatres will see that
the Nazis are now the standard archetype in entertainment for what the
masses deem to be "Evil" - and they are fascinated with this and fetishize
it to no end. Do you watch "The History Channel" (whose emblem is a carved,
angular letter "H")? We jokingly say that this really stands for "Hitler"
not "History" as over 50% of their programming is Third Reich related. Yes,
it's a HERD thing.

It should come as no surprise to any Satanist, that certain savvy Satanists
who make their living entertaining the masses (like Boyd Rice or Brian
Warner) use the public's obsession with this material for their own
ends......

Peter: .....Hence both have used symbols and techniques derived from Third
Reich spectacles (which were undeniably powerful means for motivating masses
of people) for the purpose of stimulating their audiences and thus putting
money in their pockets. Is this advocating political fascism? No.]

Stewart: ..initially had specific criteria which are notable. The Nazis are
well known for their treatment of the Jews in their area, which they
exterminated for being "a weaker race." Scientists do acknowledge a
similarity in "Jewish People" or Semites, via gene analysis, but such
analysis didn't exist during those times; needless to say, the Nazis viewed
the Jews not as a religion, but as a race. The best solution the Nazis came
up with for so-called stratification, was to adopt the most potent political
system at their disposal: Fascism. This was Nazism.

Peter: [In point of fact, "stratification" was not the goal of the German
fascists. They sought political power and needed a scapegoat for the
economic woes of many people.....

Peter: .....They chose the Jews, since many were economically successful,
and galvanized much of the populace into following them through this hatred.
They also targeted communists, whom they felt were enemies to their system
of National Socialism. Once the Nazis took power, their first order of
business was to imprison political enemies, many of whom were communists.
These were the people incarcerated in concentration camps, long before any
program was established to put Jews in these camps simply because of their
being Jewish. In fact, the German government worked with Zionist movements
to export Jews to the area now known as Israel, even helping these people to
evade British blockades in their quest to emigrate to their ancestral
"homeland." The Holocaust happened later, at a time of greater desperation
for the Nazi State.]

Peter: [This statement is complete bunk. Which Satanists said this and
where?]

Stewart: Also influencing them is that the Swastika is looked upon as being
"Evil" like the Sigil of Baphomet. The Swastika was considered a very
atrocious thing. What the Swastika actually meant in the past has no bearing
on any of this, regardless of Herd Misconceptions.

Peter: [The herd¹s misconceptions have EVERYTHING to do with how a Satanist
uses symbols to influence the herd. That should be obvious. The folks who
run around today and try to reclaim the swastika as a "good" symbol have
totally failed to supplant the herd's identification of this as a sign of
"ultimate Evil," far more potent to them than the Sigil of Baphomet.
Satanists take note of this fact. When dealing with mass consciousness,
original meanings are not of any importance, but the current meanings are
all important - which was the import of my discussion of the terms "Nazi"
and "fascist" above.]

Stewart: "Amidst the Hitlerian concept of strength through joy!" -ASL, The
Satanic Bible. Indeed, Hitler was no fool when he offered the people freedom
on a personal level, but the way that it was done was wrong and is opposed
to Church of Satan doctrine.

Peter: [Here is the crux of what is a major misprision that exists in almost
all of the people who responded to your project. It is that they identify
with the herd, and not the rulers of these projected "idealistic" fascist
societies.]

Peter: [Fascism in actuality is a doctrine that requires the submission of
individuals to the goals of the state. It is a collectivist philosophy,
suppressing individualism, which states that each person should sacrifice
himself to an abstract principle, which is treated as a mythologically
sacred entity - THE STATE.

Peter: The past supposed "glories" of the state become the sacred icons in
what is in actuality a new religion. Fascism is clearly a means for
controlling herds (and one that was effective). When this doctrine is placed
into practice, there has to be somebody who tells the herd what the needs of
THE STATE are to be, since THE STATE is just an abstraction - it does not
exist. Here enters the "Ruling Class" - otherwise known as the Nazi Party,
The Communist Party, the Khmer Rouge, and so on. These rulers claim to
embody THE STATE, and tell the masses what is the will of THE STATE, and
they reign much like the ancient priesthoods, who held their power by being
the only ones capable of communicating to people the "will of the Gods."
These people are a de facto "aristocracy," which uses THE STATE for its
raison d'etre, just as the latter day heads of some of the communist states
handed down THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE as their excuse for controlling their
massed subjects. These rulers are not subject to sacrificing themselves to
THE STATE, because they are the ones who, as embodiments of THE STATE,
choose who is to be sacrificed (and they don't pick themselves - though
sometimes they do pick their cohorts who are getting a bit too cocky). These
kinds of rulers now use terms more palatable to our century, whose masses
won't buy such old excuses as "the divine right of kings," but their means
are identical. Of course, these rulers are often foiled by subsequent
"prophets," who convince the masses that they, rather than the current
rulers, embody THE STATE, and so counter-revolutions occur and the former
leaders are usually dispatched with violence.

Peter: "Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain!" said the
glowering face in a fountain of fire (THE STATE/THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE),
hoping that Dorothy and crew wouldn't notice who really is pulling the
strings. But Toto (the beast) pulled aside the curtain. Now we might begin
to see how Satanists factor in to this equation. The Satanist should always
be aware of who is really running the situation in which he finds himself.
Satanists do not see themselves as being part of the herd and naturally
resist any attempts to be forced to live under any regimes that would make
them part of the controlled herd. However, Satanists really don't care how
the herd is being controlled, so long as they themselves aren't subject to
being controlled along with them. If forced by circumstance to be part of
such a governmental situation (and I caution the reader to examine how much
he really knows about the machinations of his current nation of residence),
the clever Satanist would either be the person who pulls the strings, or,
more likely, his associate. Being the one behind a "leader" is generally a
safer position, as the leader is always a target, while the advisors often
survive changes in "top dogs."

Peter: Some Satanists who are "political idealists" might envision a future
wherein Satanists are the "man behind the curtain" directing the herd to
support their own personal indulgences - the herd sacrificing themselves to
a ruling, but necessarily hidden, Satanic "elite." Frankly, I see this as a
political pipedream. Running a state would leave little time for personal
indulgences and enjoying one's life. In contemporary Western society, the
only political factions likely to attempt create a fascistic system (as
meant by the original meanings of the terms) are the right-wing Christians
(and the film, "The Handmaid's Tale" provides a chilling visualization of
this possibility). I think it far more productive to advocate a system which
guarantees freedom for the exercise of many points of view (so long as it
doesn't require me to pay for wastrels who want a free ride).

Peter: But we in the administration of the Church of Satan do not control
the thoughts of our members, so if some of them want to toy with these
"political dreams," that is their business. As long as they don't drag our
Church into any political agendas, their personal pursuits remain just that:
personal.]

Stewart: Herd mentality is a sin in CoS doctrine and it is noted: how else
would the Nazis be able to exterminate a race? On a personal level? Was this
a way for an ideal form of stratification?

Peter: [Did anyone say it was?]

Stewart: Is murder stratification, and would these actions be "justified"
because they were founded upon a Fascistic point of view?

Peter: [That humans kill one another is a part of the way our species
functions. When nations come into conflict with each other, and this
escalates beyond economic exchanges, what in peacetime would be termed
"murder" then becomes justified in the hands of the military. How the
conflicts finally pan out is one of the means for large-scale stratification
in our species.]

Stewart: E-Mail Observations and information to ***@hotmail.com
I look forward to writing this article, in any case. Thank you for
participation. Hail Satan! Hail the Church of Satan! Timothy Stewart

Stewart: Stewart's commentary: Now we come to the end where it is necessary
to evaluate these responses and fill in the blanks.

Stewart: I am sure some of the points raised will hit home with many
readers, both those who are members of the CoS and those who are not. Some
of what you've read you probably already understood since history is rife
with examples of the affects of Fascism and it is fairly easy to see, in
those examples, just what kind of people Fascism appeals to.

Peter: [Since multi-level definitions of "fascism" were not explored in this
project (you and your respondents missed its "common-parlance" usage and
chose to concentrate only on some of its historical definitions), the
analyses in the postings on your site concerning what form of
attractions/repulsions it may have for certain types of individuals do not
even begin to qualify as being exhaustive or even relevant.]

Stewart: Regardless of the differences between the "moral foundations" of
those Fascists in the past and the present Fascist infection, as I see it,
they share the same intentions.

Peter: [It is curious that you use the word "infection" here, yet no effort
has been made on your site to demonstrate just what is being infected, by
whom, and to what extent.

Peter: So, using this term is an attempt at pushing emotional buttons
without justification - not rational argument.]

Stewart: That is, to form an "All is One" union or dictatorship at the
highest levels in the organization that would trickle down, via
brainwashing, and a "toe the line or get out" party line to the
rank-and-file.

Peter: [The Church of Satan has never required anything of its members
except that they hold the writings of Anton LaVey as their basis for
membership in this organization. Members are free to build their own
personal viewpoints on this foundation. If people have substantial
disagreements with LaVey's work, or wish to promote something else as the
basis for Satanism, like the "dark doctrines,".....

Peter: .....then they should not be members and should tender their
resignations immediately.

Peter: There is no "brainwashing" in this organization - we don't have the
time for such labor intensive activities, which would garner minimal
results, and which are counter to our basic principles.

Peter: As from the beginning, we are a cabal of very independent individuals
who share a philosophy synthesized by Anton LaVey as our point of
commonality. And we will not try to force our members into some kind of
lock-step unity in their personal choices for building upon LaVey's
foundation. However, one thing I see in common amongst many of the
responders to your letter, is that they usually do identify themselves as a
self-proclaimed "faction" who center themselves on the ideas of Tani
Jantsang, not those of Anton LaVey.

Peter: Even if this is not admitted, any casual observer of the writings of
these people makes this very clear.

Peter: And, from their recent activities in chat rooms and on Usenet, it is
abundantly apparent that this clique is set on making the Church of Satan a
"one true way" organization based on their interpretations of issues of
sociology, politics, and biology.

Peter: This "faction" clearly plays "Inquisition" and labels those members
of the Church of Satan who disagree with them as "Klippoths".....

Peter: .....(remember, Joe McCarthy and the Inquisitors as mentioned
above?), and is now working to make their opinions the basis for the Church
of Satan. I represent the administration of the Church of Satan and state
that we will not tolerate this attempt at turning our organization into a
totalitarian organization whose sole aim is the promotion of the agendas of
this small group of individuals. These people followed their own paths in
the past, and didn't require that others kowtow to them.

Peter: However, particularly since these folk are active "online," lately
their ideas seem less and less based on the work of LaVey, and consequently
more and more demanding that all other members of the Church of Satan whom
they encounter must agree with them.

Peter: If they find individual members who disagree,.....

Peter: .....they have stated that they will attempt to drive them out. This
is not acceptable, as it is not the business of this clique to determine who
is or who is not a member of the Church of Satan. They are not
administrators of this organization, and they are not arbiters of
membership.

Peter: As Dr. LaVey has said, when ice melts, it is called water. So, if
this clique has decided that they have a new foundation for their concepts
of Satanism (and Tani herself has said there is little of Satanism, by her
definition, in the Church of Satan).....

Peter: .....then they are all invited to leave immediately and found their
own unique organization.]

Stewart: The reader who is paying attention will note the similarity in this
(fascist) doctrine and outlook to the early Christian doctrine of "Convert
or Die."

Peter: [Essentially this defines the tactics used by the Tani clique (Agree
with our way of "correcting" LaVey or be branded a "Klippoth"),.....

Peter: .....NOT the Church of Satan's administration, which accepts a rather
diverse set of means derived from LaVey¹s writings.]

Stewart: The proponents of this Organizational Fascism

Peter: [Whom you have still failed to identify.]

Stewart: cannot practice that doctrine in full in the real world because
those in the past that objected to this tyranny bought our freedom from that
fate with their blood.

Peter: [This reads like a threat to the straw man of "proponents of
Organizational Fascism," that those who disagree with them will do so "with
their blood." That is typical rhetorical nonsense, not rational debate - a
tactic used so effectively by Dr. Goebbels, I might add.]

Stewart: Were it still a valid option, however, the vehemence of the Satanic
Fascist faction

Peter: [Some evidence of this "vehemence," please.]

Stewart: makes it fairly plain that it would be a method joyously utilized
by them to silence the opposition! "You better shut up!" "You better drop
this project." "You can leave if you don't like it."

Peter: [Has any member of the administration of the Church of Satan told any
of the people who've responded to this project to "shut up"?.....

Peter: .....Has any member of the administration told you to "drop this
project"?.....

Peter: .....(Whether any of us thinks that it is a project that has been
executed with any skill is another matter, but we generally don't offer our
opinions unless asked, as per one of our "Rules of the Earth.") And
concerning the corporate entity, which is the Church of Satan, it IS
thoroughly within our rights as administrators of the corporation to tell
any members that, if they disagree with how we are running the organization,
then they SHOULD "leave if they don't like it." We are also empowered to
terminate their titles and membership at will. Membership in the Church of
Satan does not grant you rights of usage of property which belongs to the
corporation, nor does it give you anything beyond what the administration of
the corporation chooses to give to you.]

Stewart: This doctrinal similarity with the avowed enemies of the Satanic
movement in the past, is a large contributing factor to the feeling, on my
part and on the part of many, that these so-called Nazi Revisionist
Satanists have worn out their welcome. Some still pose the question of
whether there is, indeed, a Fascist faction in the CoS.

Peter: [Again, you've presented no evidence whatsoever that there exists a
faction of "Nazi Revisionist Satanists" in the Church of Satan, much less
that such a mythical faction has any power in the organization.]

Stewart: What of stratification? Would that not be a definition of what is
going on within the organization?

Peter: [Stratification is a term coined by Anton LaVey to signify how nature
allows everything to "seek its own level." It is not something to be
advocated - it happens of its own accord. In human social situations there
are many strata - though here in the West for years this was (mistakenly)
thought to be invalid because "democracy" supposedly dissolved the old
formal class structures. In reality, classes founded on economic status were
the new "strata," though some mobility is offered when individuals who were
entrepreneurs garnered enough wealth to move out of their original stratum.
In the past, there were still issues for these "upwardly mobile" individuals
concerning their social status since families coming from "old money" were
associated with "cultured aristocracy" while their "new money" was pegged as
being part of "crass materialism" (and there was some evidence to support
these stereotypes). And stratification is always happening in the
organization, as such cannot be avoided.]

Stewart: It is an interesting question. I would ask the reader to keep the
following point in mind as he/she ponders the question of stratification:
the goal of Fascism is "sameness." In no way does "sameness" equate with
stratification.

Peter: [The goal of fascism is to weld a group of people together towards a
common goal - support of a state - which itself is an illusion created by
the rulers of that state. The "sameness" is the common purpose, and such has
always been the means for totalitarians whether they are called fascists, or
clergy, or commissars. This has nothing ostensibly to do with
stratification, which ideally is the recognition of natural differences
depending upon merit, but can be seen practically in how well the clever
"know the ropes" of the system in which they live. People rise and fall, or
remain static in their society. Like seeks like. As Satanists, we embrace
the principle that there are those who naturally are leaders, and those who
are followers. There are masters and there are slaves, and quite a few
shades in between. It is a delusion amongst many who embrace Satanism that
by adopting this philosophy, they are immediately "masters," and are thus
now equal to all of the other "masters." This is an error. Satanists know
that those who embrace Satanism treat themselves as their own Gods - making
the satisfaction of their individual selves the standard of value for their
lives. However, only the naïve would think that amongst these
self-acknowledged Satanists that everyone is automatically in some kind of
"equivalent brotherhood" now that they are calling themselves "Satanists."
Nothing could be further from reality. Embracing Satanism does not
automatically give you advanced creative skills, a lifetime of hard-won
experience, or wisdom garnered from studying the wealth of information now
at our fingertips. You may be "your own god" but you don't have instant
"godhood" in the realm of human endeavor - that is something only gained
through the refined cultivation of whatever talents are yours by nature.
Satanism can be a great "launching pad" for those who are realists, to see
where they stand in their level of personal achievement, and to rationally
decide how to advance themselves in whatever manner they choose (or not to
advance themselves, but to enjoy whatever level they wish to have). Amongst
Satanists, there are some who embrace the principles of this philosophy and
do not feel that they have the capabilities to make their own horizons, as
Nietzsche defined a characteristic of his superior humans. These honest
individuals, under Satanism, have the choice to personally (and wisely)
select their master, and thus to guarantee that they will get the guidance
they desire which will be beneficial to themselves (unlike unwilling slaves,
they are also free to switch masters should they so choose). Few are honest
enough about themselves to make such a decision. We are thus confronted with
a spectacle of "Satanists" who are all failing the "leaky inner tube test."
They puff themselves up with claims of godhood, when they are, by any
objective standards, really just a bunch of low-grade buffoons who can't
produce anything on a level that could be deemed professional (as low as
many standards for professionalism are these days). Would that they could
honestly look into the mirror and see themselves for who they really are,
and that those who aren't "leaders and innovators" should stop being
pretenders to those thrones. They'd be happier and the fringes of Satanism
would look less ridiculous. However, we do understand the "nature of the
human beast" and thus will do our best to usher these pretentious fools out
of the door of the Church of Satan.]

Stewart: The members of this Fascist faction would have us believe that by
belonging to their faction they are demonstrating some kind of "personal
power." In their eyes, the identification with a political doctrine and
people that sought the elimination of a supposedly "weaker race" invests
them with some feeling of superiority, and they take this to be Satanic.

Peter: [You have offered no evidence for such a faction in the Church of
Satan using this methodology. This is, however, an accurate description of
many white supremacists, and those folk are currently in short supply
amongst our membership. I suggest that this must have something to do with
Anton LaVey's personal Jewish roots, as well as the fact that we don't
embrace racism since it is collectivist thinking and thus not compatible
with the individualist basis for the philosophy of the Church of Satan.]

Stewart: Self-delusion is never a Satanic value,

Peter: [You got that one right!]

Stewart: and self-deluded they are.

Peter: [I'd venture to call this "projection."]

Stewart: Those who posses the "personal power" these would-be Fascists lust
after, feel no need to adopt postures designed to showcase said power; only
the posers feel the need to pose. This is easily proven by a simple survey
of those who practiced political Fascism in the past; it has never been a
political movement of the strong.

Peter: [Real Satanists have confidence and "personal power" as they
determine the course of their lives, to whatever extent is possible in the
society in which they live. There are times when masochists are attracted to
Satanists, and these folk antagonize the Satanist in an attempt to goad them
into exercising their real power (not a postured power). The Satanist, as
LaVey explained, is an Epicurean Sadist, and when such masochists
come-a-calling, the Satanist often says "No" to the symbolic requests for a
"beating," thus turning the masochist's sought after eustress into distress.
But the Satanist's option to say "yes" also exists, and he can then provide
the masochist with the "beating" being requested, only if it gives the
Satanist satisfaction. That some Satanists use fascist-related imagery to
manipulate the herd has nothing to do with their own sense of efficacy. They
don't need it to be bolstered via symbols of any sort. It is simply a matter
of pushing buttons in the mass (or individual) consciousness for their own
ends - as was described above concerning Boyd Rice and Brian Warner. We all
know from history that the real fascist movements fell from power. BUT, only
a fool would ignore the continued power of their iconography over the
popular consciousness. Hence, you don't see any Satanists advocating
neo-fascist political movements - which are currently the purview of those
who feel they have no power over their lives and are looking for scapegoats
to blame for this powerlessness. The neo-Nazis are generally powerless white
folk, who want to try to do what Hitler did in the past. They are clinging
to a sunken ship. Real fascists today use Jesus and Christian moral
righteousness to make their way to power, blaming those who oppose their
morality for the distress their members feel. Their scapegoats are chosen
using their own morality and faith as the criteria. Satanists, for the most
part, clearly oppose Christian concepts of morality and would also oppose
the success of such movements (unless, perhaps, they have the concession for
selling Christian tchotchkes!).]

Stewart: An interesting aside is that these people are idolizing a system of
thought and practice that would see them as its first victims. No genuine
political Fascist would "suffer a Satanist to live."

Peter: [This is correct, in as much as I've said above, that the only forces
poised to effectively create a fascist state in the current Western world
are those motivated by the right-wing Christian coalition. They'd love a
theocracy, but not one dominated by the Vatican as was the last such
political state. As said above, some "politically idealist" Satanists might
advocate a very different kind of fascism, wherein the goals of the state
are defined by Satanists, and the herd follows them (though this is really
quite a "pie-in-the-sky" form of idealism which I find incompatible with the
essential pragmatism of Satanism). And to reiterate what I said above, if
some Satanists want to satisfy themselves with such dreams, they may, so
long as they don't identify them with the aims of the Church of Satan, which
are emphatically not political, nor are they idealistic.]

Stewart: The political and real ideal of Satanism was set forth over 200
years ago and is rooted in the concept of Freedom. Specific examples of
those Freedoms were built into the Constitution of the United States:
freedom of speech, religion, the press, and assembly and petition.

Peter: [We Satanists tend to define the United States as the world's first
"Satanic Republic."

Peter: But you should note that the "founding fathers" did not originally
grant freedom to everyone - it was thought to be a "right" only for those
whom they deemed worthy and capable of intelligent ability to exercise such
freedoms - which originally excluded people such as slaves and women. Thus,
they weren't giving everyone equality, but were advocating freedom for
people whom they defined as equals in ability and capability, an important
distinction that has been lost on many who want to interpret their wisely
constructed governmental structure as being "egalitarian."]

Stewart: Are we to accept any less from an organization, specifically a
Satanic one that supposedly holds the Self sacred, than we demand from our
government? I think not!

Peter: [The Church of Satan is not a political state, but a corporation, and
does not pretend to operate as does the United States government. In
practice, we who administer the organization do as Anton LaVey mandated - we
seek out the assistance of individuals of superior ability to assist in our
goal, which is the dissemination of the philosophy synthesized by Anton
LaVey. This corporation is NOT an autonomous collective, nor is it a
republic or a democracy, and the members have no final say in how it is run.
The members may state their opinions (and should do so, according to one of
our "Rules of the Earth," only when we solicit them). But we who run this
show are under no obligation to act in any way other than as we see fit.
During his life, Anton LaVey was the bottom line for decisions concerning
how the Church of Satan was run. As a member of his Council of Nine for many
years, he often sought my view on matters of import, but he always made his
own final decisions and took the responsibility for them. He picked some of
us to carry on this responsibility, and to do so with the same authority
which he wielded. We do not claim to be doing otherwise, and if people have
joined us under the illusion that they will share in the running of this
corporation simply by paying $100, then they have deluded themselves and are
invited to tender their resignations immediately.]

Stewart: Two hundred years ago, a group of people dedicated to "Nature's
god" looked at the tyranny that they were forced to live with and decided
that such tyranny was no longer to be tolerated or accepted. They pledged
themselves, at the cost of "their lives, fortunes and sacred honor," to
freedom from the tyranny of the "Christian King of Great Britain." The
government they formed in the midst of Revolution was built on principles
Satanists claim as their own: Liberty, Equity and Unity. Liberty: Do as Thou
Wilt. Equity: all have an equal right to Liberty. Unity: those who practice
the principles of Liberty and Equity come together to preserve them,
wherever and whenever they are threatened.

Peter: [Dealt with above - they deemed a select group capable of exercising
these freedoms.]

Stewart: Again, the reader who is paying attention will note that nowhere in
that Satanic ideal will you find anything of the Fascist ideal. Indeed, the
two are anathema to each other. [Depending upon how one defines each of
these ideals - which you treat as absolutes, but which are not.]

Stewart: On an ironic note, it is that very freedom and liberalism that the
Fascist faction finds so abhorrent, that allows the Satanic organization
that they infect to exist! "All religions are equal under the law. The State
should not interfere." Liberals say this.

Peter: [If one is not a member of the "ruling class," but is actually part
of a minority faction in a pluralistic society, then advocating that
"everyone be treated equally under the law" may guarantee that you will have
a maximum amount of personal freedom (if there aren¹t other "power factors"
at work - like wealth). Of course the amount of freedom depends upon the
laws of the society in which one lives and we recognize that special
interest groups often jostle to get more of the "pie" via handouts and
privileges established via state mechanisms) As an aside, Satanists know
that there are no "natural rights" as the concept of rights requires someone
or something to be doling them out, and in the past this is usually
considered to be some God. The only "rights" one has are those given by the
laws of the governmental structure under which you live, and ultimately,
even these devolve into what you may attain for yourself using whatever
personal power you might have. That is why the rich get away with so much
more, as their wealth gives them power and hence, "more rights" in a society
ruled by lawyers and not justice. However, if you belonged to the "ruling
class" you might have a very different perspective. It is true that
self-identified Satanists are currently as I described above, a minority in
a pluralistic society. But what if they achieved a position of being the
"ruling class"? How would clever self-declared Satanists run a government?
What would they advocate? How would they control the masses? This could be a
fine question which could be dealt with in a novel of speculative fiction,
as it is not likely to happen in reality. But, we do know that the people
who really understand how to exercise power on the highest of human levels,
regardless of whatever philosophy they spew as their cover, are actually
maintaining their power by behaving in accordance with the true nature of
the human species, and are thus de facto Satanists.]

Stewart: It can be seen that the ideals of the Fascist have nothing in
common with the ideals of the Satanist, yet here we have a Fascist faction
infecting a Satanic organization.

Peter: [No, it is certainly not true that we have a "Fascist faction
infecting" our Church of Satan. You assert this as fact without offering any
concrete evidence.]

Stewart: What is to be done? The members must either take back the
organization, or they must accept the fact that their organization has been
usurped and conform to the new ideology for conform these Fascists surely
try to make you do! Or they separate themselves and form a new faction. Or
they walk away from the public movement all together. The question I put to
the reader is this: which action is the correct action?

Peter: [It is not the business of the administrators to attempt to argue you
and many of your respondents to this project out of their misprision
regarding this false contention that there is a faction of fascists which
has usurped the Church of Satan. You are wrong. Perhaps now you might be
seeing that you¹ve made an error in your assertions. But, if your
self-proclaimed "anti-fascism clique" (the only "faction" which we
administrators see).....

Peter: .....feels strongly enough in their belief of this fiction, then we
invite all of you to send in your resignations immediately (please use the
San Diego PO Box so that we can close your files with utmost efficiency).
You are advocating that members of the Church of Satan "take back" a
corporation which does not belong to them.

Peter: That sort of "coup" is not possible, and those who advocate such will
not be tolerated as members by this administration. You are hereby advised
to immediately follow your own advice: separate yourselves and form a "new
faction." Your "one true way" attempt to force the entire membership of the
Church of Satan to conform to your opinions is not welcome. It is ironic
that throughout history this has always been the cry of those who want to
establish their own tyranny - the claim to advocate "liberation," which
actually paves the way towards establishing a hegemony which favors their
own special interests. Remember Robespierre? Probably not, else some
perspective would have crept into this "project." So, if any of you has the
"courage of your convictions" we should expect to see your departure, as you
cannot change our methods, which we continue to use exactly as Anton LaVey
mandated we should.

Peter: Additionally, I found it amusing that this whole "project" is spent
railing against the "evils" of fascism. When viewed in a broader
perspective, it simply smacks of jumping on the "politically correct"
bandwagon - "We may be Satanists, but we aren't fascists - heavens no!"

Peter: Such is the usual course of action for those who can't bear to be
without a "goodguy badge." And, as Dr. LaVey pointed out, all wearers of
goodguy badges need an audience - hence the "project" satisfies this dictum.

Stewart: Your concluding paragraph above has the tenor, if not the literary
skills, of missives I recall reading which date from 1975. They were written
by a self-righteous Michael Aquino who had convinced himself that the Church
of Satan had sold-out on its principles. LaVey pointed out to him that he
really didn't understand those principles in the first place and really
didn¹t understand how the organization as a whole was being run. I am now
saying the same to you and those who share your delusion. In some of the
forwarded email exchanges from the "Tani-clique" preceding this "project," I
noted a railing against the concept of hierarchy in the Church of Satan -
redefining it into something non-natural and then shooting it down (the same
tactic as is used in this "fascism project").

Peter: The Church of Satan has a natural hierarchy, wherein titles are
granted by its administration on the basis of merit. But these titles aren't
"frozen." If someone screws up and lets us down, their title, and even their
membership, may be revoked. There are currently members who have titles,
including Magisters and Magistras, whom the Council has decided have been a
disgrace to these titles, abusing these tokens of esteem and using them to
browbeat other members, or as convincers for specious contentions. While we
are patient and generally trust that our original estimation of these people
may again prove to be their norm, if such does not happen speedily, then we
will not hesitate to bring to an end these members¹ affiliation with the
Church of Satan.

Peter: And if anyone doubts that what we are doing is not as LaVey planned,
we can offer evidence concerning protocols for this Church from its very
earliest of days which I must admit we've actually been fairly lax in
maintaining amongst the rabble of our membership online. Recall that LaVey
specified in "The Cloven Hoof" that one of the ways for getting ahead in the
Church of Satan was termed "pleasing the boss." As I¹ve seen in some email
exchanges from this clique, that last word seems to have bothered some of
you. I would posit that there were some less-than-positive employment
situations in the past for those who feel this way. LaVey did see himself as
the head of his Church, though this does not mean that this position meant
anything more or less than it could in a group whose members join and leave
voluntarily. He expected his members and appointed representatives to
instinctually know the boundaries between "Church business," and the
personal "life matters" that always remained up to each individual. Those
who fail to be able to make this distinction will be called to task. In
matters of their own lives, Church of Satan members have complete
sovereignty - they are their own bosses (to paraphrase a current pop tune
lyric, "We ain't the boss of thee"). Members of the Church of Satan have
always been expected to treat each other as "ladies and gentlemen."

Peter: Additionally, those who work at administering the organization ARE
part of a corporate hierarchy, and they are expected to act accordingly.
That includes people who are granted the privilege of representing the
Church of Satan - it comes with specific responsibilities, and if these are
not willingly accepted, then the privilege may honorably be refused. Once
accepted, if these responsibilities are abused, then the position is
revoked. Over the course of the history of our Church, there have often been
times when people had to lay down their titles as they could not continue to
honor the responsibilities which came with them. Did one of our "founding
fathers," General George Washington, confer with all of his soldiers before
he made tactical decisions? No. He consulted with his hand-picked trusted
advisors, then made his choice based on his own evaluations of the facts and
the opinions he received by request. And he expected adherence to his
decisions about this situation in which all were voluntarily involved. That
is the natural way an organized meritocratic group (which seeks to attain a
common goal) works. It is not anarchic, and the leader (boss) does not waste
time soliciting the thoughts of all involved - only the ideas of those who
count in his estimation. That is how LaVey ran the Church of Satan, and that
is how we continue to run the Church of Satan. If any of you are peeved
because you haven't earned a place amongst those whose opinions count, you
only have yourselves to blame.

Peter: For the edification of those who are "anti-hierarchy," we include an
excerpt from "The Cloven Hoof" which delineated precisely how it was
expected that Church of Satan members should deal with each other. LaVey
promoted this ideal, and we are certain that he would be ashamed if he could
witness the sorry spectacle we've had the misfortune of viewing as it takes
place in chat rooms and on Usenet.

Peter:Hail Satan!

Magister Peter H. Gilmore For High Priestess Barton and the rest of the
Council of Nine

**********

Now, I have to wonder - what the hell is he talking about when he brings up
a "Tani Clique"? Does he mean the independents? The independents are the
ones staunchly against any hierarchies. At the time Gilmore wrote this, Tim
saw me (Tani) as part of the hierarchy, even if I didn't quite behave like
that. I was able to get essays for him from people when I mentioned he
wanted them.

**********

This piece below is the piece that was edited out of his fascism project -
it was also posted to alt.satanism:

The Beasts

As the dawn falls and the dusk settles into the dimmed fog, the beast has
again awoke from his slum to embrace the night and once again see what
awaits him beyond the green horizon, envision if you will, other beasts
scattered about, whos intentions are preying on their own species for the
sake of falsified superiority, stratification, and if they are lucky a place
in Hierarchy: All this not for arguments sake, but a contest, a race to the
top: the beast takes a look around and shakes his head at what his own kind
has created, he gets the blame; for it is that title that which is long
"misunderstood" how could something so bound by nature be to blame for
natures fury, in all her might stratification is not a waste, a disposal,
nor is it there to wipe plagues off the earths atmosphere, has this species
been of plague in its own right? It is often times said that, in all history
this race, the beasts have never got along, that is not the problem: the
problem is, in fact, in theory, and throughout histories teachings it is bad
enough when the others prey about on these creatures, with the help of their
own; this is not survival of the fittest, this is war on the self, self
denial, self-deceit. The question that arouses the ears of many is
unification in order for the new millineum: No. However, the time has come
to allow the beast to manifest itself into something that could actually
survive through the ages- and even perhaps They, the faction of the ones
that waged war on their own kind long ago, and in the process eliminated the
lives of that of the beasts.

Anton Szandor LaVey often stated that if you have to ask to be something,
then your probally not qualified. I've never asked, I've never became: I am.
What I am is a Satanist, I am a beast by nature, a Wolf at Hart. For it was
the self destructive beasts that brought me to realize the folly in those
that would destroy me, in attempt to have themselves "Climb" their own way
into "becoming" something they are not: the pretentiousness reigns supreme
in their ranks.

But, we still live on, for every second to minute, minute to hour, hour to
day, day to month, month to year, in a species that dictates others by the
same logic it was used to dictate their own; haven't they ever learned the
lesson, the race is nature in its own right, its flawless, it doesn't know
mistake. If they, the persecuted are a mistake, then everything is a
mistake, the other beasts whom he seen about in the jungle are mistakes; it
is their own fault. They've created this mess, and it is time for revival.

"Iron Handed, Death Defiant, Mighty-Minded!"

Timothy Stewart Student, Satanic Combat Sciences

**********

Now, the above, all of it including possibly this essay "The Beasts," which
was edited out due to irrelevance, is what Peter Gilmore had to have seen,
there can be absooutely no doubt about it - that is what was up on Tim
Stewart's website and what Tim Stewart posted on the COS bulletin board and
on alt.satanism quite a few times.

So, THAT is what Peter Gilmore is responding to Stewart about and reacting
to. I personally fail to see why anyone would over react to it that way.

If Peggy Nadramia sees the anti-fascists "over reacting" to the fascist
ideal SHE is talking about in the COS and ok-ing, - then why would anyone
react to Stewart's project when, as everyone else understod it, it had to do
with ALL Satanism, not just one organization.

Les Masters, Stewart's lover, insists that Stewart's actual intent was to go
after the fascists in ONE organization, the COS. But as it is clear from
the essays people wrote and from email answers Tim Stewart got, no one else
thought it meant that at all. When Stewart got intimidated by Peter's
"large email" he tried to hide behind my apron strings. And when Jacqueline
Davis paid his debts to the webmaster that made his website for him, he
forgot to thank her.

As a result of his behavior, every single person that wrote essays for his
project emailed him and retracted permission to print their articles and
comments. He has some crazy idea that he would publish them in a book as
"his own work" and then maybe pay them royalties! They also emailed me,
every one of them except for ONE (whose essay is gone) and asked me to put
their work on the Satanic Reds Website. That is where it is now.

Two more essays I found for Stewart -

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sat-fasc-014.html

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sat-fasc-016.html

Jeff Gerber replied to one of the pro-Fascist types and gave this to
Stewart:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sat-fasc-0110.html

And I wrote another one for Stewart:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sat-fasc-019.html

These essays never got on Stewart's website because he "forgot" to pay the
person making his website for the work done (which he did promise to pay).
Jacqueline Davis paid the fee for Stewart, just to keep honor. At the time,
Davis kicked Stewart out of the Satanic Combat Science org they had.

All of these essays - and a lot more can now be seen on the SR website at
this url:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sat-fasc.html

End of story, there is nothing more to it.

[Tani Jantsang ©]

LMAO - aside for a few things that were NOT IN the original - I've taken
that out and restored it to the original flavour (yup, Brit spelling on that
one). HA HAAAAAAAAAAA.

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/projectone-orig.html

There ya go. It's hilarious to read his actual text - all posted on
alt.satanism one time or another by him himself - and consider that THIS
actual retard is what remained in the COS - while so many staunch
independents and solid COS members heh - LEFT it. LMAO. This is the idiot
that Gilmore wrote that "rather large email" to - with the predictable
result of having the poor guy cower behind my apron, LMAO. God - what
hilarity. Did you INTEND this to be hilarious?

Looking up the posts from back then, the very people flaming me now were
clearly seeing that this man was seriously retarded, or something like that.
LMAO.

It's also clear that there is no Tani faction present in ANY of those
essays - including those by PRESENT COS members, even ones with titles - and
there were NO problems for COS members who had NO PROBLEMS from the essays
they wrote - BACK THEN, in 2000. So you see, the two events are not
related.

Remembering how terrified he was (re -remembering it) and the rest of what
he did - like forgot he HIRED someone to make him a website (Jacqui paid his
debts for him) oh brother.

Well, we got a bunch of damned good info up there about satanisn AND
fascism - most of it is anti - but some of the actually practicing fascist
orgs have their say too.

I forgot so much of this. That IDIOT was going to publish other people's
essays and then MAYBE give the writers royalties, LMAO - HAAAAAAAAA the idea
of that now, on hindsight, is hilarious. Result was that every single person
on there revoked permission for him to have ANY of it on his website - and
told me to take it and put it on the SR site (which was up at the same
time). LMAO. This brings back some funny memories.

Go ahead, archive fanatic - do your archive thingy. It's on a website now -
LMAO - INCLUDED are his own ORIGINAL UNEDITED texts (good luck reading that
shit).

Bottom line, I posted on here that they no longer had permission to use a
THING coming from us (when they had been using it for a decade) - and I also
said OTHER ORGS COULD use it - and you know, the ohnly other orgs around
back in 2000 were clearly ANTI THEM. so they nyaaa nyaa took the Mag title
away - like I ever used it? LMAO. HA HAAAA, shit - this is a riot.

FINDING his own original essays, I just about doubled over laughing when I
tried to read them again.

Tani


"Tani Jantsang �" <***@SPAMpost.com> wrote in message news:_M7xd.3658$***@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...