Hi to both Bobo and Joseph, see in.
Post by SOD of the CoE50041231 viii om Hael Satan!
#>#> ...a certain *character* of expression,
#>#> like "Satanism is..." or even "to me, Satanism is..." and better
#>#> "Satan is..." "I think of Satan as positive because...".
# Of the evolution of myth. Devils are but the Gods of conquered
# peoples.
True, or they are deities that are perceived as devilish or dangerous by
outsiders to the culture.
Post by SOD of the CoEsimultaneously coincident with such authors as JBRussell and those
even who appear to have cavorted with devils, such as Crowley. the
contention about devils from the outside is not first-person and
therefore not someone's contention about their Satanism, which was
my intention in description above.
#># Satanism is what a person WILL DO, automatically,
#># when and if they are directly in touch with that
#># Boundless Darkness
# But what is this "boundless darkness"? what does it mean,
# what does it do?
What does it NOT do is a better question. If is infused in all things of
nature, it urges them on, motivates them. Part of this "Thatness" is
formulated on here:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/entropy.html
Post by SOD of the CoEwhile I cannot answer for Tani, I can provide my best guess as to
what she might say. the boundless darkness cannot truly be defined
or clearly identified.
Right, but as shown above (url) some of what it does CAN be quantified, seen
and measured (which blows my mind!!!)
it is called by a variety of names, some of
Post by SOD of the CoEwhich she has laid out in other contexts, such as Mahakala. all of
the various referents are just different ways of saying the same
thing and referencing some kind of internal experience.
Internal first, then external also - and even as shown in url, some geniuses
measured it.
Post by SOD of the CoE#># that infuses the parts of nature that are emanated from
#># the Light.
#
# I understand certain myths suggest or claim we (the physical
# universe) come from the light "let there be light" and all
# that but it does not really explain anything,
CF Big Bang - point singularity - that's the "light" before it went bang and
expanded. That explains a lot in scientific terms.
Post by SOD of the CoEattempting to salvage the most literal interpretation first,
it might mean something literal if 'light' refers to energy.
at that point one might bring to the discussion the variable
appearance of energy and mass and their rough equation with
respect to the speed of light (ask Einstein how he got it).
# at best this "light" is explained as a metaphor,
It's no metaphor.
Post by SOD of the CoEeven for energy, I'd wager, though I tried above to make it
into something more fanciful.
# and even if there is a physical corollary i have not had it
# explained to me and doubt any one has come up with a convincing
# explanation of how "light" tuned into matter.
See science for origin of universe and how the point singularity and such
became hardened, i.e., MASS.
E =Mc 2 i understand at
Post by SOD of the CoE# least in theory but the usual religious explanations for this "light"
# and its conversion or "fall" into matter have not been resolved,
# satisfactorily, at least to me. Even taking the mathmatical equation at
# face value as a type of explination for the phenomina it does not
# explain why the phenomina "is" merely how it functions.
Why it is, is why it is. Why is the universe expanding? We know it IS doing
that, but why? Heh. It's the "WHAT IS."
Post by SOD of the CoEthe 'why' of phenomena is always unavailable to us and
inferred by multitudinous mythologies and imaginative tales.
Not so. The "WHY" of a lot of the stuff we talk about at least, IS
explained scientifically and more - it is USED in technology. As Heisenberg
said I think to Einstein - it doesn't matter if we know the literal WHAT IS
IT regarding electrons - are these particles or waves or whatever. We can
USE it - DO things with it.
Post by SOD of the CoE#># They will DO the Will of that Boundless Darkness and their
#># own Will, it will be One Will.
#
# Are you writing of primal, instinctual, animalistic reaction
# to the universe? And "Satan" and "darkness" somehow
# exemplifying this?
No. It's not anthropomorphic. See formula and explanation in URL I just
gave. Life and all things WILL DO that - whether they want to or now,
whether they know they do it, or not.
Post by SOD of the CoEthat one I can't really guess. it sounds about right.
#> I read something keen today. summary of Satan's Master Plan according
#> to LaVey and Barton: the aim is the overthrow of mystical-religions
#> ("The Church of Satan").
Mystical religion is on the rise for one very simple reason: society is in
chaos and the economy SUCKS. So their master plan is a pipe dream. I
believe they were also against pipe dreaming and thought only fools pipe
dream - and I agree on that point. It's better to know WHY such ideas arise
in society and proliferate, than try to overthrow them. Give everyone a good
job with lots of leisure and a really GOOD living wage, no threats of
terrorist bogeymen around every corner (while the borders are wide
open.....) - and religion of all kinds will fade (again). That's how you
combat it. Question is, WHY would anyone set out to combat it with no clue
as to HOW to combat it and no ability to do it at all? Those people can't
FIX the society or economy at all. So their master plan is a pipe dream. I
can't see Anton making up a plan like that - the man was NOT a pipe dreamer.
Post by SOD of the CoE"To completely overthrow mystically-oriented
religions, Satanists choose active opposition."
------------------------------------------------
-- Anton Szandor LaVey
in "The Church of Satan", by Blanche Barton,
Hell's Kitchen Productions, 1991; p. 79.
Ah, she wrote that. He did not write that.
Post by SOD of the CoE================================================
# Some people have had a limited amount of success in "overthrowing"
# religion and mysticism. "The opiate of the masses and all that".
# Yet i would tend to agree with the Confucian point of view about
# it and human nature, no matter how irrational it may be, the human
# animal has a tendency towards superstitious awe of the universe and seeks
# to propitiate it with fetish and taboo, the Lars and Pente. And the powers
# that be would probly be more successful in co opting it and using it to
# their own benefit rather than fighting against it *consider the most
# recent U.S. election). If the human animal ever gets rid of religion it
# will probly be more due to a maturing of the species, like an individual
# "growing up" hopefully, at some point the species as a whole will untie
# the apron strings that still bind it to "The Great Parent".
so it seems that you substantially agree with ASLaVey and TJantsang.
as their 'mysticism' is sloggy and extreme, it is difficult not to.
however, I'd suggest that neither of them had a very thorough
understanding of the breadth to which what is called "mysticism"
might be applied, as has become apparent in recent conversation
about such topic in this forum. since Tani says that she doesn't
really care if her language is understood and conforms to standard
conventions on the topic of mysticism (indicating that any semblance
between hers and the terminology, for example, of contemplatives,
is completely unintentional and that the "special" quality of
mysticism obviates her "everyday experience" to another category),
I turn instead to LaVey, whose expression on mysticism seems about
I don't see how doing "spells" is anti mystical. I don't see how even
knowing the names of those deities or devils of other cultures is anti
mystical.
Post by SOD of the CoEHail Satan!
It has become very fashionable to concentrate on the
betterment of the mind and spirit, and to consider
giving pleasure to one's body (the very shell
without which the mind and spirit could not exist)
to be coarse, crude, and unrefined. AS OF LATE, MOST
PEOPLE WHO DEEM THEMSELVES EMANCIPATED HAVE LEFT
NORMALCY ONLY TO "TRANSCEND" INTO IDIOCY! By way of
bending their behinds around to meet their navels,
subsisting on wild and exotic diets like brown rice
and tea, they feel they will arrive at a great state
of spiritual development.
Diets are DIE its. Rubbish, I say to that.
Post by SOD of the CoE"Hogwash!" says the Satanist.
OK, same page.
He would rather eat a
Post by SOD of the CoEgood hearty meal, exercise his imagination, and
transcend by means of physical and emotional
fulfillment.
YES!
It seems, to the Satanist, that after
Post by SOD of the CoEbeing harnessed with unreasonable religious demands
for so many centuries, one would welcome the chance
to be human for once!
Well, I never had that experience and don't tend to hang with those who did.
Post by SOD of the CoEIf anyone thinks that by denying his natural desires
he can avoid mediocrity, he should examine the Eastern
mystical beliefs which have been in great intellectual
favor in recent years. Christianity is "old hat," so
those who wish to escape its fetters have turned to
so-called enlightened religions, such as Buddhism.
Yah, but they make pooop out of it and misunderstand everything.
Post by SOD of the CoEAlthough Christianity is certainly deserving of the
criticism it has received, perhaps it has been taking
more than its share of the blame. The followers of the
mystical beliefs are every bit as guilty of the little
humanisms as the "misguided" Christians. Both religions
are based on trite philosophies, but the mystical
religionists profess to be enlightened and emancipated
from the guilt-ridden dogma which is typified by
Christianity. However, the Eastern mystic is even more
preoccupied than the Christian with avoiding animalistic
actions that remind him he is not a "saint,"
No no, that's only the specific "eastern mystics" that the west knows about.
The western readers tend to have a blind spot for such warrior conquerers
and meat eaters and hearty drinkers like Amursana, Temursana and so forth,
with their many many wives :) In other words, they ignore FAT, DRUNK,
POLYGAMIST Marpa the Adept and Teacher, in favor of the student Mila Repa,
the guy who had to become an ascetic elsewise he destroy himself - to give
you just one example. Btw, Chinese Confucist culture is Atheistic.
but merely
Post by SOD of the CoEa man -- only another form of animal, sometimes better,
*more often worse*, than those who walk on all fours;
and who, because of his "divine spiritual and
intellectual development," has become the
most vicious animal of all!
The Satanist asks, "What is wrong with being human,
and having human limitations as well as assetts?" By
denying his desires the mystic has come no closer to
overcoming compulsion than his kindred soul, the
Christian. The Eastern mystical beliefs have taught
people to contemplate their navels, stand on their
heads, stare at blank walls, avoid the use of labels
in life, and discipline themselves against any
desire for materialistic pleasures.
This is simply not so; and it's all Anton ever knew of it also until he saw
some of our stuff. But it is pretty much what western people THINK. Then
again, as I said to Bobo - my relatives and the whole community were filled
with former Red Army soldiers (they fought in the war without the Geneva
Convention rules, remember?), NKVD personnel, and even some that sided with
the Nazi SS - people who fought in a war of extermination with no rules and
did atrocities the likes of which drove the SS insane when they saw women
and KIDS doing these things to grown soldiers. However, coming here as not
so welcome immigrants, even quipped at as "blood thirsty descendents of
Jenghis Khan, - these same people managed to portray a character that wears
a halo that can do no wrong, that was innocently caught between two "very
bad evils" the Commies and Nazis. How did they manage to do that? Easy.
Western people believe what they want to believe; it's all show for them.
Show them a Lama dressed in Lama costume hell bent intent on getting himself
a god damned cup of coffee and ignoring everyone in his path to the building
where the food/coffee is - and they manage to see "a Lama deep in
meditation" - they think that because the Lama ignored them and made a bee
line inside the building. Show them the same Lama dressed in jeans and
t-shirt and they don't even know it's a Lama.
Post by SOD of the CoE------------------------------------------------------
pp. 83-4, The Satanic Bible, LaVey.
======================================
and
The Eastern mystical beliefs teach humans to discipline
themselves against any conscious will for success so
they might dissolve thmeselves into "Universal Cosmic
Awareness" -- anything to avoid good healthy self-
satisfaction or honest pride in earthly accomplishments!
A statement made based on pure ignorance. Most of the "oriental despots"
were adepts in the yogas, btw. Just thought you'd want to know that. No one
can doubt that they indulged.
Post by SOD of the CoEIt is interesting to note that the areas in which this
type of belief flourishes are those where material gains
are not easily obtainable.
HA, yes, but the despots and Lamas, often also war lords (they double as
both) tend to have material things, UH. Even Dalai Lama - living amidst all
that gold, hey? But this echoes what I said above. If you want to stop the
MAJORITY OF PEOPLE (not the priests or leaders) from believing many things -
FIX THE FUCKING ECONOMY. There is no OTHER way to combat the proliferation
of beliefs. And someone left out the UFO religion here.
For this reason the predominant
Post by SOD of the CoEreligious belief must be one which commends its followers
for their rejection of material things and their avoidance
of the use of labels which attaches a certain amount of
importance to material gains. In this way people can be
pacified into accepting their lot, no matter how small it
may be.
The Europeans did the same during the time of land barons kings and serfs.
I criticized the Dalai Lama on that shit. Even in the late 1970s, when he
came to visit us - I can honestly say that not ONE SINGLE person there was
POOR even even lower middle class. NONE.
Post by SOD of the CoESatanism uses many labels. If it were not for names, very
few of us would understand anything in life, much less
attach any significance to it; -- and significance compels
recognition, which is something *everyone* wants,
especially the Eastern mystic who tries to prove to
everyone how he can meditate longer or stand more
deprivation and pain than the next fellow.
Again, a statement made out of pure ignorance. I'm what western people
would call an eastern mystic - I even have a fucking "divine title" in the
damned community which really amounts to nothing except to say I have a
knack for a few things and did as a kid - which is WHEN I got the title - as
a kid. I drink, I eat OH GOD YES I eat delicious food, I love to dance, I
love the beach - and whatever else - I definitely VALUE the piece of peace I
have, I like my TV shows and the FUN I'm able to have because I'm NOT poor.
I don't regard ANY of the things I can do as mystical - tho others might. I
should care that others see it that way? I tell them it's not mystical, I
even try to explain HOW to do it if they ask - no use with most. I give up.
Post by SOD of the CoEThe Eastern philosophies preach the dissolution of man's
ego before he can produce sins. It is unfathomable to the
Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully
choose denial of itself.
Again, a statement made out of ignorance - and notably what most western
(idiots) people think of eastern stuff. God, are they BLIND?
Post by SOD of the CoEIn countries where this is used as a sop for the willingly
impoverished, it is understandable that a philosophy which
teaches the denial of the ego would serve a useful purpose
-- at least for those in power, to whom it would be
detrimental if their people were discontented. But for
anyone who has every opportunity for material gain, to
*choose* this form of religious thought seems foolish indeed!
Agree. But if Lama finds out he can teach simple relaxation techniques to
pent up fools and make money - he will surely do that and tell them that
they have reached nirvana (after they spent enough). What, fault eastern
people for taking advantage of fools? Why? No one forces them to buy.
Post by SOD of the CoEThe Eastern mystic believes strongly in reincarnation.
To a person who has virtually nothing in this life, the
possibility that he might have been a king in a past life
or may be one in the next life is very attractive, and does
much to appease his need for self-respect. If there is
nothing in which they can take pride in this life, they can
console themselves by thinking, "there are always future
lives." It never occurs to the believer in reincarnation
that if his father, grandfather, and great-grandfather,
etc. had developed "good karmas," by their adherence to
the same beliefs and ethics as his present ones -- then why
is he now living in privation, rather than like a maharajah?
Read Marx. Right now, no one in China is living in privation.
Post by SOD of the CoEBelief in reincarnation provides a beautiful fantasy world
in which a person can find the proper avenue of ego-
expression but at the same time claim to have dissolved
his ego. This is emphasized by the roles people choose
for themselves in their past or future lives.
More ignorance tho - the writer has NO CLUE what the actual doctrine of
reincarnation is. It states that you ARE all your lives right now - and
they ain't necessarily all human. No use dwelling on it - because the
entire YOU that's you right here and now is NOT the same "you" in some other
life. THAT is what it really states. Even Alexandra David-Neel explained
this pretty clearly.
Post by SOD of the CoE------------------------------------------------------
Ibid., pp. 92-3.
======================
these selections from the Satanic Bible go some distance in
showing how LaVey viewed mysticism (esp. Eastern) and its
negative aspects. perhaps I'll critique this later as to its
problems and weaknesses in the face of global mystical ideas,
and explore the advanced notions of mysticism supposed by
LaVey and others, including my own theories.
What use is there to explore ideas of eastern practices when the person
spouting them is purely ignorant of the realities? Whatever rocks yer boat.
Post by SOD of the CoEblessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/