Christian Satanists

[SOD of the CoE]

"user" <***@user.com>:
# They are the ones who worship the christian bible's SATAN as a real
# being with wings and horns. They are the one's who sacrifice kittens,

Gummo stupidity

# collect serial killer bubble-gum cards,

these have mass-murderers and those who brought them to justice too.
some of these have very excellent information on them.

# hate Bob Larson,

his books tend to suck, frankly, so their hatred is merited.
that said, he and Rush (Limbaugh!) are probably the best they hear.

# and listen to Slayer, Ozzy and Judas Priest records backwards.

see Baddeley, Moynihan for interviews with them.

now talking about how these Satanists arose:
# ...the christian[']s anti-satanic propaganda literature created these
# Satanists through there own paranoia put in their anti-satanic
# literature.

it wasn't just Christians. some Neopagans did that too, and probably
a whole bunch of non-Christians who got fooled, took for a ride.

http://www.satanservice.org/propaganda/

and the DELUSION was worse than the propaganda

http://www.satanservice.org/delusion/

# They acted like experts on Satanism in their literature,

and the education level of those listening to them was sufficiently
low that it didn't matter that they didn't *really* sound like
experts. some of them got slick enough to approach police departments
and start seminars and training programs. people even went to jail
in combination with the Fabricated Memory Syndrome after Pazder.

but the Satanic Panic wasn't necessary to create these Christian
Satanists. they would probably arise within their own families
regardless as long as there was a market for that type of music.
it doesn't take much to make a music subculture. it's keen.

# but seldom consulted with real Satanists

that's YOUR problem. if you don't think of them as "real Satanists"
then perhaps you could say a few things about how they aren't real,
and what makes a Satanist real? fangs and blue pupils or something?

# and were afraid to read the Satanist's literature.

you must be talking about the Black Pope of Darksville,
HP LaVey; thanks for the art Anton.

# They thought The Satanic Bible or Necronomicon had Casper the
# ghost hanging around it and if they opened it and looked
# at it's pages it might change their mind, ohh noo!

books do that. Magic Books are supposed to have other affects.

# Why do people criticize ideas or things that they have no
# knowledge about?

mostly because of our ignorance. we do it in order to feel good,
relishing the smashing of the inferior art or religious impulse,
and due to our ignorance we criticize that about which we know
almost nothing. it happens in public all the time. funny at times.

# Pastor Bob from the enlightened circle of the path of the bible
# inspired, christian rainbow , bunny huggers told me it was so!
# So I believe it!

some paths are belief-based, that's correct.

# The 80's Satanist, most of the time, had big hair like the 80's rock
# stars, smoked a lot of weed and hunted blonde hair and blue-eyed
# virgins on the weekends.

ordinary.

# Beware! The 80's scene hasn't come back, YET!
# LOL! Christians created the 80's Satanists!

Satanists arose from within a Christian culture.

# "Your going to burn in HELL!"
# -Twisted Sister

"*You*, will go, to *HELL*!"
-Alice Cooper

# P.s. I am not against Slayer, great band!

you're against Judas Priest and Ozzy? Jeezuz!
Slayer I can understand dissing, even the Priest-dood,
but Ozzy? hmm, you sure that's real black nailpolish?

# "9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had,
# as he has kept in business all these years!"
# -TSB, Anton Szandor LaVey

\ Since Satanism is essentially a religion of the self,
\ it holds that the individual and his personal needs comes first.
\ If that means playing with trains or spike-heeled shoes or
\ singing in the bathtub, those are its sacraments and devotions.
\ Taking inventory of old comic books is counting beads on a rosary,
\ each book being a station of the cross.
\ "The World's Most Powerful Religion", ASL, CH#127.
\ also at http://www.satanservice.org/theory/cospwrfl.txt

oo dueling quotations, blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/

[SOD of the CoE]

Uzytkownik:
#> Of course they exist.

not so fast. quite possibly their Christian character prevents them
from actually being Satanists (like a half-mutated pupa that never
becomes a butterfly).

#> Prior to LaVey's new paradigm of Satanism, the "Satanists" of old

weren't called 'Satanists'.

#> were really nothing more that practitioners of a
#> sort of inverted form of Christianity.

or blaspheming. even Satanists can be observed doing this.

#> All the black magic,

this one is too general. 'black magic' seems to have been a winnowing
acceptance of the previously slandered 'magic' -- those nasty Persian
priests and their weird rites.

#> demonology,

associated with Faustian pacts and any number of anti-Christian fable.

#> sacrifices to Satan, etc. were based on Christian mythology.

quite so, or its inversion.

"I" <***@x.x>:
# I've read that in times of medieval Christian persecutions against "witches"
# many of those who had no contact with magic or dark cults but were accused
# and tortured ....

under torture all things are possible, but not sincere.

# ...Their thinking was "if they hurt me because they think I'm on
# Satan's side, maybe Satan would help me if I really became his follower and
# prayed to him for help".

not really a Christian, if so, though potentially a member of the
subset of the Javeyan mythos.

# A similar contemporary reaction was to observe in
# some countries, in which the Church was strong but LaVeyan thoughts had not
# reached these countries until recently. Those opposing the power and the
# moral code of Christianity decided they want to be on the other side of this
# battle, but having no fantasy to define it different that the Church did
# became Satan's followers accepting the Christian mythology in which God was
# reinterpreted as an evil emperor.

humanism and atheism aren't sufficient to depose these religious beliefs?
we have to have LaVey's very paltry addition? I think this speculation
without much basis.

# Sometimes they added the local mythology
# to it - for example in Eastern Europe there are many traditional tales about
# the devil depicting him as a being which was friendly, tricksterous, wanting
# to help those who were "outcasts" of the "good society", an "evil" but
# familiar "bud", not a horrible, majestic being out of reach. You can find
# many traces of this picture in literature, especially Russian literature.

while the above material is true (ref: krampus, Knecht Ruprecht, see the URL:
http://www.luckymojo.com/devil.html ).

#> Take Richard Ramirez, the "Night Stalker," for example. He described
#> himself as a Satanist

quotes? I know he drew a pentacle on his hand. oo cue scary music.

#> and truly believed in the entity of Satan,

how can we assess 'true belief'? I'd accept your contention based on his
actual, clear expression, of course.

#> who of course is the rival god of the god of Christianity.

NOT of course. depends on the Satanist.

#> By accepting the dual-god universe of Christian mythology,
#> Ramirez really was a Christian,

if a dual-god. many presume that accepting the term "Satanist"
at all implies this, when in fact it does not.

#> though he imagined he was opposing Christianity....

if he was, then he wasn't a Christian, no matter whether he did
consider the universe ruled by Jehovah.

# Christians themselves define Christians as those who _worship_ their God and
# Jesus, not those who believe their theories on the spiritual world or take
# their symbolism choosing another lord. Even in the Bible there's a passage
# which reads that "the demons believe too".

it varies, as most things religious. focus of worship is a helpful
indicator. those who worship Satan and believe in the Christian
cosmology (Jehovah the Creator made it all including Satan) are in
part Christians (in how they see the world) but primarily Satanists
(in how they're conducting their worship). it should be said that
numerous Satanists don't claim to worship anything at all, and some
claim to worship other things besides Satan, while serving Hir.

#I find the hysteria against
# accepting anything from the Christian mythology funny, because even the name
# of Satan is a Judeo-christian name

office, in "Job".

# and it's Christianity that has assigned to Satan the values which
# Satanists confess,

not entirely. usually the Christians paint the Devil completely
and utterly morally corrupt without any kind of admirable
qualities. Satanists find admirable qualities about Satan and
use this as a lever away from their contextual religious backdrop.

# it's Christianity that has made
# the image of Satan prominent and powerful (none of the "evil" Pagan gods
# was so powerful in teachings of his religion)

this is only somewhat accurate. there were and are "Pagan" gods which are
wrathful and dangerous. it so happens that few form in cults around the
beings described in that manner, but this is to be expected. usually the
worshippers of gods like Kali the Goddess of Disease are attempting to
*placate* them, appease them in some way.

your point that most pantheons don't have anti-Gods is self-evident, tho.
we might point to Ahriman, again, as a good "pagan" example that lies
right behind Satan as depicted in Christianity (cf. JBRussell).

# and it's Christianity that has
# provoked the very idea of taking the name of "evil" with pride due to what
# Christianity became.

I doubt that Christianity is alone in this respect.

# Speaking of "LaVey's new paradigm of Satanism" is funny
# as well in this context, because his "circus" with dressing like Satan was a
# homage to the Christian myths -

not just the Christian myths but the stories of 'devils', theriomorph
nature-spirits, niggling pixie-kin, etc.

# who depicted Satan as a man with a beard
# dressed in black and red, holding a "fork"?

French, from what I can tell, who tended toward atheism.
we might associate this figure with Faustian Mephistopheles.

# The ancient Egyptians? The
# "style" of "evil image" which LaVey manifested was using in excess Christian
# symbols assigned by Christianity to Satan

it is not my impression that LaVey made an issue of Satan being an anti-God,
or paid any attention to the Christian cosmology, disputing it completely.

# and even if it was pure
# provocation, there was a lot of "Christianity" in what LaVey did, if you
# want to understand "Christianity" as anything which refers to Christian
# myths.

that's the problem with folding everything to relates to what grapples
and overthrows a thing with the thing itself. it gives Christianity
too much weight and authority such that it even includes what opposes
it, what turns on it and bites it back with its own propaganda.

instead, LaVey issued the proclamation that what Satanism was is trans-
cultural and that Satanism was only a Christian-based incidence of
anti-religion. this is why (he explained) the Black Masses which
included travesties of Roman Catholicism were discontinued -- they were
'burned out' for the members doing them as deconditioning technology.

those who criticize Satanism as beholden to Christianity are usually
religious who are competing with Christians and don't want to
recognize that LaVey was pointing toward an anti-religious alternative
that eventually led to a type of epicurean self-refinement.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/

[SOD of the CoE]

<***@dprk.com>:
# But LaVey dressed that way PRECISELY because the imagery was from xian
# mythology.

correct.

# The point he was trying to make is that "Satan" was an
# imaginary figure, a fantasy in effect, and by invoking traditional xian
# imagery he showed that the imagery/figure of satan had no substance.

precisely. it was a deconditioning exercise, what is sometimes
called "Greater Black Magick" or a "Black Mass" (for Christians).
I understand that few outside the world of Satanism truly know
what LaVey and the Church of Satanism were attempting with their
Black Masses. instead visions of King-poisoners and goat-headed
abortionists dance in their heads.

# He was trying to reach a Western audience, so had he invoked the
# imagery of evil and darkness from say, Zen Buddhism, it would have
# had no meaning to his audience.

O-Yama, or something similar may have applied here, yes.
this is why so many 'demonic' or 'devil-like' gods and
anti-gods ought to be identified by the Satanists: they
may become imperative to the cultures who read us.

# I mentioned (snipped) that since we LaVeyan Satanists have no
# true belief in xian mythology at all, we have no problem at
# all PLAYING with it.

having 'no trouble' playing with it is one thing, *having to
play with it* is another. former Christians engaging Satanism
probably *need* to get over it through Black Masses. those who
did not have that kind of conditioning upbringing probably do
not need it at all, or may require something more overt and
less ritualistic, less group-oriented, etc.

# To us, the xian universe of
# heaven and hell is just an entertaining story, with no more reality
# than "Alice in Wonderland" or "The Wizard of Oz." LaVey specifically
# mentions the need for fantasy in our lives, yet warns that we must
# recognize the difference between fantasy and reality

agreed.

# - something most xians cannot do.

something that most religious cannot seem to do.

# LaVey happened to enjoy traditonal xian imagery,

why? wasn't he Jewish? maybe he didn't *enjoy* it so much as that
he understood the value of it in what he was doing. we should not
rule out deep sociopolitical wrangling here between Jews and
Roman Catholics.

# so chose to present himself in a way that suggested the xian devil.

the issue becomes what alternatives there were and how he might have
been *less* campy and cartoonish than he was. I don't know how, but
apparently he was very into hierarchies and obeisance early on, so
this was definitely some Miltonian or other Throne-sitting monarch.

# The fact is that he KNEW he was not the devil, his
# imagery was intended to shock xians who could not distinguish
# between fantasy and reality, and thus expose their stupidity.

this removes its deconditioning aspects, which are arguably far
more important for *those involved who are former Christians*
than for any Christians that might have witnessed the event or
had it described for them later.

also, media-manipulation was afoot. membership rolls were being
generated. several potentially conflicting aims were here
coalescing to support the continuation of the inversions.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/

[Tani Jantsang ©]

Post by SOD of the CoE
# But LaVey dressed that way PRECISELY because the imagery was from xian
# mythology.
correct.
# The point he was trying to make is that "Satan" was an
# imaginary figure, a fantasy in effect, and by invoking traditional xian
# imagery he showed that the imagery/figure of satan had no substance.

That's what they said later. Is that what they said at first?
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/lavey-devil.html
See his own words to that effect, then - EARLY words.

Post by SOD of the CoE
precisely. it was a deconditioning exercise, what is sometimes
called "Greater Black Magick" or a "Black Mass" (for Christians).
I understand that few outside the world of Satanism truly know
what LaVey and the Church of Satanism were attempting with their
Black Masses. instead visions of King-poisoners and goat-headed
abortionists dance in their heads.

"The Devil Rides out" or the movie "The Devil's Bride" with Chris Lee. That
was portrayed as witchcraft.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# He was trying to reach a Western audience, so had he invoked the
# imagery of evil and darkness from say, Zen Buddhism, it would have
# had no meaning to his audience.

There is no evil in darkness in Buddhism. There is what might be considered
evil in the sense of folly or being obscured by illusions. Makahala means
the Great Darkness - it's not evil.

Post by SOD of the CoE
O-Yama, or something similar may have applied here, yes.
this is why so many 'demonic' or 'devil-like' gods and
anti-gods ought to be identified by the Satanists: they
may become imperative to the cultures who read us.

These are nothing but towo or fiersome forms of the CONCEPTS (not beings) of
dhyanni buddhas that represent the 5 dharmas. They are not evil. To think
they are evil is to think "western" and project that crap into another
culture.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# I mentioned (snipped) that since we LaVeyan Satanists have no
# true belief in xian mythology at all, we have no problem at
# all PLAYING with it.
having 'no trouble' playing with it is one thing, *having to
play with it* is another. former Christians engaging Satanism
probably *need* to get over it through Black Masses. those who
did not have that kind of conditioning upbringing probably do
not need it at all, or may require something more overt and
less ritualistic, less group-oriented, etc.
# To us, the xian universe of
# heaven and hell is just an entertaining story, with no more reality
# than "Alice in Wonderland" or "The Wizard of Oz." LaVey specifically
# mentions the need for fantasy in our lives, yet warns that we must
# recognize the difference between fantasy and reality
agreed.
# - something most xians cannot do.
something that most religious cannot seem to do.
# LaVey happened to enjoy traditonal xian imagery,
why? wasn't he Jewish?

Why do you keep saying that? The evidence from Zeena's legit family trace
doesn't show that LaVey or LeVey (pronounced le-VEY) was Jewish. Slavic,
yes. Point is, LaVey didn't at first do anything inversionist Jewish (he
wouldn't dare do it - he'd have not gotten the good press he got if he did
that!). See, you can be anti Christian. You can be anti Muslim too. You
can be anti Buddhist. But you can NOT be anti Jewish, babe. If you are,
you will be branded a Nazi - or worse will happen!

maybe he didn't *enjoy* it so much as that

Post by SOD of the CoE
he understood the value of it in what he was doing. we should not
rule out deep sociopolitical wrangling here between Jews and
Roman Catholics.

So far, that's just a theory, Bobo. Even my Uzbeki Moslem cousins living in
NJ cities knew about "Satanic Black Masses" from TV - from movies. At least
I DID see a Catholic High Mass once in my life - I demanded to go on Xmas
eve to see one at St. Rocco's Church. I couldn't understand a word they
said - it was in Latin - the entire place was filled with Italians and
Sicilians, it was very solemn, a kind of quiet solemn - the mass itself was
sort of spooky imo, but it was very pretty, too - and then the woman, at the
end, sang THE SONG, she must have been an opera singer. Ave Maria is STILL
my favorite song. :)

Post by SOD of the CoE
# so chose to present himself in a way that suggested the xian devil.
the issue becomes what alternatives there were and how he might have
been *less* campy and cartoonish than he was. I don't know how, but
apparently he was very into hierarchies and obeisance early on, so
this was definitely some Miltonian or other Throne-sitting monarch.
# The fact is that he KNEW he was not the devil, his
# imagery was intended to shock xians who could not distinguish
# between fantasy and reality, and thus expose their stupidity.

Is this true at the beginning? That's what the COS said later on - but at
first? People that were high up in it say that is NOT true at first.
And then there are his own early words
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/lavey-devil.html

Post by SOD of the CoE
this removes its deconditioning aspects, which are arguably far
more important for *those involved who are former Christians*
than for any Christians that might have witnessed the event or
had it described for them later.

The only problem with the "deconditioning" theory is that using an inversion
ceremony utilizing the anti-god of your own religion to "decondition" you is
NOT going to decondition a thing. Using rational logic as atheists do,
using scientific proof as skeptical societies do - that would work. But
using demonic ceremonies is just going to invert what is STILL a religion.
People do not get "deprogrammed" away froma religion by being given an
inversion of their religion - or given another religion. Any psychologist
would explain that to you. It's the same as when western people get into
eastern stuff - they are the ones who can NOT get that "god spirit" knee
jerk feeling out of their brains. We don't have any such thing in ours to
start with. They are the ones that turn something as normal as "chi" into
something supernatural. They also turn melting snow into something
supernatural, or long distance running into the supernatural - ONLY IF a
person from the east is doing it. It's the way western brains work, imo.

Post by SOD of the CoE
also, media-manipulation was afoot. membership rolls were being
generated. several potentially conflicting aims were here
coalescing to support the continuation of the inversions.
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/

[SOD of the CoE]

"Tani Jantsang ©" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# That's what they said later. Is that what they said at first?
# See his own words to that effect, then - EARLY words.

unsure that's relevant. discovery through time is appropos too.

#># LaVey happened to enjoy traditonal xian imagery,
#>
#> why? wasn't he Jewish?
#
# Why do you keep saying that?....

I don't believe Satanists at face value re personal issues.
the etymology and resemblance of 'Levey' / 'LaVey' / 'Levi'
is too strong to willy-nilly neglect based on some haphazard
report by someone who may have an interest in skewing data.

# ...Point is, LaVey didn't at first do anything inversionist
# Jewish (he wouldn't dare do it - he'd have not gotten the
# good press he got if he did that!)....

that's because he was living in a Christian context.
follow the thread of the conversation please.

#># The fact is that he KNEW he was not the devil, his
#># imagery was intended to shock xians who could not distinguish
#># between fantasy and reality, and thus expose their stupidity.
#
# Is this true at the beginning? That's what the COS said later
# on - but at first?

again, not necessarily important if they re-evaluated through time.

# People that were high up in it say that is NOT true at first.

"were" high up. this may imply dissonant interests, competing, etc.

#> this removes its deconditioning aspects, which are arguably far
#> more important for *those involved who are former Christians*
#> than for any Christians that might have witnessed the event or
#> had it described for them later.
#
# The only problem with the "deconditioning" theory is that using an
# inversion ceremony utilizing the anti-god of your own religion to
# "decondition" you

your description doesn't include the satire.

# is NOT going to decondition a thing.

why not?

# Using rational logic as atheists do, using scientific proof
# as skeptical societies do - that would work.

always? sounds pretty dogmatic.

# But using demonic ceremonies

simplistic. you sure you read LaVey's writing on this?

# is just going to invert what is STILL a religion.

duh. but inversion without replacement is deconditioning
for the original religion, which is the interest.

# People do not get "deprogrammed" away from a religion by
# being given an inversion of their religion

doing it, Tani, doing it.

# - or given another religion.

my guess is that conversion destabilizes fundamentalism in
some, but not others, blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/

[Tani Jantsang ©]

Post by SOD of the CoE
# That's what they said later. Is that what they said at first?
# See his own words to that effect, then - EARLY words.
unsure that's relevant. discovery through time is appropos too.
#># LaVey happened to enjoy traditonal xian imagery,
#>
#> why? wasn't he Jewish?
#
# Why do you keep saying that?....
I don't believe Satanists at face value re personal issues.
the etymology and resemblance of 'Levey' / 'LaVey' / 'Levi'
is too strong to willy-nilly neglect based on some haphazard
report by someone who may have an interest in skewing data.

I thought he was Jewish for a time too (prior to that, I thought he was
Gypsy) - but I rethought that after meeting THREE people with the name
Levey - all of them were French Catholics - none were Jewish. What Zeena
researched can be found out easily enough - she gave names, dates, places.
Levy is a Jewish name from the Levites. But Levey is not the same name as
Levy.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...Point is, LaVey didn't at first do anything inversionist
# Jewish (he wouldn't dare do it - he'd have not gotten the
# good press he got if he did that!)....
that's because he was living in a Christian context.
follow the thread of the conversation please.

Judeo-Christianity? That is what people thought of anything "Christian"
back then. No one separated the two.

Post by SOD of the CoE
#># The fact is that he KNEW he was not the devil, his
#># imagery was intended to shock xians who could not distinguish
#># between fantasy and reality, and thus expose their stupidity.
#
# Is this true at the beginning? That's what the COS said later
# on - but at first?
again, not necessarily important if they re-evaluated through time.

They? Anton is one person, not "they." Ah, you mean atheists took over his
organization? That is irrelevant when/if evaluating what HE thought -
dismissing what THEY think now that he's gone and has no say in the matter.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# People that were high up in it say that is NOT true at first.
"were" high up. this may imply dissonant interests, competing, etc.

That is spin. His letters to me don't indicate that the spin holds true at
all. They were written in the 1990s.

Post by SOD of the CoE
#> this removes its deconditioning aspects, which are arguably far
#> more important for *those involved who are former Christians*
#> than for any Christians that might have witnessed the event or
#> had it described for them later.
#
# The only problem with the "deconditioning" theory is that using an
# inversion ceremony utilizing the anti-god of your own religion to
# "decondition" you
your description doesn't include the satire.
# is NOT going to decondition a thing.
why not?

Because it doesn't work. It simply does not work. That is not the way
anyone that DOES deconditioning would go about successfully deconditioning
anyone. I refer to the Chinese Maoists and what they DID to two Americanist
to the bone CIA agents. They DECONDITIONED them - for real - and for good!
THAT is how you do it. Applying pressures ala Stockholm Syndrome victims
also works. Patty Hearst was DEconditioned, eg.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# Using rational logic as atheists do, using scientific proof
# as skeptical societies do - that would work.
always? sounds pretty dogmatic.

Yes, always, if you do it with a few other little things at the same time -
yes - IT WORKS. You can still see "satanists" praying - praying to
SOMETHING - if a loved one gets really sick and they get worried about it
enough. That means they are not deconditioned at all. They just wear
another color robe.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# But using demonic ceremonies
simplistic. you sure you read LaVey's writing on this?
# is just going to invert what is STILL a religion.
duh. but inversion without replacement is deconditioning
for the original religion, which is the interest.

You aren't making sense.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# People do not get "deprogrammed" away from a religion by
# being given an inversion of their religion
doing it, Tani, doing it.

You mean, you think you are doing it. You are, imo, still a VERY relgious
person - maybe you don't realize that?

Post by SOD of the CoE
# - or given another religion.
my guess is that conversion destabilizes fundamentalism in
some, but not others, blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/

[SOD of the CoE]

"Tani Jantsang ©" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
#># Using rational logic as atheists do, using scientific proof
#># as skeptical societies do - that would work. But using
#># demonic ceremonies is just going to invert what is STILL
#># a religion.

bobo said:
#> duh. but inversion without replacement is deconditioning
#> for the original religion, which is the interest.

an inversion of a religions rites is not another religion,
though it can be turned toward one. your analyses of what
constitutes or qualifies as religion are not stated, and
when implied are awkward and ignorant, from what I can see.


#># People do not get "deprogrammed" away from a religion by
#># being given an inversion of their religion
#>
#> doing it, Tani, doing it.


Tani Jantsang:
# You mean, you think you are doing it.

you're very bad at telling me what I mean. please don't
do that. I thought we agreed about that a while back.
if you don't know what I mean, please ask or ignore it.

since I *was not conditioned within a Christian cultural
upbringing*, what I did did not include any kind of
inversion of religious rituals.


# You are, imo, still a VERY relgious person -

maybe by your lax use of language. I am part of no
organized religion. I *definitely* consider myself
spiritual, and distinguish this from religious
participation (my religion is Satanism and that is
primarily independent, not integrated to a Herd).


# maybe you don't realize that?

please elaborate. you're probably right that
I don't agree. :>

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/

[Tani Jantsang ©]

Post by SOD of the CoE
#># Using rational logic as atheists do, using scientific proof
#># as skeptical societies do - that would work. But using
#># demonic ceremonies is just going to invert what is STILL
#># a religion.
#> duh. but inversion without replacement is deconditioning
#> for the original religion, which is the interest.
an inversion of a religions rites is not another religion,
though it can be turned toward one. your analyses of what
constitutes or qualifies as religion are not stated, and
when implied are awkward and ignorant, from what I can see.

Look up Stockholm Syndrome. Check out real deconditioning procedures.

Post by SOD of the CoE
#># People do not get "deprogrammed" away from a religion by
#># being given an inversion of their religion
#>
#> doing it, Tani, doing it.
# You mean, you think you are doing it.
you're very bad at telling me what I mean. please don't
do that. I thought we agreed about that a while back.
if you don't know what I mean, please ask or ignore it.
since I *was not conditioned within a Christian cultural
upbringing*, what I did did not include any kind of
inversion of religious rituals.
# You are, imo, still a VERY relgious person -
maybe by your lax use of language. I am part of no
organized religion. I *definitely* consider myself
spiritual, and distinguish this from religious
participation (my religion is Satanism and that is
primarily independent, not integrated to a Herd).

That doesn't matter. You even make some "distinction" between herd and non
herd. Heh. I don't expect you to quite get that one.

Post by SOD of the CoE
# maybe you don't realize that?
please elaborate. you're probably right that
I don't agree. :>

You are VERY MUCH LIKE a lot of white people cerebrally trying to
"categorize" things in a preconceived group of slots. I just gave up on a
few things you just did NOT get, no matter HOW I tried to get around your
own paradigm and explain it another way. No use. I gave up. When a person
can't get it - give up.

I could not tell you what "religion" I am on any given day, Bobo. I just
can't. It's just not possible. I can YIN, however, and hand you a label
(Lamaist, or Shamanist or whatever). I could not tell you my specific
political views on any given day, either. It's all the same to me, a view,
an idea, a theory - all subject to constant change, even by the HOUR at
times. I am INWARDLY very nomadic that way (rhp people see that as chaotic,
or think I'm a liar! - and so lately I have YINNED to that too and said, ok,
sure, I am that go for it - as if ANY of it matters in any scheme of things,
grand or small) - and this is what you do NOT seem to be able to get. I am
not a religious person - and never was. I do not consider ANYTHING I do
spiritual - tho I know that western people most definitely DO consider it as
such. Whatever. For me, it's one BIG whatever. You asked me if I thought
Barton was a liar or lying for instance. Uh, that was not long before or
after you defacto accused HER of lying when I showed you some "Does ASL
believe in the devil" quotes from VERY reliable sources in his own org -
written sources. Heh. You do that a LOT. I don't stop and think (self
consciously?) whether or not something I do is herd or non herd. You
accused me of not answering you for some reason like that - and so then I
thought of things I do that are HERD and told you. Herd, non-herd - these
are more NON issues to me. I dip into whatever I wish to dip into - and
dipping into usually involves a CLUB or the BEACH and those are very herd
things. I have fun there WITH OTHER PEOPLE THERE. I have no problem with
that. I don't STOP, EXAMINE IT, LOOK at it as if I'm outside of it and
analyze it. I just DO. DOing involves the NOW - not looking back on it or
looking at it from outside. When I'm DOing - I am in the everpresent NOW.
This seems to be something you can't seem to get either - you never tend to
get it when I try to explain it. You KEEP trying to cubby hole it - and
that right there is very religious, very white, and very cerebral. And very
very one dimensional. You also rely on uninformed hearsay too much - which
I see as shit that fits into a preconceived agenda. That makes me feel that
you ask questions to things you have no interest in getting answers to that
DISagree with your preconceived notions.

As to the yielding to perceptions by what I consider dismissable non entity
idiots and real life wackos - I can say that I have NEVER ripped anyone off,
I am 100% straight on business deals and delivery of goods. THAT matters -
that's real.

OH, and in case you missed it, Lupo came on here and INFORMED your
misinformed Kori that he indeed was THE ONE that made the blue/white collar
assessments regarding cos and tos members. Not I. I also told you
straight what constitutes published proof of use of WHICH SPECIFIC documents
called Roots 1 and 2 by the cos. It had nothing to do with the tos at all
or any org war. No such thing existed at the time as far as I know - and
the Roots 1 and 2 articles have nothing to do with any org wars for or
against anyone. Gilmore happens to know a GREAT DEAL about the USA and the
Founding Fathers - but he thanked us profusely for the info opening the door
to the roots of this trend in western civilization - and that IS Orphic and
Pythagorean stuff - all of it basicallhy pre-Socratic information not easy
to find. I'm sure that if the tos had those documents, they might LIKE them
too.

Post by SOD of the CoE
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/