Discussion:
Satanism vs Coercive Totalitarian States
(too old to reply)
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-04 23:10:13 UTC
Permalink
50041204 viii om Hail Satan!

sometimes people have problems accepting the views of others.
I don't think this is at all problematic. extreme sociopolitical
variations may lead to direct opposition with clear divides.
I'd like to see more of this where Satanism intersects coersion.

"Kori Houghton" <***@hotmail.com>:
# However, regarding some issues -- such as when one poster claims
# to know the intention of another and on that basis attempts to
# speak for him/her ***and gets it wrong*** -- it isn't being rude
# to state how you are being misrepresented.

correct.

# Unfortunately, here on alt.s these exchanges often deteriorate
# into flaming.

lol, get used to it. 'adversarialism'. one may develop a thick hide.

# And who the Hel cares what "the majority of human beings" think
# they know about an individual self-describing as a "Satanist"?

the same people who feel compelled to write voluminously in
response to those who snipe and slam and harp on them. it is
a kind of obsession with having The Last Word, I think.

# I've been reading your exchanges, and I have found them to be
# excellent! My thanks to you both for taking the time to
# conduct these discussions in public.

thank you kindly. I was glad Tani agreed to continue as long as
she did, and expect that when Satanism with reference to her pages
is again discussed she'll be amenable to further discussion.

SOD of the CoE:
#> for the record, I don't care how human beings regard Satanists.
#> we can use the term meaningfully within the Satanist community
#> to identify those whom we admire or at least who have self-
#> identified seriously in this manner. those who pursue insane
#> sociopolitical interests such as fascistic or nazi or stalinist
#> ideologies can be marginalized and explained as extremists
#> like inverso-Christians who do not have much in common with
#> Satanists at large (exemplified by some of the larger orgs,
#> such as the CoS and, at times, the ToS). thank you.
#
# I have little use for the TOSsers,

some are apparently crypto-Satanists, or Satanists who like Set.

# but they are not nazi/fascho.

well, there was a slight passing engagement by Aquino
as I recall. some kind of Volkish german ritual?

# That was debunked over a decade ago!

hmm? did I miss something? please elaborate.

# Why keep repeating that?

repeating what? the connection between radical politics and
Satanism perpetually receives emphasis by such overt sources
as Tani 'Nakived' Jantsang, the People's Commisar, and her
'Satanic Reds'. they appear to have a Stalin fetish. it does
seem rather similar to stylizing oneself in Gestapo garb.

my point above, regardless, was that the larger organizations
have *marginalized* these radical political factions and,
in large, booted them out of their membership. I consider
this to be EXEMPLARY, and with Jeffey Deboo and others, will
continue to oppose top-heavy fascistic states such as were
prevalent under Hitler and Stalin, and their Secret Police,
and coercive ways. these are, occasionally and by small
groups, supported within and on the fringes of the Satanist
community. I hope you understand now why this is valuable
to keep repeating given the routine associations present.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-05 11:44:24 UTC
Permalink
One correction - or a few...
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041204 viii om Hail Satan!
well, there was a slight passing engagement by Aquino
as I recall. some kind of Volkish german ritual?
It was primarily their favorite enemy org slander of them due to Aquino
daring to INVESTIGATE something Himmler did - or did not do. It was notable
that not long after that, on a TV show, Aquino said that the Nazis tried to
wipe out a whole people due to not allowing them to have a RELIGION.
Post by SOD of the CoE
repeating what? the connection between radical politics and
Satanism perpetually receives emphasis by such overt sources
as Tani 'Nakived' Jantsang, the People's Commisar, and her
'Satanic Reds'. they appear to have a Stalin fetish. it does
seem rather similar to stylizing oneself in Gestapo garb.
Uh, "Is Fascism Satanic" is there to debunk the fascism and the idea that
fascism is satanic. Stalin articles are on the "FUN" menu page, btw - heh -
and there only because Stalin did bust Hitler's head but good. That's about
it for Stalin. No one has a "thing" for him or about his politics. My own
PERSONAL research into the opened up KGB archives was purely personal -
after all, my folks came from there - it's natural I'd want to know about
it. Phil got interested enough to write a good article - and btw, saying
Stalin was brain aged is not exactly PRO. I was never able to find out an
honest thing about it before. It was either all Hoover Institute hype - or
commie hype. I have to consider that people react to simple tools - a
hammer and a sickle. LMAO. They represent industry and agriculture - as we
state. Hmm, I wonder who even invented that symbol. Heh - I don't know.

Why some people into satan had to BUTT their noses into my personal business
is, imo, one of the reasons why the OLD ways are the best ways: NEVER go
public, satanism is SOLITARY - 100% solitary. In a way, times have changed.
As I said in email or elsewhere, I do NOT talk religion with people in real
life. I'm less than ZERO interested in what religion someone I hang with on
the beach is. It never comes up. If it does, the conversation ends. That
fast. I don't want to hear it.
catherine yronwode
2004-12-06 03:04:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by SOD of the CoE
the connection between radical politics and
Satanism perpetually receives emphasis by such overt sources
as Tani 'Nakived' Jantsang, the People's Commisar, and her
'Satanic Reds'. they appear to have a Stalin fetish. it does
seem rather similar to stylizing oneself in Gestapo garb.
Uh, "Is Fascism Satanic" is there to debunk the fascism and the
idea that fascism is satanic. Stalin articles are on the "FUN" -
menu page, btw - heh and there only because Stalin did bust
Hitler's head but good. That's about it for Stalin.
No one has a "thing" for him or about his politics.
Someone -- you or Phil -- does have a thing for Stalin, else you would
not have written, illustrated, and uploaded so many web sites
promoting him and the NKVD. Is it like fiction -- like a Lovecraftian
pastiche -- gone wrong? Did you think that folks would *laugh* about
it? Or are you in favour of totalitarianism -- as long as your faction
is on top?

Stalin had more of his own nation's people killed than Hitler did, and
his policies against the Kalmyks, in particular, were nothing short of
genocidal.

You claim to be (and physically seem to be) Kalmyk -- so ... I don't
get it, Tani, i really don't.

Trying honestly to relate this to my own interests (which lean more
toward folk magic than Satanism), i can say that i, whom am Jewish,
have been criticized for having a page on the use of the swastika as a
lucky symbol in pre-Hitlerian and non-Hitlerian cultures. The page is
part of the large Lucky W Amulet Archive site and is located at
http://www.luckymojo.com/swastka.html

Now, if you read the page, you will see that it is simply a brief
survey of the swastika as a symbol of good luck. However, at least one
of my fellow Jews (Blazin' Tommy D) has hounded me for years in
usenet, calling me a traitor to the Jewish race, etc. But my point was
that the lucky symbol itself -- the swastika, not National Socialism
-- had a long history prior to Hitler's adoption of it.

Can you say the same for the NKVD? Its logo -- the logo of the Soviet
secret police, administrators of the gulags -- is all over a number of
your web pages. This is not an ancient Satanist symbol. It is not an
ancient Pan-Turanian symbol. It is not part of any Dark Tradition or
Left Hand Path. It is simply the mid 20th century logo for a branch of
Stalin's police state.

Is it "fun" because it is "shocking."? Are you the Howard Stern or the
Andrew Dice Clay of Satanism?
Post by Tani Jantsang
Why some people into satan had to BUTT their noses into my
personal business is, imo, one of the reasons why the OLD ways are
the best ways: NEVER go public, satanism is SOLITARY - 100%
solitary. In a way, times have changed.
But, Tani, you have also said that you are not a Satanist -- so why
would it be important to you to declare that Satanism is solitary?

"To live outside the law, you must be honest." --Bob Dylan.

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Lucky W Amulet Archive -------- http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html
catherine yronwode
2004-12-06 07:40:26 UTC
Permalink
[I] have been criticized for having a page on the use of the
swastika as a lucky symbol in pre-Hitlerian and non-Hitlerian
cultures. The page is part of the large Lucky W Amulet Archive
site and is located at
http://www.luckymojo.com/swastka.html
Of course that should have been
http://www.luckymojo.com/swastika.html

cat (fumble-fingers) yronwode
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-06 22:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Cat,

I already answered that in great detail in email days ago. Suggest you read
it carefully and stop bothering me.

Red Comrades articles by Phil and some by me are very much like J. Arch
Getty's info. They are on a separate website that has no links to anything
satanic. The contact email for that is no longer ***@juno. I'm not
qualified to answer MOST of the questions that come, Phil has no time and is
unfamiliar with the rhetoric (Cat, Phil Pannagio debated Mark Rudd in
college and tore him to shreads because he was coming at Phil as if Phil was
IN some freaking paradigm. Phil was not. The audience LAUGHED at how Phil
ripped Rudd apart - Rudd was a dualistic monolithic thinker, as most
Dedicated Leftists are and were), Brendan (who WAS involved with MIM for
real, went to their meetings, as already explained, and who wrote the Stalin
articles) is TOO BUSY too and no longer interested and NO LONGER in any way
a Leftist of any kind.

What is on the fun page is on the fun page. Yes, it's funny. You don't
think so? And? That's on satanic reds. Feel free to imagine connections
if you want - but in all honesty, THERE ARE NONE.
snip.
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-07 02:17:13 UTC
Permalink
50041206 viii om Hail Satan!

bobo:
#> repeating what? the connection between radical politics and
#> Satanism perpetually receives emphasis by such overt sources
#> as Tani 'Nakived' Jantsang, the People's Commisar, and her
#> 'Satanic Reds'. they appear to have a Stalin fetish. it does
#> seem rather similar to stylizing oneself in Gestapo garb.

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# Uh, "Is Fascism Satanic" is there to debunk the fascism
# and the idea that fascism is satanic.

asking the question doesn't actually get behind asserting anything.
apparently you think that some anti-fascist articles primarily by
OTHERS counters the many web-pages you've got up promoting Stalinism
and fannishly lavishing attention on some historical men in it. the
idea of taking (legally) a name associated with it should also be a
strong warning sign, regardless of that you didn't want anyone to
know about this (KFilan apparently outed your fetish namechange).

# Stalin articles are on the "FUN" menu page, btw - heh -
# and there only because Stalin did bust Hitler's head but good.
# That's about it for Stalin. No one has a "thing" for him or
# about his politics.

when does it start becoming a 'thing'? how many web pages?

# My own PERSONAL research into the opened up KGB archives was
# purely personal - after all, my folks came from there - it's
# natural I'd want to know about it. Phil got interested enough
# to write a good article....

as I said earlier, this is far more than just a "JOKE".
it may be a "JOKE" that started with your father and
your family and moved on to your husband and now is
associated with the CoS. that I could understand.

# ...people react to simple tools - a hammer and a sickle. LMAO.
# They represent industry and agriculture....

quite so. if one dons the garments of certain types of
political factions one may be mistaken for that faction.
in the CoS, this apparently got some CoS members booted
for being a front group for neo-nazi orgs. and so you may
be seeing some fallout from your choice of "outer wear"
(email nicks, web page design, content, etc.).

# Why some people into satan had to BUTT their noses into
# my personal business is, imo, one of the reasons why the
# OLD ways are the best ways: NEVER go public, satanism is
# SOLITARY - 100% solitary....

except for the Dark Doctrines, except for the Satanic Reds,
except for all the orgs you've been courting and accepted.
Sat-Tanism is apparently now solitary. thanks for the
clarification.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-07 03:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041206 viii om Hail Satan!
#> repeating what? the connection between radical politics and
#> Satanism perpetually receives emphasis by such overt sources
#> as Tani 'Nakived' Jantsang, the People's Commisar, and her
#> 'Satanic Reds'. they appear to have a Stalin fetish. it does
#> seem rather similar to stylizing oneself in Gestapo garb.
# Uh, "Is Fascism Satanic" is there to debunk the fascism
# and the idea that fascism is satanic.
asking the question doesn't actually get behind asserting anything.
apparently you think that some anti-fascist articles primarily by
OTHERS counters the many web-pages you've got up promoting Stalinism
and fannishly lavishing attention on some historical men in it. the
idea of taking (legally) a name associated with it should also be a
strong warning sign, regardless of that you didn't want anyone to
know about this (KFilan apparently outed your fetish namechange).
Uh, feel free to imagine I did that for the reasons YOU imagine. My cousins
WIFE has that same name. I don't even fucking USE it - since I do not work
anywhere anymore.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Stalin articles are on the "FUN" menu page, btw - heh -
# and there only because Stalin did bust Hitler's head but good.
# That's about it for Stalin. No one has a "thing" for him or
# about his politics.
when does it start becoming a 'thing'? how many web pages?
On the fun section of SR. SOME of the articles - Stalin article by Brendan,
even published offline in magazines from University of Virginia - some
magazine there.

Uh, Stalin wasn't a fascist. He was a Marxist. I realize that Trotsky fans
like to call him by that "F" word. Sorry, Trotsky was a fascist. I wrote
articles on the NKVD and on Lysenko because I had the material (archival) to
write it with. That's on the RC website. Not my fault if someone makes a
big deal out of me writing that AND writing other stuff, too. I could care
less, Tyagi.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# My own PERSONAL research into the opened up KGB archives was
# purely personal - after all, my folks came from there - it's
# natural I'd want to know about it. Phil got interested enough
# to write a good article....
as I said earlier, this is far more than just a "JOKE".
NO, that stuff is NOT a joke. What's on the SR fun page - a whole heap of
stuff, IS jokes. Go look there.
Post by SOD of the CoE
it may be a "JOKE" that started with your father and
your family and moved on to your husband and now is
associated with the CoS. that I could understand.
Huh? OK, you're nuts. NONE of the Stalih articles on rC, and NONE of the
jokes (about many things) on SR are associated with the COS or anyone else.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...people react to simple tools - a hammer and a sickle. LMAO.
# They represent industry and agriculture....
quite so. if one dons the garments of certain types of
political factions one may be mistaken for that faction.
in the CoS, this apparently got some CoS members booted
for being a front group for neo-nazi orgs. and so you may
be seeing some fallout from your choice of "outer wear"
(email nicks, web page design, content, etc.).
Fallout? Nope. Just usenet slumming by idiots.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Why some people into satan had to BUTT their noses into
# my personal business is, imo, one of the reasons why the
# OLD ways are the best ways: NEVER go public, satanism is
# SOLITARY - 100% solitary....
except for the Dark Doctrines, except for the Satanic Reds,
That's an example of, I admit, changing times. YES, we are PUBLIC now.
Don't like it? Tough.
Post by SOD of the CoE
except for all the orgs you've been courting and accepted.
Sat-Tanism is apparently now solitary. thanks for the
clarification.
I said SHOULD have remained. It didn't remain solitary at all. We are NO
exception.
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Dagon Productions
2004-12-07 04:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...people react to simple tools - a hammer and a sickle. LMAO.
# They represent industry and agriculture....
quite so. if one dons the garments of certain types of
political factions one may be mistaken for that faction.
in the CoS, this apparently got some CoS members booted
for being a front group for neo-nazi orgs. and so you may
be seeing some fallout from your choice of "outer wear"
(email nicks, web page design, content, etc.).
Fallout? Nope. Just usenet slumming by idiots.
And you are one of the idiots slumming in al.satanism... in this
case one of the prime high profile idiots.

It's quite hilarious to watch tani hem and haw here when
confronted with her inconsistancies. She doesn't care but
cares enough to post ranting replies pages long... what do
most people call this IRL... a liar/hypocrite.

Up the ante some tani and lets see where the chips fall...
I know I'm looking forward to it.

-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
***@dagonproductions.com
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-07 02:00:44 UTC
Permalink
50041206 viii om Hail Satan!

Tani Jantsang/Tanya Lysenko/TL/NaKiVeD's association with
Stalinism came up. she claims 'it is all a *JOKE*!' and
yet there is a strange preponderance of expression in
volume on her "Satanic Reds" and associated "Red Comrades"
web pages which seems to be something much beyond humour.


"Kori Houghton" <***@hotmail.com>:
#> IIRC, a lot of Tani's communism/stalinism is a pose,
#> intended to start a conversation -- or even a conflict.

not too different than some of the booted CoSser nazis.

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# Actually, it was in contradiction to the openly fascist
# faction that prompted Tim to want to write a project on
# "Is Fascism Satanic."

was this the OLHP or the ONA or someone else?

# Tim is a COS member, not an SR member at all at any time.
# He got persecuted and threatened in his own org for even
# wanting to do it. And soooo - we put it up and got him
# his essays. One is by DeBoo. We got pro and con up there.

these piddly things are hardly the same as the bulk of info
out there within that cache of websites that sri catyananda
found you writing to, hosting, and generally putting forward.
a good number of them have been online a while, and your
identification as "People's Commisar" and 'NKVD'-variants
seem to long precede your involvement with the mentioned page.

i.e. your associations with NKVD/Stalinism are deeper and
display a greater degree of interest than a CoS sniping.
if you don't think this is true, then you may wish to
consider separating yourself out from Stalinism and its
humour-to-you over the coming months (I expect that you may
be doing this anyway as you adopt greater frequency of
mention to 'your Muslim cousins').

like the earlier CoS-nazis, sometimes we find out that it
isn't too "LMAO" or "LOL" to put on the apparel of a recently
destroyed fascist establishment. unlike these others, your
extensive lures online pertaining to Stalinesqe defense are
not exactly conforming to the 'joke' character you portray.

the costume may become mistaken (?) as part of your actual
character, and the "joke" might be misunderstood. this is
what you apparently are attempting to claim, and yet all of
these misunderstandings are really encouraging you to stop
the "joke" or beginning to dismantle the extensive site-net
you've constructed in support of Stalinists and their supposed
"Turanian" character (with which you yourself seek to identify).

# The Stalin articles and jokes are on the FUN page ....

so all the rest of the articles are on the FUN page now?
interesting. did you just revise those web pages so that you
would no longer be associated in some serious way with "TL"
(whoever that is, presumably Tanya Lysenko) or Philip Marsh
(whose pro-Stalin writings strangely fit into your overall
"joke")?

# - they are entirely tongue in cheek.....

so any other pages of that type are either long down from
the web or are associated in some way with that "FUN page"?
or are you trying to say that all of the pages are either:

PMarsh's original constructions from college

or Your "FUN" joke page

and that anything else just happens to have names
as authors which just happen to be similar to yours?

# ...My sole dealing on Stalin's side against Hitler is
# that Stalin busted Hitler's head. That's about it.
# Hey, that's good, right? He was America's ally.
# AMERICA was pro Stalin during that war.

classic logic. consider your associations carefully.

what do you think qualifies as 'supportable' within ordinary
Satanist standards? by your "Sat-Tan" Satanism standards?
do fascistic organizations attract you for some reason
beyond this "joke" you say you've been perpetrating?

# Anyway, Cat knows a lot more about all of that than I do
# - that's for sure.

another interesting statement.

# Oh, and the "page of faces"

geocities.com/redcomrades

# goes with an equally FUNNY article on the FUN page.

geocities.com/satanicreds

# ...I tried my best to give them what they wanted when they
# ASKED for debate - but I ended up just analyzing their own
# literature at first. It was fun. Brendan was in on that
# from the start - and others got in on it - and it was really
# fun....

apparently it still is. who asked you to engage the newsgroup
with socks and stir things up now? is it still fun for you?
you told me in private mail that you've been seriously
considering departing from usenet (or at least alt.satanism),
and you've mentioned something similar in the newsgroup itself,
but if you will lie to people who (like me now, apparently)
you think have some 'agenda' against you, why should any take
you seriously?

from what I can tell, your Satanism is disruptive and mislabeled.
your interest in distracting and drawing attention to your group
and yourself takes the form of multi-headed gaggling and self-
support with puppets. in general I don't understand any of its
value or its substantive contribution other than your occasional
mention of things in which you have taken part personally (and
that hedged, because you are unreliable to your "enemies", a
category which fluctuates with your latest menu and may well
depends on whether the target of the lie is agreeing with you).

# ...I was MYSELF writing using THREE points of view ....

this appears to be continuing, promoting Tani now instead of MIM.
and the 'Reds' label was just part of the joke too, and the NKVD
association, and putting up all the Stalin-apologies too, etc.

it is getting more difficult to believe your stories.

# ...MIM is an FBI cointelpro group ....

and you and Brendan worked for them, yes.

# ...that is precisely why they have nothing to fear by libeling
# me as some FBI spy....

sowing confusion by making dramatic assertion is part of the game.
sometimes confusion isn't as confusing as confusers might like.

#> Whether it makes any sense or not, it is still far more "acceptable" to
#> play with Stalin than with Hitler (or Himmler, or Rosenberg).
#
# Stalin was ally with USA during ww2 - and without him, it is known,
# the Nazis would have won. And we do nothing but PLAY with Stalin
# - on our FUN page.

it extends very evidently beyond your "FUN" page, into your identity
as it changes over time in usenet, in email, etc. it's far more
extensive than you're admitting to, and this is suspicious. that you
don't want to admit this is also strange. apparently you perceive
that Stalinist Satanists will be marginalized over time also
because of your "JOKE" (should this be followed by a "LMAO!"?)?

# ...I don't know enough about communism to really talk about it.

how does "TL" and "Jamtsamg" and "nakived@<whatever.whatever>"
differ from Tani Lysenko/Tanya Lysenko/Tani Jantsang? who is
attributed authorship of those apologies for Lysenko/NKVD/etc.?
you? if so, it didn't look like it was a part of your "JOKE"
page(s). maybe I'm mistaken.

# ...SR politics is a mixture of Nader and Buchanan and a lot of FDR....

so FDRites would like the label "Reds" and enjoy Communism (the
basis of your 10 Points, as I understand it)? strange notions.

# (Bush Sr murdered three babies related to me when he bombed
# the place out of the blue - and it WAS a nice place back then,
# Saddam was NOT a dictator - my cousins would know if they lived
# in a dictatorship - they didn't. The economy was superb there....

yeah, your expression associating yourself with Muslims and with
Iraq has been on the rise, I notice.

# ...My personal politics change with the wind....

how can you reliably agree with your 10 SR points, then?
if all the members of the SRs are as unreliable, what is
the purpose of your 10 Points?

# ...My state - ...is 90% lazzes faire - and it's brutal
# competition.

where are the web-pages which describe, comparatively, your
own politics, as contrasted with the multitude of pages you
have supporting Stalinism? please point us to them, and if
you would be so kind, explain how your Satanism associates
with 'em. thank you.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-07 03:52:24 UTC
Permalink
You really don't pay attention very well, do you? See inside.
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041206 viii om Hail Satan!
Tani Jantsang/Tanya Lysenko/TL/NaKiVeD's association with
Stalinism came up. she claims 'it is all a *JOKE*!' and
yet there is a strange preponderance of expression in
volume on her "Satanic Reds" and associated "Red Comrades"
web pages which seems to be something much beyond humour.
Believe in conspiracy theories, Tyagi? I'm not the one who ever put "Tanya
Lysenko" on usenet or online - OTHERS did that.

What's on the redcomrades site is serious essays unrelated to satanism.
What's on the SR site about Stalin was written by Brendan (some even
PUBLISHED in offline university magazines by him) and is in the JOKE section
because we others decided it BELONGED there.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> IIRC, a lot of Tani's communism/stalinism is a pose,
#> intended to start a conversation -- or even a conflict.
not too different than some of the booted CoSser nazis.
# Actually, it was in contradiction to the openly fascist
# faction that prompted Tim to want to write a project on
# "Is Fascism Satanic."
was this the OLHP or the ONA or someone else?
Pay attention. TIM IS and WAS a COS member. It was the COS members that
intimidated and threatened him - and tried to order him around. TIM's
project is on the SR website and has been there for a LONG time. It was
first on the satanmuse.rules.it site, put there by Metadromos who was ALSO
threatened. The logs of all of this WERE made public by Ole. I still have
that info. Tim's projmect was in contradiction to the COS MEMBERS in what
he called "the fascist faction." NOT olhp. NOT ona. Pay attention.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Tim is a COS member, not an SR member at all at any time.
# He got persecuted and threatened in his own org for even
# wanting to do it. And soooo - we put it up and got him
# his essays. One is by DeBoo. We got pro and con up there.
these piddly things are hardly the same as the bulk of info
out there within that cache of websites that sri catyananda
found you writing to, hosting, and generally putting forward.
The only problem is that she found a heap of rubbish and made conspiracy
theories out of it. Feel FREE to believe I'm a CIA operative. She probably
will since that would be the Dedicated Lefitist paradigm. She found
METADROMOS sites, Vad sites, OLE stuff - a comedy site hosted by Hugo
Cunningham (Cyber USSR) - and made a grand conspiracy theory out of it.

HOW IS THIS now for debate - on a peculiar quirk of fact. The "Protocols of
the Learned Elders of Zion" were found to be legit by many a gov and person,
including the pro Mexican Atzlan folks who HOST it right now on their
website for all to see and just about every Islamic nation out there these
days. The only people that found them to be a fraud were the people in
switzlerland - notably in the "WORLD ZIONIST CONGRESS." LMAO - now that is
something to HOWL at. Wanna talk conspiracies?
Post by SOD of the CoE
a good number of them have been online a while, and your
identification as "People's Commisar" and 'NKVD'-variants
seem to long precede your involvement with the mentioned page.
i.e. your associations with NKVD/Stalinism are deeper and
display a greater degree of interest than a CoS sniping.
Feel free to think what you want. The interest was PERSONAL - but led to an
essay Phil wrote that even J. Arch Getty praised as objective. He wrote "On
the Road to Terror" - which I think has truth in it. Feel free to think I'm
politically this or that, but I am and have been a registered REPUBLICAN for
years. Feel free to think I'm a CIA operative. Go ahead. You are just
about crazy enough to think it - and so is Cat.
Post by SOD of the CoE
if you don't think this is true, then you may wish to
consider separating yourself out from Stalinism and its
humour-to-you over the coming months (I expect that you may
be doing this anyway as you adopt greater frequency of
mention to 'your Muslim cousins').
How DARE you. I have Muslim cousins. Period. The closer relations are
American citizens, too. I'm not going to change a fucking thing on there.
I could care less what you "surmise" out of it. I could also care less what
my cousins politics or religion is. They are TURKS.
Post by SOD of the CoE
like the earlier CoS-nazis, sometimes we find out that it
isn't too "LMAO" or "LOL" to put on the apparel of a recently
destroyed fascist establishment. unlike these others, your
extensive lures online pertaining to Stalinesqe defense are
not exactly conforming to the 'joke' character you portray.
In your opinion. In the opinion of others with less "dedicated conspiracy
kook" minds - it's FUNNY as hell. Hugo Cunningham's site is FUNNY as hell.
Too bad Cat is not attentive enough to j ust READ the sociopolitical
articles on the SR site.

Feel free to CheKa out the song, it's gonna remain there:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dzerzh.mid

Also feel free to check THIS hilarity out:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/god.html

You need to BUY a sense of humor. Oh - that can't be bought. Too bad.
Post by SOD of the CoE
the costume may become mistaken (?) as part of your actual
character, and the "joke" might be misunderstood. this is
what you apparently are attempting to claim, and yet all of
these misunderstandings are really encouraging you to stop
the "joke" or beginning to dismantle the extensive site-net
you've constructed in support of Stalinists and their supposed
"Turanian" character (with which you yourself seek to identify).
What the fuck are you talking about? I wasn't even HERE when some of those
sites were made by various members. I'm not changing a thing that's up
there. And it's on ONE place now. Stalin, heh, was very much like a
Turanian KHAN, in case you didn't notice that, DUH DUH. And so what? You
got a problem with Turks?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# The Stalin articles and jokes are on the FUN page ....
so all the rest of the articles are on the FUN page now?
What? Go look at what's up there, nothing has been "revised" at all. It's
not just Stalin humor - it's a LOT of stuff. Your problem is that you want
to know, but you don't want to READ to find out what's under the sheets. I'm
not gonna spoon feed it to you. I have NO patience with lazy readers, too
attention deficit to READ real material on the satanic org. I also have no
patients for idiots that think "Stalin and Yezhov" is anything BUT an
extra-paradigmatic view - J. Arch Getty had no problem seeing this. HE
COUNTS. YOU do not count. Online satanists DO NOT count.
Post by SOD of the CoE
interesting. did you just revise those web pages so that you
would no longer be associated in some serious way with "TL"
(whoever that is, presumably Tanya Lysenko) or Philip Marsh
I told you that TL stood for True Liberty - and THAT WAS ME that wrote that.
Are you DEAF? Lost the ability to read? I never wanted my changed name,
which I changed for JOB purposes, to be plastered all over online. DO YOU
HEAR?
Post by SOD of the CoE
(whose pro-Stalin writings strangely fit into your overall
"joke")?
# - they are entirely tongue in cheek.....
so any other pages of that type are either long down from
the web or are associated in some way with that "FUN page"?
Red Comrades site is a website. That's that. SR website is ANOTHER website
that SHOULD be unrelated to the former - which has seriously written
material on it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
PMarsh's original constructions from college
What? Where the fuck are you even getting this?
Post by SOD of the CoE
or Your "FUN" joke page
and that anything else just happens to have names
as authors which just happen to be similar to yours?
OH, I see, I can't write an objective article about the police groups in the
SU AND write other stuff unrelated to that, AND poke fun of all of it? I
see. IN Tyagiworkd, that's not allowed.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...My sole dealing on Stalin's side against Hitler is
# that Stalin busted Hitler's head. That's about it.
# Hey, that's good, right? He was America's ally.
# AMERICA was pro Stalin during that war.
classic logic. consider your associations carefully.
No. I don't give a fuck about what OTHERS think my associations are. YOU
are not the fucking FBI. Since the FBI has NO issue with me - I'm fine.
Yes, that IS classic logic. You don't like it? Gee, too bad.
Post by SOD of the CoE
what do you think qualifies as 'supportable' within ordinary
Satanist standards? by your "Sat-Tan" Satanism standards?
do fascistic organizations attract you for some reason
beyond this "joke" you say you've been perpetrating?
Fascist organizations and people AVOID us like the plague. That is actually
what HAPPENS due to ALL of it, the sum total of what is on SR. Satanists
that can't make fun of world wars where countries are led by a drunk, a
bipolar, a druggie, a cripple and a medieval samurai need to BUY a sense of
humor.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Anyway, Cat knows a lot more about all of that than I do
# - that's for sure.
another interesting statement.
Yah, she seems to know the ins and outs of a whole HEAP of "Dedicated
Leftist" shit, including Trotsky shit - she said it on here hereself. Ooops,
sorry, but I never partied with those types of people because they are
cerebral, moralistic, prigs with no bodies who have no clue how to have fun.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Oh, and the "page of faces"
geocities.com/redcomrades
Nope: http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/diab-sov.html
FUN section.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# goes with an equally FUNNY article on the FUN page.
geocities.com/satanicreds
# ...I tried my best to give them what they wanted when they
# ASKED for debate - but I ended up just analyzing their own
# literature at first. It was fun. Brendan was in on that
# from the start - and others got in on it - and it was really
# fun....
apparently it still is. who asked you to engage the newsgroup
with socks and stir things up now? is it still fun for you?
I have not engaged any such thing, Tyagi. What socks? Someone is on here
posting pro Stalin shit? I don't even see it . SHOW ME. This newsgroup is
usually not fun at all, due to the drones on here that like to POISON THE
WELL.

Hey, feel happy that due to people just like you - I CAN GET good leather
goods very very cheap now. ALL my dance shoes are leather. ALL my purses
are leather. Very comfortable, long lasting, and nice to the touch. Even
my cigarette case is leather (than's to Lucinda).
Post by SOD of the CoE
you told me in private mail that you've been seriously
considering departing from usenet (or at least alt.satanism),
and you've mentioned something similar in the newsgroup itself,
but if you will lie to people who (like me now, apparently)
you think have some 'agenda' against you, why should any take
you seriously?
I have been considering that for heh, YEARS. Everyone else in Sr surely did
do that. Do you see Brendan or Vad or any of the others on here? NO. So
think again when you go seeing puppets - when what's on here IS drones.
Post by SOD of the CoE
from what I can tell, your Satanism is disruptive and mislabeled.
I don't care what you can tell. Our Satanism has helped people greatly -
and enhanced their clarity on spiritual matters. YOUR silly little CoE is
nothing but a bunch of serious yayhoos that sound more like a joke. Fetus
soup my ass. You spread death and negativity. We DO NOT. Therefore, I
know you will always be on the opposite side of a spiritual LINE drawn in
the cosmos. I know it. Stay there. All the spin you do in the world
about puppets and whatever is NOT going to prevent an objective reader from
seeing drones obsessed with Tani on here - and all the other stupid spin you
do will fall flat when they see YOU ARE STILL ALIVE but telling others to
kill themselves for the good of humanity. We preach NOTHING like that. We
are POSITIVE in the extreme. You can't fathom that. Do I disrupt assholes
that obsess on me? You bet I do. They work - they don't have 24/7 to fuck
around on here.
Post by SOD of the CoE
your interest in distracting and drawing attention to your group
and yourself takes the form of multi-headed gaggling and self-
support with puppets.
You are hallucinating. I see no one supporting SR on here - and I DO see
Comrades on here. Chas Nemo is one of them. Delila is another one. They
occasionally post on here and ignore the rest.

in general I don't understand any of its
Post by SOD of the CoE
value or its substantive contribution other than your occasional
mention of things in which you have taken part personally (and
that hedged, because you are unreliable to your "enemies", a
category which fluctuates with your latest menu and may well
depends on whether the target of the lie is agreeing with you).
Shows you how much you don't know. Take Vad and I. We disagree on some
things, sure we do. So what?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...I was MYSELF writing using THREE points of view ....
this appears to be continuing, promoting Tani now instead of MIM.
and the 'Reds' label was just part of the joke too, and the NKVD
association, and putting up all the Stalin-apologies too, etc.
it is getting more difficult to believe your stories.
Because you don't just go there and READ the material on two SEPARATE
websites. You are also incapable of seeing them as SEPARATE.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...MIM is an FBI cointelpro group ....
and you and Brendan worked for them, yes.
I typed for them. I also "worked" for Don Ward - former DIA retired agent
in the USA - a right winger like him I NEVER met before. I did telephone
appointments for about 6 months so he could sell things on his PT job. I
made a LOT of money doing that. Pay, PLUS commission. And so? I also
typed for Jehova's Witnesses - 9 bucks a page. Brendan did NOT work for
them at all. He went to a few meetings and concluded that they were full of
shit. IN fact, he concluded that the entire "left" is full of shit.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...that is precisely why they have nothing to fear by libeling
# me as some FBI spy....
sowing confusion by making dramatic assertion is part of the game.
sometimes confusion isn't as confusing as confusers might like.
Conspiracy theories. Go for it. The LaRouche gang in the 70s thought I was
a British Spy. When I literally picked myself off the floor laughing (them
putting a gun in my face stopped the laughing) - I left.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> Whether it makes any sense or not, it is still far more "acceptable" to
#> play with Stalin than with Hitler (or Himmler, or Rosenberg).
#
# Stalin was ally with USA during ww2 - and without him, it is known,
# the Nazis would have won. And we do nothing but PLAY with Stalin
# - on our FUN page.
it extends very evidently beyond your "FUN" page, into your identity
as it changes over time in usenet, in email, etc. it's far more
extensive than you're admitting to, and this is suspicious.
So be suspicious. I th ink Stalin was the right man for the job - BACK
THEN, BACK THERE. I stand by that. I do realize that the Trotskyites never
got over that. But you know what? Due to Trotsky and HIS gang - the "on the
street" view of the average Russian today is that the "fucking JEWS did it
all." Go for it. Are they right or wrong?

that you
Post by SOD of the CoE
don't want to admit this is also strange.
What? I don't care about admitting to what I thought about something 10
years ago versus what I thought 5 years ago versus what I think NOW. I
told you, my personal opinions change like the wind. You can't seem to
grasp that simple idea. You are way too rigid.

apparently you perceive
Post by SOD of the CoE
that Stalinist Satanists will be marginalized over time also
because of your "JOKE" (should this be followed by a "LMAO!"?)?
There are some hard core leftists in the SR. So what? We also have
libertarians in the SR.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...I don't know enough about communism to really talk about it.
differ from Tani Lysenko/Tanya Lysenko/Tani Jantsang? who is
attributed authorship of those apologies for Lysenko/NKVD/etc.?
APOLOGIIES? Did you raed it? It's from ARCHIVAL material. Even the file
NUMBERS are there. I never wrote anything with my CHANGED name on it.
Others outed that shit on here.
Post by SOD of the CoE
you? if so, it didn't look like it was a part of your "JOKE"
page(s). maybe I'm mistaken.
You are stupid or what? RC is ONE website. SR is ANOTHER website. MY
PERSONAL views, and analysis based on archive material, have nothing to do
with anything in real life now - it's the fucking PAST.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...SR politics is a mixture of Nader and Buchanan and a lot of FDR....
so FDRites would like the label "Reds" and enjoy Communism (the
basis of your 10 Points, as I understand it)? strange notions.
The 10 points are Naderite and Buchanite. Both. and FDR ite. do you know
what communism is? the workers first have a violent revolution to OVERTHROW
companies and then they take hold of the "means of production" themselves.
SR does not advocate that. In fact, it's a fucking DUMB idea.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# (Bush Sr murdered three babies related to me when he bombed
# the place out of the blue - and it WAS a nice place back then,
# Saddam was NOT a dictator - my cousins would know if they lived
# in a dictatorship - they didn't. The economy was superb there....
yeah, your expression associating yourself with Muslims and with
Iraq has been on the rise, I notice.
ON THE RISE? You are without a clue. That shit happened before there was a
usenet for you to slum in. I have MAINTAINED that stance because it is
PERSONAL. I have even copied Jeff Archer's book and given it to people
since it's hard to get otherwise. Nothing is on the rise. It's just that
Tyagi just noticed it. I was against the war in Iraq from day one. NOTHING
has changed with regards to that. YOU just didn't notice it.

You see, boy, I have NO problem with my ANTI commie relations and my PRO
commie (in the past) relations. NONE. We don't talk politics. for you,
this might be some issue - but you see I don't MAKE issues out of NON
issues. I don't give a fuck what their politics are - unless, as one time,
it threatened to erupt into a fight (which my mom had to stop lest they
destroy the fucking room and furniture in it). .
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...My personal politics change with the wind....
how can you reliably agree with your 10 SR points, then?
if all the members of the SRs are as unreliable, what is
the purpose of your 10 Points?
I do not change my stance on the 10 points. Those points are not points
that fit ANY political party out there.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...My state - ...is 90% lazzes faire - and it's brutal
# competition.
where are the web-pages which describe, comparatively, your
own politics, as contrasted with the multitude of pages you
have supporting Stalinism? please point us to them, and if
you would be so kind, explain how your Satanism associates
with 'em. thank you.
My own politics and changes in view point are chatted about here or there in
egroups. NOT on the web. MY PERSONAL opinion about a great deal of things
is really NONE of y our business or the world's business. My satanism
doesn't impinge on anything I do or think along lines like that. The
satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical - and since the
PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to change along WITH it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-07 07:54:38 UTC
Permalink
50041206 viii om Hail Satan!

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
<snip>
# ...MY PERSONAL opinion about a great deal of things is really NONE
# of your business or the world's business. My satanism doesn't
# impinge on anything I do or think along lines like that. The
# satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical - and since
# the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to change along WITH it.

thank you very much. exact and precise.
does the spiritual world change at all? or is it changeless, somehow?
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-07 08:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041206 viii om Hail Satan!
<snip>
# ...MY PERSONAL opinion about a great deal of things is really NONE
# of your business or the world's business. My satanism doesn't
# impinge on anything I do or think along lines like that. The
# satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical - and since
# the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to change along WITH it.
thank you very much. exact and precise.
does the spiritual world change at all? or is it changeless, somehow?
Don't you know?

I posted to you on a new thread, snipping out non-existent newsgroups (and
btw, my newsreader says that that magick.tyagi newsgroup can not be
resolved. I also commented on how UNIONS changed - and if the unions change
for the worse - then supporting them is not a good idea. SR does not say
JOIN a union.
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-07 21:45:08 UTC
Permalink
50041207 viii om Hail Satan!

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
#># ...The satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical
#># - and since the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to
#># change along WITH it.

bobo:
#> thank you very much. exact and precise. does the spiritual
#> world change at all? or is it changeless, somehow?

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# Don't you know?

knowing things is easy. we covered this before. one just puts
one's cranial lobes together and *pushes*. vwah-LA! knowledge!!
I have my favourite ideas about it, sure. since you ask, ...

'the spiritual world' is a fantasy projected upon
subjectivity by human beings who want a stability
and changelessness to help combat the continually-
changing reality we engage consistently. this spirit
is the subjective aspect of experience that we
mistakenly abstract and distance from, the
object-related facet.

as such, the spiritual world, so called, changes
continually, though doctrines help folks believe
this not to be true, often inverting metaphysics
to make the 'spirit(ual)' primary (sort of like
Solipsism, especially in its unassailable character).

how's that? you disagree, because you believe in some kind
of Dark Force (Sat-Tan). explain whether that changes.

# I posted to you on a new thread.... UNIONS....

I didn't see any new address to these questions, just politics,
which you've already said is different than your spirituality.
thanks.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-07 22:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041207 viii om Hail Satan!
#># ...The satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical
#># - and since the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to
#># change along WITH it.
#> thank you very much. exact and precise. does the spiritual
#> world change at all? or is it changeless, somehow?
# Don't you know?
knowing things is easy. we covered this before. one just puts
one's cranial lobes together and *pushes*. vwah-LA! knowledge!!
I have my favourite ideas about it, sure. since you ask, ...
'the spiritual world' is a fantasy projected upon
subjectivity by human beings who want a stability
and changelessness to help combat the continually-
changing reality we engage consistently. this spirit
is the subjective aspect of experience that we
mistakenly abstract and distance from, the
object-related facet.
Your definition of the "spiritual" is far from mine. I did not say
organized religion. I said spiritual. Not spiritual world. I said
spiritual. If you don't know what that is, then you never FELT the flame
within yourself - because I don't know if any science ever figured out what
that was - maybe in China they did since they know what CHI is. All things
are spirit - and all living things are matter IN spirit. That is my world
view and how I really do see things.
Post by SOD of the CoE
as such, the spiritual world, so called, changes
continually, though doctrines help folks believe
this not to be true, often inverting metaphysics
to make the 'spirit(ual)' primary (sort of like
Solipsism, especially in its unassailable character).
Not the same meaning I give to the word "spirit." Not even close. spirit
is spirit, it is from the boundless darkness and flame within- and that DOES
NOT change at all. It is eternal, it is ONE. It is also known as "the
void." It is unchanging, tho all change arised FROM that, which we can see
and even measure. Our definitions are very different.
Post by SOD of the CoE
how's that? you disagree, because you believe in some kind
of Dark Force (Sat-Tan). explain whether that changes.
I already did - read the doctrines - even the free ones. Asat Sat never
changes in the sense that stars and planets change. that is why that is
Being-NESS ITself.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I posted to you on a new thread.... UNIONS....
I didn't see any new address to these questions, just politics,
which you've already said is different than your spirituality.
thanks.
Uh huh, thanks to Cat, the new official castrati drone dogma on here is
gonna be that me and Tiffany are the same person, when she is an org leader
of her own, never met me, and I don't know her. Right on. Thanks to Cat,
Phyllis's name is still bandied on here, yet she may have left all occultism
in 1975 as far as I know, and the symbol on Vad's page has somethning to do
with her, when he never met her. Thanks to Cat, a whole heep of utter
rubbish about irrelevant shit is going to be the new dogma that the gang of
drones use to hurl at me, like so much impotent flame. Thanks to Cat, a
heap of DISinformation is on here.

So you tell me, the wiccans say that you and she are the biggest liars on
usenet. And now I refer to wiccans that I have great respect for and know
OUTSIDE of the cesspool called usenet. I think they are right.

I'm not Tiffany. I'm not any of the 3 Phyllises that were playing music
with me.

She procrastinates and apologized for it - but she evidently asks questions
she has no intention of reading the answers to - and then dedicatedly POSTS
falsehoods and crazy innuendos. That is what she DID - and that is a DEED,
not an opinion.
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-07 23:15:17 UTC
Permalink
50041207 viii om Hail Satan!

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
#>#># ...The satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical
#>#># - and since the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to
#>#># change along WITH it.

bobo:
#>#> ...does the spiritual world change at all?
#>#> or is it changeless, somehow?

bobo responds to a returned-volly of query prior to your answer:
#> 'the spiritual world' is a fantasy projected upon
#> subjectivity by human beings who want a stability
#> and changelessness to help combat the continually-
#> changing reality we engage consistently. this spirit
#> is the subjective aspect of experience that we
#> mistakenly abstract and distance from, the
#> object-related facet.

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# Your definition of the "spiritual" is far from mine.

I kinda figured, though I wouldn't call it 'mine' so
much as an inference about what you might mean and
response from that perspective for clarity.

# I did not say organized religion.

quite so, and neither did I, to my knowledge. if you
think that I did, please explain where. thanks.

# I said spiritual. Not spiritual world.

indeed you did, and you compared this with "the
PRACTICAL WORLD", so I helped our conversation along,
but logically inferring that "the SPIRITUAL WORLD"
would be the implied correlate.

# I said spiritual. If you don't know what that is,

we covered that already, knowledge is easy to obtain.
you have obtained it in the manner you prefer. I don't
assume just because I may say that I "know" something
or that you may say that you "know" something that we
should therefore be converted by these expressions.

# then you never FELT the flame within yourself -
# because I don't know if any science ever figured out what
# that was - maybe in China they did since they know what
# CHI is. All things are spirit - and all living things
# are matter IN spirit....

often the notion is 'spirit in matter', a kind of meat-
puppet viewpoint of the cosmos. what does "matter IN
spirit" mean, exactly? which parts are the spirit and
what, if either, has priority? do you believe that the
spirit survives bodily disintegration (death)? if so, why?

#> as such, the spiritual world, so called, changes
#> continually, though doctrines help folks believe
#> this not to be true, often inverting metaphysics
#> to make the 'spirit(ual)' primary (sort of like
#> Solipsism, especially in its unassailable character).

[you indicate you are contrasting your ideas here:]
# ...spirit is spirit, it is from the boundless darkness
# and flame within- and that DOES NOT change at all.
# It is eternal, it is ONE. It is also known as "the
# void." It is unchanging, tho all change arised FROM
# that, which we can see and even measure....

not that different from other religious 'spirit' then.
it does have that inverted-metaphysics I mentioned, with
matter deriving *from* spirit, in contrast with most of
our scientific metaphysics, yes.

# ...Asat Sat never changes in the sense that stars and
# planets change. that is why that is Being-NESS ITself.

how did you determine its changeless condition?

<your issues with sri catyananda, not relevant to Satanism,
are taken private -- snip>

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-08 02:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041207 viii om Hail Satan!
#>#># ...The satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical
#>#># - and since the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to
#>#># change along WITH it.
#>#> ...does the spiritual world change at all?
#>#> or is it changeless, somehow?
#> 'the spiritual world' is a fantasy projected upon
#> subjectivity by human beings who want a stability
#> and changelessness to help combat the continually-
#> changing reality we engage consistently. this spirit
#> is the subjective aspect of experience that we
#> mistakenly abstract and distance from, the
#> object-related facet.
# Your definition of the "spiritual" is far from mine.
I kinda figured, though I wouldn't call it 'mine' so
much as an inference about what you might mean and
response from that perspective for clarity.
# I did not say organized religion.
quite so, and neither did I, to my knowledge. if you
think that I did, please explain where. thanks.
# I said spiritual. Not spiritual world.
indeed you did, and you compared this with "the
PRACTICAL WORLD", so I helped our conversation along,
but logically inferring that "the SPIRITUAL WORLD"
would be the implied correlate.
# I said spiritual. If you don't know what that is,
we covered that already, knowledge is easy to obtain.
you have obtained it in the manner you prefer. I don't
assume just because I may say that I "know" something
or that you may say that you "know" something that we
should therefore be converted by these expressions.
# then you never FELT the flame within yourself -
# because I don't know if any science ever figured out what
# that was - maybe in China they did since they know what
# CHI is. All things are spirit - and all living things
# are matter IN spirit....
often the notion is 'spirit in matter', a kind of meat-
puppet viewpoint of the cosmos. what does "matter IN
spirit" mean, exactly? which parts are the spirit and
what, if either, has priority? do you believe that the
spirit survives bodily disintegration (death)? if so, why?
See this article which I wrote - the beginning where it talks about
viewpoint and what I mean by spirit.
http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-shamanism.html

That's the best I can explain it, and a NA chimed in (which I quoted). It's
hard to explain it unless well, you actually know it another way. It's like
music man - c minor, c major - how can a person know the difference unless
they directly hear it?
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> as such, the spiritual world, so called, changes
#> continually, though doctrines help folks believe
#> this not to be true, often inverting metaphysics
#> to make the 'spirit(ual)' primary (sort of like
#> Solipsism, especially in its unassailable character).
[you indicate you are contrasting your ideas here:]
# ...spirit is spirit, it is from the boundless darkness
# and flame within- and that DOES NOT change at all.
# It is eternal, it is ONE. It is also known as "the
# void." It is unchanging, tho all change arised FROM
# that, which we can see and even measure....
not that different from other religious 'spirit' then.
it does have that inverted-metaphysics I mentioned, with
matter deriving *from* spirit, in contrast with most of
our scientific metaphysics, yes.
Well, if you call the boundless darkness/flame spirit - then yes, it doesn't
change, it is ONE. But it CAUSES change - and constant change at that!
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...Asat Sat never changes in the sense that stars and
# planets change. that is why that is Being-NESS ITself.
how did you determine its changeless condition?
The concept of change is of the cosmos, not outside of the cosmos. How do I
determine c major from c minor chords? I hear it. spirit is also not
concerned with the matters of humans or practical things and such.

Read asat sat and tan - it's up to be read there .
Post by SOD of the CoE
<your issues with sri catyananda, not relevant to Satanism,
are taken private -- snip>
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-08 03:30:01 UTC
Permalink
50041207 viii om Hail Satan!

discussion pertaining to metaphysics and a Sat-Tanic 'Spirit'
not unlike numerous other fundamental 'spirits' that are
integral to a host of theologies world-round:

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
#>#>#># ...The satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical
#>#>#># - and since the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to
#>#>#># change along WITH it.

bobo:
#>#>#> ...does the spiritual world change at all?
#>#>#> or is it changeless, somehow?

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
#># I said spiritual....

#># ...CHI.... All things are spirit - and all living things
#># are matter IN spirit....

my impression is that the specificity on this point intends
to identify most plainly the self in the context. that is,
'matter in spirit' because the spirit *makes* the matter,
and all of change in the changing (material) universe.

#> often the notion is 'spirit in matter', a kind of meat-
#> puppet viewpoint of the cosmos. what does "matter IN
#> spirit" mean, exactly? which parts are the spirit and
#> what, if either, has priority? do you believe that the
#> spirit survives bodily disintegration (death)? if so, why?
#
# See this article which I wrote - the beginning where it talks about
# viewpoint and what I mean by spirit.
# http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-shamanism.html

yes, you could easily have quoted this portion (a quote of an
unnamed Lakota native American):

GoD| It also exists as an entirety - that which we call the Universe -
GoD| just aas our body, for example, exists as an entirety while still
GoD| being made up of discrete components which exist individually and
GoD| separately. Spirit, likewise, exists as something like a 'field'
GoD| encompassing - and permeating - all things in the physiical
GoD| universe. Where that spirit permeates an individual, component
GoD| 'thing' within the Universe, it too, exists as an individual,
GoD| discrete 'thing' (or 'essence' if you will) and that individual
GoD| spirit reflects (or determines, depending mostly on your point
GoD| of view) the Nature of the physical thing it is attached to.
GoD| Consciousness, with its emotions, ideas, values, moral character,
GoD| etc., springs from this spirit, not from the physical object
GoD| itself. In other words, 'I' am not a body with a 'soul' or
GoD| 'spirit' residing within, but rather {I am} a 'spirit' or
GoD| 'soul' residing within a particular body. Since 'Spirit'
GoD| permeates all things, everywhere, we assume that all 'things'
GoD| have spirit within them."
G0D|
GoD| [Note that the Native American we are quoting does not consider
GoD| himself or his people, the Lakota, Shamanistic and they might
GoD| not be if he's relying on what real Shamanism is. But his
GoD| definition here is very good for concepts that are in real
GoD| Shamanism....]

with which you appear to agree.

apparently rhetorically, or absent the notion of alternatives:
# ...how can a person know the difference unless they directly
# hear it?

bobo sez: we can perceive illusions, mirages, and projections.
but they have little more reality than our concepts.

[you indicate you are contrasting your ideas here:]
#># ...spirit is spirit, it is from the boundless darkness
#># and flame within- and that DOES NOT change at all.
#># It is eternal, it is ONE. It is also known as "the
#># void." It is unchanging, tho all change arised FROM
#># that, which we can see and even measure....

#> not that different from other religious 'spirit' then.

we might compare and contrast the ideas expressed a while
back by Diane Vera and others on such an Dark Force or Energy.
my examination of "The Satanic Rituals" (particularly the
Adult Baptism Rite) indicates to me that the idea of 'The
Black Flame' varies in its character (therein it was conceived
of a thing through which one travelled, a kind of *gate*).

my assistance with which you seem to agree:
#> ...matter deriving *from* spirit....

# ...if you call the boundless darkness/flame spirit -
# then yes, it doesn't change, it is ONE. But it CAUSES
# change - and constant change at that!

the fact of your assurance and attestation is quite clear.

#># ...Asat Sat never changes in the sense that stars and
#># planets change. that is why that is Being-NESS ITself.
#>
#> how did you determine its changeless condition?
#
# The concept of change is of the cosmos, not outside of the
# cosmos.

have you ever been able to get information about something
*outside the cosmos*? if so, how did you get this data?

# How do I determine c major from c minor chords? I hear it.
# spirit is also not concerned with the matters of humans or
# practical things and such....

so your perception of the Dark Force convinced you of its
changeless condition?

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-08 06:02:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041207 viii om Hail Satan!
discussion pertaining to metaphysics and a Sat-Tanic 'Spirit'
not unlike numerous other fundamental 'spirits' that are
#>#>#># ...The satanism is SPIRITUAL. The other shit is practical
#>#>#># - and since the PRACTICAL WORLD changes - it is wise to
#>#>#># change along WITH it.
#>#>#> ...does the spiritual world change at all?
#>#>#> or is it changeless, somehow?
#># I said spiritual....
#># ...CHI.... All things are spirit - and all living things
#># are matter IN spirit....
my impression is that the specificity on this point intends
to identify most plainly the self in the context. that is,
'matter in spirit' because the spirit *makes* the matter,
and all of change in the changing (material) universe.
Almost correct. The Spirit (darkness/flame) EMANATED the space/time and
matter/energy and continues to push/pull - which causes the constant change
in the material universe. It didn't exactly "make" it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> often the notion is 'spirit in matter', a kind of meat-
#> puppet viewpoint of the cosmos. what does "matter IN
#> spirit" mean, exactly? which parts are the spirit and
#> what, if either, has priority? do you believe that the
#> spirit survives bodily disintegration (death)? if so, why?
#
# See this article which I wrote - the beginning where it talks about
# viewpoint and what I mean by spirit.
# http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-shamanism.html
yes, you could easily have quoted this portion (a quote of an
He posts as Mibby, he doesn't want to be outed. First name, Jon? But I
only quoted him in a very small part of it. But that's about it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
GoD| It also exists as an entirety - that which we call the Universe -
GoD| just aas our body, for example, exists as an entirety while still
GoD| being made up of discrete components which exist individually and
GoD| separately. Spirit, likewise, exists as something like a 'field'
GoD| encompassing - and permeating - all things in the physiical
GoD| universe. Where that spirit permeates an individual, component
GoD| 'thing' within the Universe, it too, exists as an individual,
GoD| discrete 'thing' (or 'essence' if you will) and that individual
GoD| spirit reflects (or determines, depending mostly on your point
GoD| of view) the Nature of the physical thing it is attached to.
GoD| Consciousness, with its emotions, ideas, values, moral character,
GoD| etc., springs from this spirit, not from the physical object
GoD| itself. In other words, 'I' am not a body with a 'soul' or
GoD| 'spirit' residing within, but rather {I am} a 'spirit' or
GoD| 'soul' residing within a particular body. Since 'Spirit'
GoD| permeates all things, everywhere, we assume that all 'things'
GoD| have spirit within them."
G0D|
GoD| [Note that the Native American we are quoting does not consider
GoD| himself or his people, the Lakota, Shamanistic and they might
GoD| not be if he's relying on what real Shamanism is. But his
GoD| definition here is very good for concepts that are in real
GoD| Shamanism....]
with which you appear to agree.
Yes, I see a ftp error on there and a font booboo. Will fix. LMAO.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...how can a person know the difference unless they directly
# hear it?
bobo sez: we can perceive illusions, mirages, and projections.
but they have little more reality than our concepts.
[you indicate you are contrasting your ideas here:]
#># ...spirit is spirit, it is from the boundless darkness
#># and flame within- and that DOES NOT change at all.
#># It is eternal, it is ONE. It is also known as "the
#># void." It is unchanging, tho all change arised FROM
#># that, which we can see and even measure....
#> not that different from other religious 'spirit' then.
we might compare and contrast the ideas expressed a while
back by Diane Vera and others on such an Dark Force or Energy.
my examination of "The Satanic Rituals" (particularly the
Adult Baptism Rite) indicates to me that the idea of 'The
Black Flame' varies in its character (therein it was conceived
of a thing through which one travelled, a kind of *gate*).
#> ...matter deriving *from* spirit....
# ...if you call the boundless darkness/flame spirit -
# then yes, it doesn't change, it is ONE. But it CAUSES
# change - and constant change at that!
the fact of your assurance and attestation is quite clear.
#># ...Asat Sat never changes in the sense that stars and
#># planets change. that is why that is Being-NESS ITself.
#>
#> how did you determine its changeless condition?
#
# The concept of change is of the cosmos, not outside of the
# cosmos.
have you ever been able to get information about something
*outside the cosmos*? if so, how did you get this data?
Kundalini yoga - what is more or less called "void yoga" (yoga of this time,
I mean trance state, not exercise). What I find astounding is what has
been intuited this way, "AS IF" thru the senses - is also coming up to be
damned close to science - big bang stuff - and that kinda blows my mind,
Tyagi! If you take out the darkness part - just leave in that POINT of
light/flame/vajra we speak of (incomprehensible, we say it is) - then it IS
big bang theory!
Post by SOD of the CoE
# How do I determine c major from c minor chords? I hear it.
# spirit is also not concerned with the matters of humans or
# practical things and such....
so your perception of the Dark Force convinced you of its
changeless condition?
Yes and no - I'm beginning to see that this is NOT easy to explain to a
person that has NOT experienced it! Hmm! Too bad.

Here is what the main thing says up on the site

It must be clearly understood (if that's even possible) that the concepts
themselves of Deity and Spirit are nothing like Western concepts of such
things.

There is a Supreme Spirit. That's as-given. Even inside of one culture,
there can be many titles for it (not names). For example: The Lord Time
Devourer; Boundless Everpresent Darkness; Incomprehensible Black Fire; Great
Spirit; Great Mystery Spirit; The Incomprehensible Thatness; The Beingness;
The Be-ness; The Infinite and Ineffable IS; The Unknowable Absolute; and so
forth.

This is something that is felt to be in all things, not just living things.
It's not some abstract idea of the mind alone. This Deity is never
exclusively transcendent or apart from all things; it is both transcendent
in that it is the first thing even before the "all that is" (Cosmos), It is
before anything else was; but it is also in all things, here, and/or all
things here are in IT!. Both. It is a force or field that permeates and
motivates all that is.

As one Native American put it when specifically asked about this: "The
physical universe consists of many individual things, including the bodies
we inhabit and everything those bodies perceive through the ordinary senses.
It also exists as an entirety - that which we call the Universe - just as
our body, for example, exists as an entirety while still being made up of
discrete components which exist individually and separately. Spirit,
likewise, exists as something like a 'field' encompassing - and permeating -
all things in the physical universe. Where that spirit permeates an
individual, component 'thing' within the Universe, it too, exists as an
individual, discrete 'thing' (or 'essence' if you will) and that individual
spirit reflects (or determines, depending mostly on your point of view) the
Nature of the physical thing it is attached to. Consciousness, with its
emotions, ideas, values, moral character, etc, springs from this spirit, not
from the physical object itself. In other words, 'I' am not a body with a
'soul' or 'spirit' residing within, but rather [I am] a 'spirit' or 'soul'
residing within a particular body. Since 'Spirit' permeates all things,
everywhere, we assume that all 'things' have spirit within them." [Note that
the Native American we are quoting does not consider himself or his people,
the Lakota, Shamanistic and they might not be if he's relying on what real
Shamanism is. But his definition here is very good for concepts that are in
real Shamanism. There is more to Shamanism than just this. There is much
more to Shamanism than what is stated in the dictionary.

Also understand that in much of practical Shamanism, the concepts can sound
very simple when a stranger comes and asks about it, but the concepts can
also be things that modern day physicists understand only now. So they are
not so simple after all. The "deity" is just the first part of what
Shamanism is.

Please keep in mind that all things in the universe are permeated and
motivated by what is conceived of as Spirit.

Then there are specific types of spirits or types of things that are
considered permanent; for instance earth, wind, fire, water, air, sky, sun,
and moon. These are things that are "permanent" - always there. They are
always what they are, they never seem to grow old and die. That's the
concept. For instance: fire, fire is always fire; it gives and consumes, it
transforms, etc. Water is soft, yielding, enveloping, permeating, etc. Even
though it's soft, water can still overpower earth and fire. Rock is hard,
silent, static and stationary. This is known through observation and you can
know the spirit of these things through observation. Sure, there are
exceptions to this - rock slides would show rock to be not so stationary.
However, basically, these are seen as more permanent things/spirits.

There is more than one kind of observation. There is observation with the
senses such as with actual practice, trial and error - how things tend to
practically work; and there is observation with the heart and intuitive
mind, informing us of the spirit of the things, or animals. (It would be so
much easier to explain if one could just touch the earth and know its
spirit! Or breathe in the air and know not only its spirit, but it's mood.
But then, you'd have to be raised to be able to do that - like Shamanistic
people!)

Then there are the spirits of things that are not so permanent, not always
there, and not always the same: like trees, or animals, including people.
When these non-permanent things die, the Spirit lives on. How it lives on
varies, just as how it lives its life can vary. It can be reincarnated. It
can linger and be very destructive or very helpful. What a spirit lingering
on after death becomes, it not necessarily what the being was when he/she/it
was alive.

The rest after this deals with specific yogas (errr, trance states).
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Kori Houghton
2004-12-08 02:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
Uh huh, thanks to Cat, the new official castrati drone dogma on here is
gonna be that me and Tiffany are the same person,
You're right, Tani isn't Tiffany. I did some checking last night, and
read thru all of Tiffany's sites and pages. Tiffany is in her early
20s, and looks nothing like Tani. Tiffany mentions her hubby, and has
photos on her site she took herself of her dogs and a very adorable
kittie. She's an artist, and I think she has a promising eye for
composition. Of course it's absurd for someone in their teens to style
themselves as an HP of anything, but hey that is youth. I've been
there. I hereby offer my sincere apology to Tiffany for connecting her
in any way with Jantsang/Lysenko. I was mistaken -- I should have
checked it out first.
Post by Tani Jantsang
when she is an org leader
of her own, never met me, and I don't know her. Right on.
Hopefully, for Tiffany's sake, you will remain strangers.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Thanks to Cat,
Phyllis's name is still bandied on here, yet she may have left all occultism
in 1975 as far as I know, and the symbol on Vad's page has somethning to do
with her, when he never met her. Thanks to Cat, a whole heep of utter
rubbish about irrelevant shit is going to be the new dogma that the gang of
drones use to hurl at me, like so much impotent flame. Thanks to Cat, a
heap of DISinformation is on here.
"whole heep" Uh huh. You do know that you are the only one who writes
this phrase this way according to the alt.s archive? You and your
an0ns0cks.
Post by Tani Jantsang
So you tell me, the wiccans say that you and she are the biggest liars on
usenet.
Maybe they are the biggest ***after*** you.
Post by Tani Jantsang
And now I refer to wiccans that I have great respect for and know
OUTSIDE of the cesspool called usenet. I think they are right.
One research error of Cat's and my lapse of good judgement concerning
Tiffany does not erase seven years of your ranting posts, accusing
innocent usenet participants of libel, stalking, and making physical
threats against you -- which to this day remain unsubstantiated. I
admitted my error above, and apologized on the record. Where are your
admissions of error and bad judgement; where are your apologies?
Post by Tani Jantsang
I'm not Tiffany. I'm not any of the 3 Phyllises that were playing music
with me.
The matter of Tiffany was relatively easy to resolve. The question
remains -- why you used the name of a real person (or so you say) that
was not your own.
Post by Tani Jantsang
She procrastinates and apologized for it - but she evidently asks questions
she has no intention of reading the answers to - and then dedicatedly POSTS
falsehoods and crazy innuendos. That is what she DID - and that is a DEED,
not an opinion.
Why don't you heed your own advice, Tanya, and stop flying off your
ranting handle on here?


Luv,
Kori
catherine yronwode
2004-12-08 04:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Tani Jantsang
Uh huh, thanks to Cat, the new official castrati drone dogma on
here is gonna be that me and Tiffany are the same person,
One research error of Cat's and my lapse of good judgement
concerning Tiffany does not erase seven years of your ranting
posts, accusing innocent usenet participants of libel, stalking,
and making physical threats against you -- which to this day
remain unsubstantiated. I admitted my error above, and apologized
on the record. Where are your admissions of error and bad
judgement; where are your apologies?
For the record, i did not state that i thought Tani was Tiffany. I
left it as a sarcastic, humourous question, not answered. I wrote that
the Satanic Reds was listed officially as

---------------------------------------------------------
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
[...] contact information as follows:
The Satanic Council
[...]
Also at the old version of the site is a list of Satanic
Council affiliates. The affiliate site in Florida (home
state of Tanya Lysenko) [...]

The Church of Satanic Unity
8944 Marigold Drive
New Port Richey Florida 34654
The United Council:
High Priestess: Tiffany Layden
[...]
And the owner... didja notice that the owner is the Rev.
Tiffany Layden -- "TL" in Florida. Hmmmm.
---------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Kori, for doing the research for which i did not have time.
And my apologies for using sarcasm ("Hmmm [...] 'TL' in Florida") when
i could have simply said "The identity of Tiffany Layden is unknown to
me." Sarcasm isn't something i do often or well.

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Correspondence Course ----- http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocourse.html
Kori Houghton
2004-12-08 05:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by catherine yronwode
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Tani Jantsang
Uh huh, thanks to Cat, the new official castrati drone dogma on
here is gonna be that me and Tiffany are the same person,
One research error of Cat's and my lapse of good judgement
concerning Tiffany does not erase seven years of your ranting
posts, accusing innocent usenet participants of libel, stalking,
and making physical threats against you -- which to this day
remain unsubstantiated. I admitted my error above, and apologized
on the record. Where are your admissions of error and bad
judgement; where are your apologies?
For the record, i did not state that i thought Tani was Tiffany.
That's right. You did not. I thought you were being, like, overly
thorough...ironic. If I were mistaken for Tiffany, i wouldn't be
insulted. She seems like an okay kid.
Post by catherine yronwode
I
left it as a sarcastic, humourous question, not answered. I wrote that
the Satanic Reds was listed officially as
---------------------------------------------------------
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
The Satanic Council
[...]
Also at the old version of the site is a list of Satanic
Council affiliates. The affiliate site in Florida (home
state of Tanya Lysenko) [...]
The Church of Satanic Unity
8944 Marigold Drive
New Port Richey Florida 34654
High Priestess: Tiffany Layden
[...]
And the owner... didja notice that the owner is the Rev.
Tiffany Layden -- "TL" in Florida. Hmmmm.
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, Kori, for doing the research for which i did not have time.
And my apologies for using sarcasm ("Hmmm [...] 'TL' in Florida") when
i could have simply said "The identity of Tiffany Layden is unknown to
me." Sarcasm isn't something i do often or well.
It's hard to do on chat boards. Even emoticons don't really help.
Lots of folks ignore them, and get their backs up over just the words.
IMO this is, at least in part, a result of the visual media pop
culture. People read very little, and lots never develop the the skill
of catching all the details writers use to make a point. Tani has
admitted herself in this NG that she doesn't read much. Which, of
course, may not be true...an untrustworthy narrator? I know she
(perhaps?) completely misunderstood the example I gave about writing a
***hypothetical article*** for her site. Now she posts that I made her
an offer to write for her, which I did not. I would make such an offer
to the person directly. Ack!

Thank you for the clarification.

Kori
Post by catherine yronwode
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Correspondence Course ----- http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocourse.html
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-08 06:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by catherine yronwode
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Tani Jantsang
Uh huh, thanks to Cat, the new official castrati drone dogma on
here is gonna be that me and Tiffany are the same person,
One research error of Cat's and my lapse of good judgement
concerning Tiffany does not erase seven years of your ranting
posts, accusing innocent usenet participants of libel, stalking,
and making physical threats against you -- which to this day
remain unsubstantiated. I admitted my error above, and apologized
on the record. Where are your admissions of error and bad
judgement; where are your apologies?
For the record, I resorted to threats BACK to people that threatened me I
did not libel them - heh, I told the damned truth about them (exposing
prison records, their chat lots which they ADMITTED to, their threatening
emails which they ADMITTED to). I see it might be time to make yet ONE MORE
website and put the COS FILES back up there - where all the threats and
libel are right there to see. Or one can just go read Ole Wolf's "Emperor's
New Religion" for a more scholarly type essay on the whole revolting fiasco.
And there were MANY more after that. Of course, if I threaten them BACK
after they did it to me 10 times over - they WHINE about it.

It is like this: THEY can harass, THEY can libel thru the roof, THEY can
incite offline trouble - but when anyone even hints of doing it back to
them, OH, you never heard the end of it.
Post by catherine yronwode
For the record, i did not state that i thought Tani was Tiffany. I
left it as a sarcastic, humourous question, not answered.
Uh huh. Deeds, Cat. Deeds.

I wrote that
Post by catherine yronwode
the Satanic Reds was listed officially as
---------------------------------------------------------
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
The Satanic Council
Yes, SR was on the Council for a very short while - and then got off it. As
far as I know - when SR got off it, the Council soon no longer existed.
Post by catherine yronwode
[...]
Also at the old version of the site is a list of Satanic
Council affiliates. The affiliate site in Florida (home
state of Tanya Lysenko) [...]
My birth name is Tani Jantsang. Please call me that, because that is WHO I
am. I can cash checks made out to me under my birth name (and most ARE made
out to that). My credit card is Tani Jantsang - and so forth. You seem to
like referring to Anton LaVey by his birth name. Do me the same kindness, if
that's not TOO hard.
Post by catherine yronwode
The Church of Satanic Unity
8944 Marigold Drive
New Port Richey Florida 34654
High Priestess: Tiffany Layden
[...]
And the owner... didja notice that the owner is the Rev.
Tiffany Layden -- "TL" in Florida. Hmmmm.
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, Kori, for doing the research for which i did not have time.
And my apologies for using sarcasm ("Hmmm [...] 'TL' in Florida") when
i could have simply said "The identity of Tiffany Layden is unknown to
me." Sarcasm isn't something i do often or well.
Her freaking address is right on there. Clue, Cat - MOST of these people
that were on the council stay the hell off this cesspool usenet. Right, you
procrastinate well. You have no time to read answers to questions you asked
in detail too well, either. But post to this cesspool and give people shit
to throw at me when they have BEEN doing this to me since before 9/11
happened is what you DO have time for . Deeds, Cat.

Looks like HrVad answered you about yet another DEED - posting information
about Vad's apodion.com website and a rose image he had on there, and
linking it to a girl I knew in the 60s and early 70s (which I did write to
you about in your email query, the one you didn't have time to read yet due
to procrastination......). DEEDS, Cat.

These morons have accused me of some of the most absurd shit on the planet -
and it all started with Filan and his org instigating it. It has not let
up. Why don't YOU try to figure out why. It's obvious. They do not want
the SR to exist - and to date, in the short time SR has been around, it has
more members in it than the COS ever had in all his history. FACT. The
actual numbers were outed by Karla and Zeena after the court trial. Aquino,
likewise, had access to that info and outed it or documents it in his book.
We have many more - and we've only been around a very short time without
much publicity. We have no hierarchy in the SR. We do not charge money in
the SR.

Now, I know that people in the dedicated left (you say you were this) have a
hard time viewing life outside of conspiracies or whatnot. I do not view J.
Arch Getty as a pro Stalinist OR an anti commie or whatever because he
wrote THE TRUTH with archival back up - in books. But among the lefties,
all kinds of theories abound - and imo they are crazy. I wrote info on TDL
because I FOUND it - and the info is highly referenced for a change. I
wrote info on the poilice orgs because the perpetrated dogma was that the
NKVD was the KGB. NO IT WAS AND IS NOT. It is NOT the same organization at
all. Just as the Sheriff Dept of Lee County, or the State Police, is NOT
the CIA. If you or anyone else has some kind of "issue" over ME writing
info on that AND ALSO having a Satanic org, or a Catholic org, or a Buddhist
org, or whatever religious org you can think up - well heh, that's too bad.
I don't care. To me (and that is the ONLY person that matters, Cat) IT IS
NO BIG DEAL. I'm a registered republican. I don't party with people in
fringe politics, never had a thing to do with the extreme left save to type
and get paid and give them a headache arguing with them when they ASKED for
debate.

The 10 points in the SR are, as I defined in the FAQ, only political ON THE
SURFACE. On the level I mean them, they are also a sign of CHARACTER. Who
on earth would NOT want those things in their society? WHO?

Ben was expelled from the Sr by Brendan due to his tirades AGAINST the
LIVING WAGE. His solution is to "do without." NO - that is NOT an option.
We live in a TECHNO society. The modern tech is supposed to make life LESS
stressful and allow us to work LESS hours and have MORE leisure. That has
not happened. Doing without the things available IN a techno society - the
simplest of pleasures even - is NOT an option. Getting a LIVING WAGE is a
MUST unless more people go homeless. And contrary to what a clone-drone on
here says about "the founders" plural when he has NO CLUE how the org is
run - I knew Ben's views and just debated him on it because, imo, he just
did not understand WHAT a living wage was and kept bringing up low rents
(yeah, in 65 or older only communities, LMAO) . Bren kicked him out for NOT
understanding or agreeing with one of the 10. That simple. One of the
other founders booted out another person and I didn't even KNOW that
happened. I found out later that happened, when the person TOLD me. I'm a
lot more tolerant than the others. Aside from which, someone posted on a
Danish website that ANYONE that is in the COS that gets involved or joins an
organization that is AGAINST the COS - should consider themselves
automatically expelled from the COS. Ben IS in the COS. He shouldn't have
been in the SR in the first place, apparently.

Over the years, no matter how hard we try, linking up with HUGE
organizations to get it - it just starts to seem as if even VOTING doesn't
mean anything anymore. One org tracked an email about faxes. The one sent
to me generated THIRTY THOUSAND FAXES to government, Cat. IN ONE WEEK.
Just ONE email ended up with 30 thousand faxes due to how we do things. Did
all that do any good? Well, sometimes yes. Most of the time, NO. Down
here we DID join up with a BIG group that INCLUDED fundamentalist Christians
in their ranks - and the constant bombardment to schools of info about
monitoring bully beharior and what those kinds of kids DO to othere kids -
SOMETHING GOT DONE - a committee was formed to see what should be done and
they started to CONSIDER this stuff, take it seriously. SUCCESS. In my
state, we had a VOTE about English language only - and it won hands down.
Did we get it? NO. So why vote, Cat? Why even bother. If what goes on in
the prisons is any indication (racialist groups form and train people IN
those jails) - that's just gonna spill out into the rest of the nation
sooner or later due to all this crap. It's already starting to happen in
Europe - where they are realizing that "the diversity dream" is a nightmare
and they want to END it. Diversity is NOT the same thing as assimilation
into the society.

But take a look at it, the MAJORITY want to STOP the illegal immigration and
most of that majority want the ones that are here thrown out. Does that get
done? Majority of TAX PAYERS want this - and their representatives are NOT
representing them at all. When corporations can BUY the government - that
IS FASCISM.

I'm in favor of putting OUR troops on OUR borders and shoot to kill anyone
trying to break and enter into the sovereign nation USA. MANY agree with
that, too. That certainly would discourage more from TRYING to come here.
By law, I have a right to shoot to death anyont that breaks and enters into
MY HOME. The USA is supposed to be the HOME of the citizenry. And if the
law was right - car thieves would be put to death just as horse thieves
were. You can NOT be tolerant toward people that are intolerant and who
walk on tolerant people as if they are doormats. The left never realized
that. The left also blocks out human nature and instinct. If I HAD to
categorize my views into some category - SOCIOBIOLOGY would fit them the
best.

You speak about free will. Well, the free will of most of the people I hang
with offline and click with is definitely NOT like YOUR free will, or the
free will of people who commit a lot of crime. Sooner or later, our free
wills tend to AGREE on just what to DO about it. And it's NOT pleasant like
a slap on the hand. Free will STOPS at my door. Let a person break and
enter into my home of HIS own free will - and he will get lead in his head.
Period. That would also save the taxpayers a lot of money having to try the
criminal and then house him in a hotel called a jail for many years, whewre
he is fed, given a TV and whatever else. Did you think I was a liberal?
I'm liberal on SOME things. But I draw lines. Every single SR point has
the word "CITIZENS" in it. What did you think that meant? Did you read
that with leftist eyes? I happen to BELIEVE 100% that the Big Left was
funded by Moscow to DESTROY the USA and trun everything good upside down on
its head. The archives have been opened. VIOLA! Hoover was RIGHT. Also
now, when corporations can guy gov officials, that is fascism. I say if
nationalizing these companies is what it takes - then DO IT.

HERE:

The Washington Dispatch

Time Magazine Exposes Illegal Immigration

Commentary by Frosty Wooldridge

September 16, 2004



You haven't been able to see it before this week since no major media

sources reported it. Politicians have run from it faster than Marion Jones

sprinted from her drug testing dates. Chris Cannon, one of America's most

pro-illegal alien congressmen, escape from answering to it better than

Houdini. Senator Teddy Kennedy aids it better than Mexico's President

Vincente 'Mr. Corruption' Fox. The rest of Congress runs from it faster

than cockroaches scamper from the light of day. ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and CNN

scatter from it like quail in autumn's hunting season.

However, all of us to some degree feel it, lose our jobs from it, tolerate

chaos in our schools, suffer from language confusion, stomach growing

diseases, die from it, get raped, robbed, scammed or pay for it every day of

our lives. What is it?

Short answer: It's an illegal alien migration invasion now estimated over 15

million plus inside our country and 4,000 more crossing our borders nightly.

With brilliant reporting by veteran journalists Donald L. Barlett and James

B. Steel, in "WHO LEFT THE DOOR OPEN?" TIME MAGAZINE opened Pandora's box on

the most vexing national crisis since Vietnam. Their report renders a

profound, penetrating and powerful message of a nation-destroying dilemma

not known since the Roman Empire fell from the marauding Vandals.

President Bush refuses to defend against it and Congress, slithered into the

back pockets of corporations who have no loyalty to America or its citizens,

assist it. So much so, senators and congressmen are in violation of their

oaths of office. It's a conspiracy against every citizen and walk of

American life.

Americans who board planes or cross checkpoints must endure the following:

"You must show photo ID, remove your shoes, take off your belts, empty your

pockets, get wand waved, answer questions and have your 80 year old

grandmothers patted down.while, each day over 4,000 illegal aliens walk

across the 375 mile border between Mexico and Arizona. No searches for

weapons. No ID checks. No passports. Many obtain phony identification

papers and bogus social security numbers long before they reach America."

So much for Tom Ridge's and Condi Rice's assurance that America is safer

today than before 9/11.

One rancher on the border, Roger Barnett, with his wife and brother, "In the

past five years we have personally stopped and detained 12,000 illegal

aliens crossing our land." In the meantime, they have had to pick up an

estimated eight pounds of trash left by every single illegal alien who drops

their essentials before being picked up. In sum total, annually, illegal

aliens leave over eight million pounds of trash in the desert. It wrecks

havoc on plants and animals alike.

"Night after night, they cut fences intended to hold cattle and horses,"

John Ladd, a rancher said. "Cows that eat the bags must often be killed

because the plastic becomes lodged in their stomachs. The aliens steal

vehicles and saddles. They poison dogs to quiet them."

"All these people say they are coming for the amnesty program. They have

been told if they get 10 miles off the border, they are home free," George

Morin, Arizona rancher.

How many illegals will rush into the USA this year? Barlett writes, "The

number of illegals flooding into the U.S. this year will total three

million-enough to fill 22,000 Boeing 737-700 airliners or 60 flights a day

for a year. It is triple the number of immigrants who come to the U.S. by

legal means."

Is America secure? About as secure as a baby chick in the pen with a

rattlesnake! From October of last year to August 25, 2004, 55,890 illegal

aliens OTM's (other than Mexicans) were caught as they crossed the border

from Middle Eastern countries hostile to the USA. That's only the ones they

caught. Border Patrol catches only one in four.

Does anyone think the same nightmare in Beslan, Russia where 300 school kids

suffered violent death at the hands of Muslim killers can't happen here?

Think again.

The distribution system in human smuggling would make United Parcel Service

and Greyhound Bus Lines envious. How much money is spent? FORBES MAGAZINE

tabulated a $7 billion annual business for smuggling illegals from the

Middle East, China, India and South America. Aliens arrive in big busses

which disperse them to vans and SUV's--to be driven to pickup points where

'coyotes' await to bring them across the border in the dead of night. Those

coyotes along with drug smugglers rape and even kill their clients in the

desert. One coyote makes $5,000.00 per week.

Arizona citizens are frustrated from the Border Patrol's 'catch and release'

program mandated by Congress. Apprehended aliens are given a sack lunch and

driven back to the border. One man interviewed attempted crossing 11 times.

"Corporate America thrives on illegals," Steele reported.

"Corporate managers go so far as to place orders with smugglers for a

specific number of bodies to be delivered," Steele reported. "They employ

illegal aliens at wages so low that few citizens could afford to take the

jobs, but it's great for profits and stockholders.that's why the payrolls of

so many businesses-meat packers, poultry processors, landscape firms,

construction companies, office cleaning firms and corner stores among

others-are jammed with illegals.companies are rarely if ever punished."

However, it is a federal crime punishable up to $10,000 and a prison

sentence for each illegal alien hired. Nonetheless, with Congress in the

back pockets of corporations, Third World Momentum escalates across the U.S.

What is that 'momentum?' It's a virulent form of corruption imbedded deeply

into the system, so much so, the rule of law is thwarted and crime prevails.

It's the standard by which Third World countries operate and it's now

running at full speed in America.

The TIME report exposed a growing crime network. Now operating in 28

cities, MS-13 gangs rob, kill, distribute drugs and run prostitution rings

while being protected by "Special Order 40."

Who is at risk? American citizens! The future viability of the United

States!

Part II: Crime, drug distribution and diseases being imported with illegal

aliens.

TIME MAGAZINE, SEPTEMBER 12, 2004, "WHO LEFT THE DOOR OPEN?"



CNN's Lou Dobbs speaks about this national crisis weekly. O'Reilly dabbles

in it with reluctant flippancy. FOX NEWS ignores it. The New York Times,

Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times and Miami Herald support it. La Raza, a

national Hispanic pro-illegal alien and open-borders organization, licks its

lips at the speed of this invasion. But, finally, TIME MAGAZINE exposed it

with sobering pictures and interviews.

Illegal aliens bring Americans Third World Momentum. That includes crime,

drugs and diseases. Sooner or later, every American community and millions

of Americans will be affected as we allow three million illegal aliens

breaching our borders annually without regard to their health, criminal

background or drug expansion endeavors.

In TIME'S "WHO LEFT THE DOOR OPEN?" September 12, 2004, journalists Barlett

and Steele exposed the ugly side of this invasion.

"The plight of Jim Dickson, a hospital administrator in Bisbee, Arizona

summed it up in one image," Barlett wrote. "It's an ambulance that pulls

into Copper Queen Hospital and discharges illegal aliens injured in an auto

accident. The border patrol officers on orders from Washington refused to

take them onto the property. Instead, the officers call an ambulance for

the injured so the U.S. Government won't be responsible for hospital costs.

Instead, Dickson's hospital gets stiffed."

In 2003, 77 border state hospitals spiraled into bankruptcy. Instead of

putting troops on the borders to stop the invasion, Arizona Senators McCain

and Kyle added a $1.4 billion bailout rider onto a Medicaid bill. Instead

of doing their jobs, they made taxpayers vomit their hard-earned money into

paying for the invasion's consequences. Result? It wasn't enough. Three

Los Angeles area hospitals bankrupted already this year. Dickson's small

hospital lost $1.4 million in the past three years. "The more free care we

give," he said, "the more we have to ration what's left."

Congress mandates hospitals serve illegal aliens but fails to mandate

payment. American citizens lose care and money to the invasion.

"The highest levels of the U.S. and Mexican governments have orchestrated

this situation as a kind of dance," Steele reported. "Mexico sends its poor

north to take jobs illegally and the U.S. arrests enough border crossers to

create the illusion that it is enforcing immigration laws while allowing the

majority to get through."

The crisis spins so far out of control that ranchers see a day of reckoning

fast approaching. Armed American militia forces stand ready to start

shooting. Everyone, including women, pack guns on the border.

Even more chilling than hospitals collapsing concerns an increasing number

of unchecked aliens importing diseases into the USA. In five years, 16,000

cases of multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis breached the Mexican border. In

three years, 7,000 cases of leprosy (Hansen's Disease) arrived with

immigrants from India, Brazil and the Caribbean. Tens of thousands of cases

of hepatitis A transplanted into America. Another South American disease,

affecting 14 million and killing 50,000 annually, Chagas Disease, a parasite

that attacks the heart and other organs, invades U.S. borders in the bodies

of the unchecked illegal aliens.

The crisis of these diseases won't play itself out for years. One TB

carrying illegal may infect 10 to 50 other persons depending on his/her

circulation in public. If he works in fast food, he may come in contact

with an unlimited number of people. If he has hepatitis A and serves on the

food line cutting onions or tomatoes, all customers stand at risk. If

illegal alien children, now number over 1.1 million in public schools are

infected, they can infect American children. This year, the Center for

Disease Control announced 14, 871 new cases of tuberculosis. It's only the

beginning.

Why Alien Criminals Are At Large in the U.S.

"From October 1, 2003 to July 20, 2004, the border patrol's Tucson sector

stopped 9,051 person crossing illegal who had criminal records in the U.S.,

meaning they committed crimes here, returned to Mexico, then were trying to

re-enter the country," Barlett wrote. "A minimum of 378 had active warrants

for their arrest."

Most go undetected.

"The numbers suggest that tens of thousands of criminals, quite possibly

hundreds of thousands, treat the border as a revolving door to crimes of

opportunity," Steele wrote. "The situation is so out of control that 400,000

illegal aliens who have been ordered deported, 80,000 have criminal records,

but Homeland Security does not have a clue as to the whereabouts of any of

them, including those from countries that support terrorism."

Of 114 Iranians with final orders for removal, only 11 could be found and

deported. Of 67 Sudanese with final removal orders, only one was deported.

Of 46 Iraqis, only four were deported. The rest are free to move about the

country.

Not mentioned in the report was the 20,000 member "18th Street Gang" made up

of 60% illegal aliens in Los Angeles. It distributes drugs from Mexico,

commits robberies daily, extorts businesses and engages in drive-by

shootings. Along with them, the 8,000 member MS 13 Central American gangs

operate in 28 cities. If anyone wonders why drugs are SO available to our

kids, thank our Congress for not fulfilling its oath of office. Even more

sobering, these alien criminals are protected in hundreds of cities across

the United States by "Special Order 40" that allows them to remain in

country without fear of arrest or deportation.

"Both parties and their candidates pay lip service to controlling the

borders," Barlett wrote. "In the 99/11 commission's final report, the panel

took note of the immigration breakdown saying, "'Two systemic weaknesses

came together in our border system's inability to contribute to an effective

defense against 9/11 attacks: a lack of well developed counterterrorism

measures as a part of border security and an immigration system not able to

deliver on its basic commitments, much less support counterterrorism.'"

The TIME report rendered severe implications toward President Bush and

members of Congress on both sides of the corridor. Citizens of the United

States were not being served before 9/11 and today, they are JUST as

vulnerable as 4,000 illegal aliens cross our borders daily. You have to

wonder when Beslan, Russia's tragedy will visit an American school in the

near future?

Frosty Wooldridge is a teacher and author who has bicycled 100,000 miles on

six continents to see overpopulation up close and ugly. His explosive book

published August 13, 2004: 'IMMIGRATION'S UNARMED INVASION-DEADLY

CONSEQUENCES.' Copies may be obtained at: 1-888-280-7715 at

www.authorhouse.com.
Post by catherine yronwode
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Correspondence Course ----- http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocourse.html
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-08 08:08:36 UTC
Permalink
This was emailed to select people by Gilmore before I was even online.
Note what he is ASKING people to do. Well, pretty much, his members are no
longer doing it, but his FANS ARE still doing it, right here and right now.
A gang of them. Read this. This is from Peter Gilmore regarding the
"enemies of the COS."



From: "hpoelzig" <***@ix.netcom.com>

To: <***@ix.netcom.com>

Subject: Attack/Counter-Attack?

Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:51:52 +0200

Message-ID: <***@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="Windows-1252"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

X-Priority: 3 (Normal)

X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997

X-Envelope-To: <***@dnai.com>

Importance: Normal

X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400

X-UIDL: 925743287.662.mercury.dnai.com

x-sender: ***@popd.ix.netcom.com



To our gang of regular alt.satanism posters:



I've noted a disappointing trend of late, and was curious as to why it

has arisen. Aside from the usual attacks on our organization/philosophy,

our detractors seem to delight in ad hominem attacks on the acknowledged

leaders of the Church of Satan.



This is nothing new, but they have been increasing in frequency. Anton

LaVey naturally gets the bulk of them (as founder and long-term leader),

but we have seen a spate of attacks on our High Priestess Blanche Barton,

Online Representative (and frequent defender of our supportive members

when they are attacked) Magistra Peggy Nadramia, Magister Boyd Rice, and

also myself.



Since neither Peggy nor I assiduously keep up with this forum for

spewage, we don't follow these snipes directly, but many of you do

forward them to us. What we don't then see are forwards of your responses

to these shabby posts. When we go to look, we often don't see many

responses, if any, while the peanut gallery chimes in with a litany of

abuse that largely goes unanswered.



If the forwards are meant for us to compile a list of creeps who, if

members, will be eventually terminated--we understand. But it appears to

me that, when these comments go without response, it looks like there is

some kind of tacit approval by all of you, who are clearly seen as voices

and thus representatives of the Church of Satan (and several on the list

of folk getting this are in the Priesthood, and a number of others may

yet achieve official public spokesperson status).



To be specific: Recently we have seen "Raw Scent" (aka Audey Morgan,

"Cameobuyer," "Belphagor," etc.--overweight homosexual and eBay

shill-bidder), YRabishu (no info), and David Cromwell (a wannabee writer

who sent a crappy article to TBF and when we didn't respond soon enough

sent a snotty email claiming we were stealing his material. I responded

that he's on my shit list for this behavior [and his writing really does,

by objective criteria for such things, suck]. He has since crawled back

with an apology and has not been favored with any response.). There are

others (the variably present Paul Valentine comes to mind). If you

haven't found enough info on these creeps to do a fair-play turnabout,

I'm certain that you have enough information on the individuals being

attacked to simply point out their many achievements as a counter. Also,

the very nature of these attacks are clear signs to anyone with even a

modicum of cold-reading ability to provide ammunition for a

surgical-strike response post.



We constantly see both Blanche and Peggy being accused of being fat when

in actuality neither of these ladies is obese, simply full-figured, which

is only a crime to those who follow herd values (and something of which

homosexuals are often jealous). Any who know these ladies personally can

vouch for their command-to-look powers. They also try to couple "lazy"

with this. Gee, our High Priestess is now a widow who is also raising a

child and running an international organization (and just recently

released a bang-up issue of "The Cloven Hoof") Peggy is accused of

holding back TBF (which is really my fault as I've spent too much time on

the official website--basically a single-handed creation), when she just

released another issue of her World fantasy Award-winning magazine,

"Grue." That these people are sitting at their keyboards, contributing

nothing but vitriol and waiting like the sucking black holes they are for

our products to fill their empty lives--products which they clearly can't

live without, should be obvious and easy to point out.



So, I know that all of you lead productive and very busy lives, and that

you all know what a cistern usenet is, but since you have made a presence

there (of your own free wills you have put on the hip-waders and gas

masks) and are looked to by those who merely lurk, it would certainly

help to preserve the image of the Church of Satan as one of a den of

rattlesnakes, extremely dangerous and loyal to the death in defense of

each other (an image Dr. LaVey wanted projected) if you pointed out the

nature of these blatherings and what it demonstrates about those who post

them.



Peggy particularly has worked to promote projects by many of you--both

online and in print, and HP Barton does the same in "TCH." Anton LaVey's

laurels are there for all to see. Boyd Rice also has quite a public body

of exemplary material, and you all know something about myself, I trust.



I haven't addressed this to any individuals specifically, and many of you

haven't ignored these attacks, and responded properly. And we note these

responses and they do mean something. But lately the guard has been let

down, and the image that comes to my mind by the resounding silence is

that of those faithful awaiting the arousal of the distant Gods to strike

the utterers of blasphemy.



We aren't theists, waiting for someone else to "Make it so." As

Satanists, we must take the bull by the balls and shatter all who oppose

us. That is, if you really do respect those who are being attacked.



You are all our shock troops, our special forces, our Waffen SS, and we'd

like to see you perhaps interact with one another and coordinate your

attacks on those who dare to try to besmirch our organization, and those

of us who I think have earned your respect as your leaders.



There are some out there, like Paul Valentine, who desperately seek

attention, particularly from those whom he attacks. But you can turn his

eustress to distress when armed with the proper ammo. Come to us for the

information if you need it, but I know that you all have enough savvy and

skill to work amongst yourselves to come up with tactical responses that

would make us proud.



So, here's to swatting the flies (it may not take that much effort) so

that we can continue with all of the real business of moving the world in

our chosen directions.



Hail Satan!



Peter H. Gilmore



THIS EMAIL WAS MAILED AS BCC TO GILMORE'S LOYAL STORM TROOPERS. IT IS NOT
ASKING PEOPLE TO TEASE ANYONE ONLINE. IT IS ASKING THEM TO BE LIKE THE
WAFFEN SS, IN OTHER WORDS, AN EXTERMINATION SQUAD.



Being his Einsatzgruppen is not exacly like "flaming people." Other
websites of their members were online threatening openly to do TERRORIST
activities against THE SR AND THE MEMBERS OF IT!! YES. Jason Winters of
the COS put that up. This was ALL documented on the COS Files.



So yes, I certainly do make threats that if they come near me, I'd do them
harm - serious harm - but they do NOT tell you that the cops even told me to
do this in self defense, seeing ALL of this as threatening. They outed my
neighbotrs addresses - I can EMAIL the proof to you, lest I post it and
RE-OUT them all. One family HAD TROUBLE because her information was aon a
satan related newsgroup - trouble with her church members. She had HEEPS of
trouble. Filan of the COS did that. These people do some serious research
in order to try to really HARM people who don't like that org. I'll email
it to you, with full headers.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by catherine yronwode
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Tani Jantsang
Uh huh, thanks to Cat, the new official castrati drone dogma on
here is gonna be that me and Tiffany are the same person,
One research error of Cat's and my lapse of good judgement
concerning Tiffany does not erase seven years of your ranting
posts, accusing innocent usenet participants of libel, stalking,
and making physical threats against you -- which to this day
remain unsubstantiated. I admitted my error above, and apologized
on the record. Where are your admissions of error and bad
judgement; where are your apologies?
For the record, I resorted to threats BACK to people that threatened me I
did not libel them - heh, I told the damned truth about them (exposing
prison records, their chat lots which they ADMITTED to, their threatening
emails which they ADMITTED to). I see it might be time to make yet ONE
MORE website and put the COS FILES back up there - where all the threats
and libel are right there to see. Or one can just go read Ole Wolf's
"Emperor's New Religion" for a more scholarly type essay on the whole
revolting fiasco. And there were MANY more after that. Of course, if I
threaten them BACK after they did it to me 10 times over - they WHINE
about it.
It is like this: THEY can harass, THEY can libel thru the roof, THEY can
incite offline trouble - but when anyone even hints of doing it back to
them, OH, you never heard the end of it.
Post by catherine yronwode
For the record, i did not state that i thought Tani was Tiffany. I
left it as a sarcastic, humourous question, not answered.
Uh huh. Deeds, Cat. Deeds.
I wrote that
Post by catherine yronwode
the Satanic Reds was listed officially as
---------------------------------------------------------
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
The Satanic Council
Yes, SR was on the Council for a very short while - and then got off it.
As far as I know - when SR got off it, the Council soon no longer existed.
Post by catherine yronwode
[...]
Also at the old version of the site is a list of Satanic
Council affiliates. The affiliate site in Florida (home
state of Tanya Lysenko) [...]
My birth name is Tani Jantsang. Please call me that, because that is WHO
I am. I can cash checks made out to me under my birth name (and most ARE
made out to that). My credit card is Tani Jantsang - and so forth. You
seem to like referring to Anton LaVey by his birth name. Do me the same
kindness, if that's not TOO hard.
Post by catherine yronwode
The Church of Satanic Unity
8944 Marigold Drive
New Port Richey Florida 34654
High Priestess: Tiffany Layden
[...]
And the owner... didja notice that the owner is the Rev.
Tiffany Layden -- "TL" in Florida. Hmmmm.
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, Kori, for doing the research for which i did not have time.
And my apologies for using sarcasm ("Hmmm [...] 'TL' in Florida") when
i could have simply said "The identity of Tiffany Layden is unknown to
me." Sarcasm isn't something i do often or well.
Her freaking address is right on there. Clue, Cat - MOST of these people
that were on the council stay the hell off this cesspool usenet. Right,
you procrastinate well. You have no time to read answers to questions you
asked in detail too well, either. But post to this cesspool and give
people shit to throw at me when they have BEEN doing this to me since
before 9/11 happened is what you DO have time for . Deeds, Cat.
Looks like HrVad answered you about yet another DEED - posting information
about Vad's apodion.com website and a rose image he had on there, and
linking it to a girl I knew in the 60s and early 70s (which I did write to
you about in your email query, the one you didn't have time to read yet
due to procrastination......). DEEDS, Cat.
These morons have accused me of some of the most absurd shit on the
planet - and it all started with Filan and his org instigating it. It has
not let up. Why don't YOU try to figure out why. It's obvious. They do
not want the SR to exist - and to date, in the short time SR has been
around, it has more members in it than the COS ever had in all his
history. FACT. The actual numbers were outed by Karla and Zeena after
the court trial. Aquino, likewise, had access to that info and outed it
or documents it in his book. We have many more - and we've only been
around a very short time without much publicity. We have no hierarchy in
the SR. We do not charge money in the SR.
Now, I know that people in the dedicated left (you say you were this) have
a hard time viewing life outside of conspiracies or whatnot. I do not
view J. Arch Getty as a pro Stalinist OR an anti commie or whatever
because he wrote THE TRUTH with archival back up - in books. But among
the lefties, all kinds of theories abound - and imo they are crazy. I
wrote info on TDL because I FOUND it - and the info is highly referenced
for a change. I wrote info on the poilice orgs because the perpetrated
dogma was that the NKVD was the KGB. NO IT WAS AND IS NOT. It is NOT the
same organization at all. Just as the Sheriff Dept of Lee County, or the
State Police, is NOT the CIA. If you or anyone else has some kind of
"issue" over ME writing info on that AND ALSO having a Satanic org, or a
Catholic org, or a Buddhist org, or whatever religious org you can think
up - well heh, that's too bad. I don't care. To me (and that is the ONLY
person that matters, Cat) IT IS NO BIG DEAL. I'm a registered
republican. I don't party with people in fringe politics, never had a
thing to do with the extreme left save to type and get paid and give them
a headache arguing with them when they ASKED for debate.
The 10 points in the SR are, as I defined in the FAQ, only political ON
THE SURFACE. On the level I mean them, they are also a sign of CHARACTER.
Who on earth would NOT want those things in their society? WHO?
Ben was expelled from the Sr by Brendan due to his tirades AGAINST the
LIVING WAGE. His solution is to "do without." NO - that is NOT an
option. We live in a TECHNO society. The modern tech is supposed to make
life LESS stressful and allow us to work LESS hours and have MORE leisure.
That has not happened. Doing without the things available IN a techno
society - the simplest of pleasures even - is NOT an option. Getting a
LIVING WAGE is a MUST unless more people go homeless. And contrary to
what a clone-drone on here says about "the founders" plural when he has NO
CLUE how the org is run - I knew Ben's views and just debated him on it
because, imo, he just did not understand WHAT a living wage was and kept
bringing up low rents (yeah, in 65 or older only communities, LMAO) .
Bren kicked him out for NOT understanding or agreeing with one of the 10.
That simple. One of the other founders booted out another person and I
didn't even KNOW that happened. I found out later that happened, when the
person TOLD me. I'm a lot more tolerant than the others. Aside from
which, someone posted on a Danish website that ANYONE that is in the COS
that gets involved or joins an organization that is AGAINST the COS -
should consider themselves automatically expelled from the COS. Ben IS in
the COS. He shouldn't have been in the SR in the first place, apparently.
Over the years, no matter how hard we try, linking up with HUGE
organizations to get it - it just starts to seem as if even VOTING doesn't
mean anything anymore. One org tracked an email about faxes. The one
sent to me generated THIRTY THOUSAND FAXES to government, Cat. IN ONE
WEEK. Just ONE email ended up with 30 thousand faxes due to how we do
things. Did all that do any good? Well, sometimes yes. Most of the
time, NO. Down here we DID join up with a BIG group that INCLUDED
fundamentalist Christians in their ranks - and the constant bombardment to
schools of info about monitoring bully beharior and what those kinds of
kids DO to othere kids - SOMETHING GOT DONE - a committee was formed to
see what should be done and they started to CONSIDER this stuff, take it
seriously. SUCCESS. In my state, we had a VOTE about English language
only - and it won hands down. Did we get it? NO. So why vote, Cat? Why
even bother. If what goes on in the prisons is any indication (racialist
groups form and train people IN those jails) - that's just gonna spill out
into the rest of the nation sooner or later due to all this crap. It's
already starting to happen in Europe - where they are realizing that "the
diversity dream" is a nightmare and they want to END it. Diversity is NOT
the same thing as assimilation into the society.
But take a look at it, the MAJORITY want to STOP the illegal immigration
and most of that majority want the ones that are here thrown out. Does
that get done? Majority of TAX PAYERS want this - and their
representatives are NOT representing them at all. When corporations can
BUY the government - that IS FASCISM.
I'm in favor of putting OUR troops on OUR borders and shoot to kill anyone
trying to break and enter into the sovereign nation USA. MANY agree with
that, too. That certainly would discourage more from TRYING to come here.
By law, I have a right to shoot to death anyont that breaks and enters
into MY HOME. The USA is supposed to be the HOME of the citizenry. And
if the law was right - car thieves would be put to death just as horse
thieves were. You can NOT be tolerant toward people that are intolerant
and who walk on tolerant people as if they are doormats. The left never
realized that. The left also blocks out human nature and instinct. If I
HAD to categorize my views into some category - SOCIOBIOLOGY would fit
them the best.
You speak about free will. Well, the free will of most of the people I
hang with offline and click with is definitely NOT like YOUR free will, or
the free will of people who commit a lot of crime. Sooner or later, our
free wills tend to AGREE on just what to DO about it. And it's NOT
pleasant like a slap on the hand. Free will STOPS at my door. Let a
person break and enter into my home of HIS own free will - and he will get
lead in his head. Period. That would also save the taxpayers a lot of
money having to try the criminal and then house him in a hotel called a
jail for many years, whewre he is fed, given a TV and whatever else. Did
you think I was a liberal? I'm liberal on SOME things. But I draw lines.
Every single SR point has the word "CITIZENS" in it. What did you think
that meant? Did you read that with leftist eyes? I happen to BELIEVE
100% that the Big Left was funded by Moscow to DESTROY the USA and trun
everything good upside down on its head. The archives have been opened.
VIOLA! Hoover was RIGHT. Also now, when corporations can guy gov
officials, that is fascism. I say if nationalizing these companies is
what it takes - then DO IT.
The Washington Dispatch
Time Magazine Exposes Illegal Immigration
Commentary by Frosty Wooldridge
September 16, 2004
You haven't been able to see it before this week since no major media
sources reported it. Politicians have run from it faster than Marion Jones
sprinted from her drug testing dates. Chris Cannon, one of America's most
pro-illegal alien congressmen, escape from answering to it better than
Houdini. Senator Teddy Kennedy aids it better than Mexico's President
Vincente 'Mr. Corruption' Fox. The rest of Congress runs from it faster
than cockroaches scamper from the light of day. ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and CNN
scatter from it like quail in autumn's hunting season.
However, all of us to some degree feel it, lose our jobs from it, tolerate
chaos in our schools, suffer from language confusion, stomach growing
diseases, die from it, get raped, robbed, scammed or pay for it every day of
our lives. What is it?
Short answer: It's an illegal alien migration invasion now estimated over 15
million plus inside our country and 4,000 more crossing our borders nightly.
With brilliant reporting by veteran journalists Donald L. Barlett and James
B. Steel, in "WHO LEFT THE DOOR OPEN?" TIME MAGAZINE opened Pandora's box on
the most vexing national crisis since Vietnam. Their report renders a
profound, penetrating and powerful message of a nation-destroying dilemma
not known since the Roman Empire fell from the marauding Vandals.
President Bush refuses to defend against it and Congress, slithered into the
back pockets of corporations who have no loyalty to America or its citizens,
assist it. So much so, senators and congressmen are in violation of their
oaths of office. It's a conspiracy against every citizen and walk of
American life.
"You must show photo ID, remove your shoes, take off your belts, empty your
pockets, get wand waved, answer questions and have your 80 year old
grandmothers patted down.while, each day over 4,000 illegal aliens walk
across the 375 mile border between Mexico and Arizona. No searches for
weapons. No ID checks. No passports. Many obtain phony identification
papers and bogus social security numbers long before they reach America."
So much for Tom Ridge's and Condi Rice's assurance that America is safer
today than before 9/11.
One rancher on the border, Roger Barnett, with his wife and brother, "In the
past five years we have personally stopped and detained 12,000 illegal
aliens crossing our land." In the meantime, they have had to pick up an
estimated eight pounds of trash left by every single illegal alien who drops
their essentials before being picked up. In sum total, annually, illegal
aliens leave over eight million pounds of trash in the desert. It wrecks
havoc on plants and animals alike.
"Night after night, they cut fences intended to hold cattle and horses,"
John Ladd, a rancher said. "Cows that eat the bags must often be killed
because the plastic becomes lodged in their stomachs. The aliens steal
vehicles and saddles. They poison dogs to quiet them."
"All these people say they are coming for the amnesty program. They have
been told if they get 10 miles off the border, they are home free,"
George
Morin, Arizona rancher.
How many illegals will rush into the USA this year? Barlett writes, "The
number of illegals flooding into the U.S. this year will total three
million-enough to fill 22,000 Boeing 737-700 airliners or 60 flights a day
for a year. It is triple the number of immigrants who come to the U.S. by
legal means."
Is America secure? About as secure as a baby chick in the pen with a
rattlesnake! From October of last year to August 25, 2004, 55,890 illegal
aliens OTM's (other than Mexicans) were caught as they crossed the border
from Middle Eastern countries hostile to the USA. That's only the ones they
caught. Border Patrol catches only one in four.
Does anyone think the same nightmare in Beslan, Russia where 300 school kids
suffered violent death at the hands of Muslim killers can't happen here?
Think again.
The distribution system in human smuggling would make United Parcel Service
and Greyhound Bus Lines envious. How much money is spent? FORBES MAGAZINE
tabulated a $7 billion annual business for smuggling illegals from the
Middle East, China, India and South America. Aliens arrive in big busses
which disperse them to vans and SUV's--to be driven to pickup points where
'coyotes' await to bring them across the border in the dead of night.
Those
coyotes along with drug smugglers rape and even kill their clients in the
desert. One coyote makes $5,000.00 per week.
Arizona citizens are frustrated from the Border Patrol's 'catch and release'
program mandated by Congress. Apprehended aliens are given a sack lunch and
driven back to the border. One man interviewed attempted crossing 11 times.
"Corporate America thrives on illegals," Steele reported.
"Corporate managers go so far as to place orders with smugglers for a
specific number of bodies to be delivered," Steele reported. "They employ
illegal aliens at wages so low that few citizens could afford to take the
jobs, but it's great for profits and stockholders.that's why the payrolls of
so many businesses-meat packers, poultry processors, landscape firms,
construction companies, office cleaning firms and corner stores among
others-are jammed with illegals.companies are rarely if ever punished."
However, it is a federal crime punishable up to $10,000 and a prison
sentence for each illegal alien hired. Nonetheless, with Congress in the
back pockets of corporations, Third World Momentum escalates across the U.S.
What is that 'momentum?' It's a virulent form of corruption imbedded deeply
into the system, so much so, the rule of law is thwarted and crime prevails.
It's the standard by which Third World countries operate and it's now
running at full speed in America.
The TIME report exposed a growing crime network. Now operating in 28
cities, MS-13 gangs rob, kill, distribute drugs and run prostitution rings
while being protected by "Special Order 40."
Who is at risk? American citizens! The future viability of the United
States!
Part II: Crime, drug distribution and diseases being imported with illegal
aliens.
TIME MAGAZINE, SEPTEMBER 12, 2004, "WHO LEFT THE DOOR OPEN?"
CNN's Lou Dobbs speaks about this national crisis weekly. O'Reilly dabbles
in it with reluctant flippancy. FOX NEWS ignores it. The New York Times,
Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times and Miami Herald support it. La Raza, a
national Hispanic pro-illegal alien and open-borders organization, licks its
lips at the speed of this invasion. But, finally, TIME MAGAZINE exposed it
with sobering pictures and interviews.
Illegal aliens bring Americans Third World Momentum. That includes crime,
drugs and diseases. Sooner or later, every American community and millions
of Americans will be affected as we allow three million illegal aliens
breaching our borders annually without regard to their health, criminal
background or drug expansion endeavors.
In TIME'S "WHO LEFT THE DOOR OPEN?" September 12, 2004, journalists Barlett
and Steele exposed the ugly side of this invasion.
"The plight of Jim Dickson, a hospital administrator in Bisbee, Arizona
summed it up in one image," Barlett wrote. "It's an ambulance that pulls
into Copper Queen Hospital and discharges illegal aliens injured in an auto
accident. The border patrol officers on orders from Washington refused to
take them onto the property. Instead, the officers call an ambulance for
the injured so the U.S. Government won't be responsible for hospital costs.
Instead, Dickson's hospital gets stiffed."
In 2003, 77 border state hospitals spiraled into bankruptcy. Instead of
putting troops on the borders to stop the invasion, Arizona Senators McCain
and Kyle added a $1.4 billion bailout rider onto a Medicaid bill. Instead
of doing their jobs, they made taxpayers vomit their hard-earned money into
paying for the invasion's consequences. Result? It wasn't enough. Three
Los Angeles area hospitals bankrupted already this year. Dickson's small
hospital lost $1.4 million in the past three years. "The more free care we
give," he said, "the more we have to ration what's left."
Congress mandates hospitals serve illegal aliens but fails to mandate
payment. American citizens lose care and money to the invasion.
"The highest levels of the U.S. and Mexican governments have orchestrated
this situation as a kind of dance," Steele reported. "Mexico sends its poor
north to take jobs illegally and the U.S. arrests enough border crossers to
create the illusion that it is enforcing immigration laws while allowing the
majority to get through."
The crisis spins so far out of control that ranchers see a day of reckoning
fast approaching. Armed American militia forces stand ready to start
shooting. Everyone, including women, pack guns on the border.
Even more chilling than hospitals collapsing concerns an increasing number
of unchecked aliens importing diseases into the USA. In five years, 16,000
cases of multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis breached the Mexican border.
In
three years, 7,000 cases of leprosy (Hansen's Disease) arrived with
immigrants from India, Brazil and the Caribbean. Tens of thousands of cases
of hepatitis A transplanted into America. Another South American disease,
affecting 14 million and killing 50,000 annually, Chagas Disease, a parasite
that attacks the heart and other organs, invades U.S. borders in the bodies
of the unchecked illegal aliens.
The crisis of these diseases won't play itself out for years. One TB
carrying illegal may infect 10 to 50 other persons depending on his/her
circulation in public. If he works in fast food, he may come in contact
with an unlimited number of people. If he has hepatitis A and serves on the
food line cutting onions or tomatoes, all customers stand at risk. If
illegal alien children, now number over 1.1 million in public schools are
infected, they can infect American children. This year, the Center for
Disease Control announced 14, 871 new cases of tuberculosis. It's only the
beginning.
Why Alien Criminals Are At Large in the U.S.
"From October 1, 2003 to July 20, 2004, the border patrol's Tucson sector
stopped 9,051 person crossing illegal who had criminal records in the U.S.,
meaning they committed crimes here, returned to Mexico, then were trying to
re-enter the country," Barlett wrote. "A minimum of 378 had active warrants
for their arrest."
Most go undetected.
"The numbers suggest that tens of thousands of criminals, quite possibly
hundreds of thousands, treat the border as a revolving door to crimes of
opportunity," Steele wrote. "The situation is so out of control that 400,000
illegal aliens who have been ordered deported, 80,000 have criminal records,
but Homeland Security does not have a clue as to the whereabouts of any of
them, including those from countries that support terrorism."
Of 114 Iranians with final orders for removal, only 11 could be found and
deported. Of 67 Sudanese with final removal orders, only one was deported.
Of 46 Iraqis, only four were deported. The rest are free to move about the
country.
Not mentioned in the report was the 20,000 member "18th Street Gang" made up
of 60% illegal aliens in Los Angeles. It distributes drugs from Mexico,
commits robberies daily, extorts businesses and engages in drive-by
shootings. Along with them, the 8,000 member MS 13 Central American gangs
operate in 28 cities. If anyone wonders why drugs are SO available to our
kids, thank our Congress for not fulfilling its oath of office. Even more
sobering, these alien criminals are protected in hundreds of cities across
the United States by "Special Order 40" that allows them to remain in
country without fear of arrest or deportation.
"Both parties and their candidates pay lip service to controlling the
borders," Barlett wrote. "In the 99/11 commission's final report, the panel
took note of the immigration breakdown saying, "'Two systemic weaknesses
came together in our border system's inability to contribute to an effective
defense against 9/11 attacks: a lack of well developed counterterrorism
measures as a part of border security and an immigration system not able to
deliver on its basic commitments, much less support counterterrorism.'"
The TIME report rendered severe implications toward President Bush and
members of Congress on both sides of the corridor. Citizens of the United
States were not being served before 9/11 and today, they are JUST as
vulnerable as 4,000 illegal aliens cross our borders daily. You have to
wonder when Beslan, Russia's tragedy will visit an American school in the
near future?
Frosty Wooldridge is a teacher and author who has bicycled 100,000 miles on
six continents to see overpopulation up close and ugly. His explosive book
published August 13, 2004: 'IMMIGRATION'S UNARMED INVASION-DEADLY
CONSEQUENCES.' Copies may be obtained at: 1-888-280-7715 at
www.authorhouse.com.
Post by catherine yronwode
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Correspondence Course ----- http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocourse.html
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-08 11:04:26 UTC
Permalink
50041208 viii om Hail Satan!


"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# This was emailed to select people by Gilmore before I was even online.
# Note what he is ASKING people to do. Well, pretty much, his members are no
# longer doing it, but his FANS ARE still doing it, right here and right now.
# A gang of them. Read this. This is from Peter Gilmore regarding the
# "enemies of the COS."

brings back memories of 'The Enemies of Our Enemies' of Neo-Pagan origins.

PG| To: <***@ix.netcom.com>
PG| Subject: Attack/Counter-Attack?
PG| Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:51:52 +0200
PG| X-Envelope-To: <***@dnai.com>

["PG|" attestedly by Peter H. Gilmore, HP of the CoS, privately]

PG| To our gang of regular alt.satanism posters:
PG| I've noted a disappointing trend of late, and was curious as to why it
PG| has arisen. Aside from the usual attacks on our organization/philosophy,
PG| our detractors seem to delight in ad hominem attacks on the acknowledged
PG| leaders of the Church of Satan.
PG|
PG| This is nothing new, but they have been increasing in frequency. Anton
PG| LaVey naturally gets the bulk of them (as founder and long-term leader),
PG| but we have seen a spate of attacks on our High Priestess Blanche Barton,
PG| Online Representative (and frequent defender of our supportive members
PG| when they are attacked) Magistra Peggy Nadramia, Magister Boyd Rice, and
PG| also myself.

excuses omitted. Hp Gilmore should have come here directly to deal with it,
but was too cowardly to do so no doubt. he would rather be fed information
from moles, dredging the "useless" "shabby" droppings of fetid enemies and
slurp this up for food before issuing marching orders to shock troops??!

what's really sad is that any of it matters, that the Apple Computer issue was
a knuckle-under, and such extreme attention is paid to the forum. and yet it
is one of the only well-known public arenas wherein Satanists of an unknown
combination can be located, interviewed, and who spar without restraint.

PG| ... when these comments go without response, it looks like there is
PG| some kind of tacit approval by all of you, who are clearly seen as voices
PG| and thus representatives of the Church of Satan (and several on the list
PG| of folk getting this are in the Priesthood, and a number of others may
PG| yet achieve official public spokesperson status).

rather than a concern that certain people will be taken for authorities,
the issue is a lack of representation even at the scum-bottom of pond. yeah.

PG| haven't found enough info on these creeps to do a fair-play turnabout,
PG| I'm certain that you have enough information on the individuals being
PG| attacked to simply point out their many achievements as a counter....

the 'attacks' which are being described seem primarily posting-verbal here.

whoa, hold on, this reminds me of a book....
PG| ...their command-to-look powers....

this seems primarily aimed at Satanic Witches (LaVeyan). is there a
LaVeyan mythos about Command-To-Look Powers for women and something
else for men? where do the superpower games begin and end?
vampires? or is that just the ToS?

PG| ...[point] out the nature of these blatherings and what it
PG| demonstrates about those who post them.

verbal.

PG| As Satanists, we must take the bull by the balls and shatter all who oppose
PG| us. That is, if you really do respect those who are being attacked.
PG|
PG| You are all our shock troops, our special forces, our Waffen SS, and we'd
PG| like to see you perhaps interact with one another and coordinate your
PG| attacks on those who dare to try to besmirch our organization, and
PG| those of us who I think have earned your respect as your leaders....

PG| So, here's to swatting the flies (it may not take that much effort) so
PG| that we can continue with all of the real business of moving the world in
PG| our chosen directions.

[Gilmore ends, apparently.]

what does Hp Gilmore envision this to include? how successful has the
effort been to date?

Tani?:
# THIS EMAIL WAS MAILED AS BCC TO GILMORE'S LOYAL STORM TROOPERS. IT IS NOT
# ASKING PEOPLE TO TEASE ANYONE ONLINE. IT IS ASKING THEM TO BE LIKE THE
# WAFFEN SS, IN OTHER WORDS, AN EXTERMINATION SQUAD.

the attacks described are verbal, in writing, the metaphor in poor taste.

# Being his Einsatzgruppen is not exacly like "flaming people." Other
# websites of their members were online threatening openly to do TERRORIST
# activities against THE SR AND THE MEMBERS OF IT!! YES. Jason Winters of
# the COS put that up. This was ALL documented on the COS Files.

yes, usenet is awash in threats, few of which seem carried out.

# ...They outed my neighbors addresses ....

but you still email them when people talk about them to you?

# ...Filan of the COS did that. These people do some serious research
# in order to try to really HARM people who don't like that org....

I've seen some very revealing posts to usenet, some mean yes.

thanks for the information on Satanism's appearance in association
with fascist politics. :>

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-08 20:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi, see in.
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041208 viii om Hail Satan!
# This was emailed to select people by Gilmore before I was even online.
# Note what he is ASKING people to do. Well, pretty much, his members are no
# longer doing it, but his FANS ARE still doing it, right here and right now.
# A gang of them. Read this. This is from Peter Gilmore regarding the
# "enemies of the COS."
brings back memories of 'The Enemies of Our Enemies' of Neo-Pagan origins.
The language he uses is pretty strong in there.
Post by SOD of the CoE
PG| Subject: Attack/Counter-Attack?
PG| Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:51:52 +0200
["PG|" attestedly by Peter H. Gilmore, HP of the CoS, privately]
Yes, this is the copy Ole got - and it definitely from Gilmore. And it was
sent bcc. Ygraine also got on here after the email was outed and said she
also got this and was HAPPY to get it - and made a big excuse for Gilmore.
Post by SOD of the CoE
PG| I've noted a disappointing trend of late, and was curious as to why it
PG| has arisen. Aside from the usual attacks on our
organization/philosophy,
PG| our detractors seem to delight in ad hominem attacks on the acknowledged
PG| leaders of the Church of Satan.
PG|
PG| This is nothing new, but they have been increasing in frequency. Anton
PG| LaVey naturally gets the bulk of them (as founder and long-term leader),
PG| but we have seen a spate of attacks on our High Priestess Blanche Barton,
PG| Online Representative (and frequent defender of our supportive members
PG| when they are attacked) Magistra Peggy Nadramia, Magister Boyd Rice, and
PG| also myself.
excuses omitted. Hp Gilmore should have come here directly to deal with it,
but was too cowardly to do so no doubt. he would rather be fed information
from moles, dredging the "useless" "shabby" droppings of fetid enemies and
slurp this up for food before issuing marching orders to shock troops??!
Yup. Evidence that he's also ask someone to post things FOR him was also up
there - I can try to find that too. IN fact, I can mail you the entire
package if you want, it's a zip file and it's BIG - can you handle BIG
emails? Or will your service bounce them?
Post by SOD of the CoE
what's really sad is that any of it matters, that the Apple Computer issue was
a knuckle-under,
Uh, his shock troops blamed ME for that Apple mess - then it came out that
Pan Pipes in california did it to them. They have made many real enemies
down the road. Someone outed his Godzilla posts too, where you can see his
email on them - and I got the blame for that too. Nope, I didn't do it.
They seem to think I'm the leader in some kind of army against them. In
actuality, I don't give a shit about them, and the stuff on "Bad Stuff" menu
wasn't even there until they went too far with their harassment.

and such extreme attention is paid to the forum. and yet it
Post by SOD of the CoE
is one of the only well-known public arenas wherein Satanists of an unknown
combination can be located, interviewed, and who spar without restraint.
You are living in the past - and so was I when I got online. Serious
satanists, and I mean SERIOUS satanists, do NOT post here, Tyagi - and they
have for years adviced me to STOP. They utilize message boards or egroups
that are MODERATED - or they are offline and only communite online very
rarely. Most of the "heavies" in the SR only get online to drop a note on
some working, or some information they picked up - such as Comrade August
who wrote those articles on pythagoreanism and on solomon. But this group
is probably the last place for serious conversation anymore. Satanists that
do serious stuff who choose to go onine, make their own websites and their
own groups for communication. Heavy articles that arose from egroup
correspondence on workings or research are finally put up on our own
website - not put on here at all. So if you want to know what they are up
to - that is where you'll have to look - on their own ORG websites, or own
PRIVATE websites. Jenn, for instance, is listed on the SR orgs - she has
put her stuff up - but I doubt anyone even knows about it except the people
in the SR egroup. Consider that 1/6 of our membership now, is on the
egroup. The rest are not. Brendan said it - usenet is the past. Message
boards and egroups are the present. He's right. Even the heavy convos
regarding human genome are NOT to be found on usenet. Some guy "Dettiker?"
has a private egroup - and it is probably moderated. That's the way people
are going now. I mention him because that's a SCIENCE group - and even they
are NOT using usenet for such talk anymore.
Post by SOD of the CoE
PG| ... when these comments go without response, it looks like there is
PG| some kind of tacit approval by all of you, who are clearly seen as voices
PG| and thus representatives of the Church of Satan (and several on the list
PG| of folk getting this are in the Priesthood, and a number of others may
PG| yet achieve official public spokesperson status).
rather than a concern that certain people will be taken for authorities,
the issue is a lack of representation even at the scum-bottom of pond. yeah.
PG| haven't found enough info on these creeps to do a fair-play turnabout,
PG| I'm certain that you have enough information on the individuals being
PG| attacked to simply point out their many achievements as a counter....
the 'attacks' which are being described seem primarily posting-verbal here.
Yes, calling Peggy and Blanche "fat."
Post by SOD of the CoE
whoa, hold on, this reminds me of a book....
PG| ...their command-to-look powers....
this seems primarily aimed at Satanic Witches (LaVeyan). is there a
LaVeyan mythos about Command-To-Look Powers for women and something
else for men? where do the superpower games begin and end?
vampires? or is that just the ToS?
I don't understand what you mean or what you are asking.
Post by SOD of the CoE
PG| ...[point] out the nature of these blatherings and what it
PG| demonstrates about those who post them.
verbal.
PG| As Satanists, we must take the bull by the balls and shatter all who oppose
PG| us. That is, if you really do respect those who are being attacked.
In other words on that one, if you do NOT go attack their enemies, then you,
by inference, do not respect the COS hierarchs!
Post by SOD of the CoE
PG|
PG| You are all our shock troops, our special forces, our Waffen SS, and we'd
PG| like to see you perhaps interact with one another and coordinate your
PG| attacks on those who dare to try to besmirch our organization, and
PG| those of us who I think have earned your respect as your leaders....
PG| So, here's to swatting the flies (it may not take that much effort) so
PG| that we can continue with all of the real business of moving the world in
PG| our chosen directions.
[Gilmore ends, apparently.]
what does Hp Gilmore envision this to include? how successful has the
effort been to date?
Heh - after the COS / FCOS wars, the FCOS seems to be gone from here, and
the COS is gone from here. LMAO. What's left are COS "friendlies" attacking
ME. They can't make a dent in me OR in the SR - they have yet to realize
that. Gilmore's #1 strong arm, Andre Schlesinger at the time, went so far
as to post xx-rated photos of Egan and his ADULT lover Jim on here - they
didn't even block out the x-rated graphics - considering that kids can get
on here and go to those urls. They repeatedly did this to Egan - and tried
to lie and say that the lover was a minor. Jim Taylor is a GROWN MAN in his
30s. He is also a fine person, a good person. He and Egan did do these
superb movies "Go to Hell" on public tv. The COS blocked Egan's appearance
on MSNBC by libeling him as a pedophile - meanwhile the COS people that DID
get on that MSNBC show were none other than the Gidneys - keep in mind that
William Gidney must have been DOING the crimes he was later caught doing and
beating his wife - at the time of that show. Irony.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# THIS EMAIL WAS MAILED AS BCC TO GILMORE'S LOYAL STORM TROOPERS. IT IS NOT
# ASKING PEOPLE TO TEASE ANYONE ONLINE. IT IS ASKING THEM TO BE LIKE THE
# WAFFEN SS, IN OTHER WORDS, AN EXTERMINATION SQUAD.
No, I don't know who wrote that explanatory thing - it's from the COS Files.
I just copy pasted it all for you to see, since you apparently don't know
this was going on. It is primarily this that really did get MOST other
satanists off here.
Post by SOD of the CoE
the attacks described are verbal, in writing, the metaphor in poor taste.
TANI (I wrote this to you)
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Being his Einsatzgruppen is not exacly like "flaming people." Other
# websites of their members were online threatening openly to do TERRORIST
# activities against THE SR AND THE MEMBERS OF IT!! YES. Jason Winters of
# the COS put that up. This was ALL documented on the COS Files.
yes, usenet is awash in threats, few of which seem carried out.
You mean, that you hear about!
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...They outed my neighbors addresses ....
but you still email them when people talk about them to you?
I don't know what you mean.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...Filan of the COS did that. These people do some serious research
# in order to try to really HARM people who don't like that org....
I've seen some very revealing posts to usenet, some mean yes.
thanks for the information on Satanism's appearance in association
with fascist politics. :>
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-10 02:56:24 UTC
Permalink
50041209 viii om Hail Satan!

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
#># This was emailed to select people by Gilmore before I was even online.
#># Note what he is ASKING people to do. Well, pretty much, his members are no
#># longer doing it, but his FANS ARE still doing it, right here and right now.
#># A gang of them. Read this. This is from Peter Gilmore regarding the
#># "enemies of the COS."

bobo:
#> brings back memories of 'The Enemies of Our Enemies' of Neo-Pagan origins.

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# The language he uses is pretty strong in there.

very strong, depending on its proximity to neo-nazi infiltrations
into the CoS membership. it may be in part an attempt to make light
of them in the wake or preparation to expel from membership, or
even (I can hear the defense) to draw in closer those who had such
inclinations in order to identify them for future disenfranchisement.

as I'm sure you're aware, this is apparently one of the methods used
by government organizations to head off potentially problematic
social developments -- pretend to be extremists who may be interested
in violent activities, or infiltrate counter-cultural groups and
begin fomenting violence so as to draw those who have such an
interest into that type of activity. this is defended by government
agencies like the FBI as 'heading off potential trouble' and it is
criticized by counter-cultural activists as 'search and destroy of
political orgs that don't like, work with, or conform to their
(government) standards' (espionage).

#> ["PG|" attestedly by Peter H. Gilmore, HP of the CoS, privately]
#
# Yes, this is the copy Ole got - and it definitely from Gilmore.
# And it was sent bcc....

thanks for identifying its origination so clearly.

#> excuses omitted. Hp Gilmore should have come here directly to deal with it,
#> but was too cowardly to do so no doubt. he would rather be fed information
#> from moles, dredging the "useless" "shabby" droppings of fetid enemies and
#> slurp this up for food before issuing marching orders to shock troops??!
#
# Yup. Evidence that he's also ask someone to post things FOR him was also
# up there - I can try to find that too....

not too surprising. heads of orders or churches sometimes delegate for
purpose of expediency. thanks for "The CoS Files", btw, unzipped and
ready for my reading.

#> what's really sad is that any of it matters, that the Apple Computer
#> issue was a knuckle-under,
#
# Uh, his shock troops blamed ME for that Apple mess - then it came
# out that Pan Pipes in california did it to them....

did what to them?

# ...Someone outed his Godzilla posts too, where you can see his
# email on them - and I got the blame for that too. Nope, I
# didn't do it....

all this is shorthand and doesn't mean much to me. "his Godzilla
posts" "where you can see his email on them" means what, exactly?

#> and such extreme attention is paid to the forum. and yet it
#> is one of the only well-known public arenas wherein Satanists
#> of an unknown combination can be located, interviewed, and
#> who spar without restraint.
#
# You are living in the past....

I don't think so. :> I think I'm realistic and looking at the
present, but not expecting too much or a return to previous
conditions -- one which you seem to prefer or desire.

# Serious satanists, and I mean SERIOUS satanists, do NOT post
# here....

I'm serious. I also detect your seriousness. that the frequency
of posting by serious Satanists may have dropped is not at all
surprising. this is an effect of the "widening" of available
forums and "broadening" of private forums' into which those
who seek moderation (often intellectuals/academics) have fled.

# - and they have for years adviced me to STOP.

who are these "serious Satanists" to which you refer? org-ies?
that they have so advised you may in part be due to the fact
that you continue have problems with harrying nigglers that
distract you and which are a commonplace in unmoderated usenet
forums. these may be handily dealt with through the effective
use of reader technology (killfiles) and a certain amount of
self-restraint as supplement (utilizing the Dark Force, Tani),
as this cultural information is slowly becoming widespread.

# They utilize message boards or egroups that are MODERATED....

referred to above. this is not just an issue with Satanists,
but has affected the entirety of the internet. what you are
saying in no way detracts from my primary point about PUBLIC
forums. this and other unmoderated usenet newsgroups are some
of the only ungated, unmoderated public arenas Satanists may
gather in which we may joust. some of us still do.

# ...this group is probably the last place for serious
# conversation anymore....

public conversation occurs in few other arenas, as I mentioned.
IRC is the only other forum-center, but these have primarily
shifted to moderated networks also (e.g. undernet), or have
effectively, through the use of bots (programs) curtailed noise.

your points that Satanists do not generally frequent public
forums is not surprising at all, given their probable interest
in avoiding negative attention. those who are immune to it, or
sufficiently informed and disciplined enough to continue such
public discourse will of course do so. the level of content we
may include is only limited to our interests and backgrounds,
and the spectrum of participants is liable to be very broad.

# ...if you want to know what they are up to - that is where
# you'll have to look - on their own ORG websites, or own
# PRIVATE websites.

web-surfing and exploring private forums are certainly one
very good way of examining this type of information, yes.
I don't find that this is the only method, however, and you
have even proved yourself incorrect as regards such serious
Satanists (or Sat-Tanists :>) as YOU involve yourself here.

my experience with public forums is that they are largely
driven, and their tones set, by their most powerful speakers
who are capable of ignoring or filtering out the noise with
which they may need to contend. if that becomes me, that is
quite fine, as my enduring presence will establish a kind
of 'oasis' quality as the information about filter tech is
spread and idiots attempting to disrupt are left in the dust.
I've tried to make this exact point with you in the past,
but I don't see you are really understanding me as yet.

# ...Brendan said it - usenet is the past. Message boards
# and egroups are the present. He's right....

sri catyananda substantially agrees with this perspective,
in that she compares usenet with *CB radios* and that they
were for a time a _FAD_ which has now passed. these types
of arguments are not, to me, relevant insofar as there are
not, actually, *public* forums that have replaced usenet.
the technology for private moderated forums simply became
more accessible, and intellectuals have temporarily fled
(with good reason).

#> whoa, hold on, this reminds me of a book....
#>
#> PG| ...their command-to-look powers....
#>
#> this seems primarily aimed at Satanic Witches (LaVeyan). is there a
#> LaVeyan mythos about Command-To-Look Powers for women and something
#> else for men? where do the superpower games begin and end?
#> vampires? or is that just the ToS?
#
# I don't understand what you mean or what you are asking.

too bad. there is obvious reference to "witch powers" here.
it seems that these may be associated with women but need
not be so. I wondered if there were ascribed powers or
skills associated with men and with women. I observed that
goth-oriented vamp-apparance and dramatics were to be found
within the ToS at points, and it sounds like you may be
unfamiliar with this (I can't be sure). I recall clearly
that 'command-to-look' was a function of Compleat Witch/
Satanic Witch, and may be comparable to some kind of an
employment of what you call 'The Dark Force'.

#> PG| You are all our shock troops, our special forces, our Waffen SS, and
#> PG| we'd like to see you perhaps interact with one another and coordinate
#> PG| your attacks on those who dare to try to besmirch our organization, and
#> PG| those of us who I think have earned your respect as your leaders....
#>
#> PG| So, here's to swatting the flies (it may not take that much effort) so
#> PG| that we can continue with all of the real business of moving the world
#> in our chosen directions.
#>
#> [Gilmore ends, apparently.]
#>
#> what does Hp Gilmore envision this to include? how successful has the
#> effort been to date?
#
# Heh - after the COS / FCOS wars, the FCOS seems to be gone from here,
# and the COS is gone from here. LMAO. What's left are COS "friendlies"
# attacking ME....

described above, a phenomenon of flight to moderated forums where
a sharing amongst equals (rather than a jousting amongst those
of uncertain status) would be possible. the wars probably were
only one of many stimuli that helped to drive people away from
alt.satanism, leftovers and the odd pioneers remaining as clean-up.

<previous CoS/FCoS dramas snipped -- ::yawn:: yeah, I barely recall>

# ...the COS people that DID get on that MSNBC show were none other
# than the Gidneys - keep in mind that William Gidney must have been
# DOING the crimes he was later caught doing and beating his wife -
# at the time of that show. Irony.

quite ironic. it compares well with the Roman Catholic Church.


Tani
#># Being his Einsatzgruppen is not exacly like "flaming people." Other
#># websites of their members were online threatening openly to do TERRORIST
#># activities against THE SR AND THE MEMBERS OF IT!! YES. Jason Winters of
#># the COS put that up. This was ALL documented on the COS Files.
#>
#> yes, usenet is awash in threats, few of which seem carried out.
#
# You mean, that you hear about!

no, I mean few of the many threats seem to be carried out.
I note an alarm from you on this matter, but slander and
libel are just one of the many fallouts of novel public
forums that will have to be tried and legally-boundaried.

Tani about the CoS?:
#># ...They outed my neighbors addresses ....
#>
#> but you still email them when people talk about them to you?
#
# I don't know what you mean.

i.e. even though they did this to your neighbors, you still find
it valuable to email conversations people have with you about
the CoS to the CoS HP and HPs?

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-10 06:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041209 viii om Hail Satan!
#># This was emailed to select people by Gilmore before I was even online.
#># Note what he is ASKING people to do. Well, pretty much, his members are no
#># longer doing it, but his FANS ARE still doing it, right here and right now.
#># A gang of them. Read this. This is from Peter Gilmore regarding the
#># "enemies of the COS."
#> brings back memories of 'The Enemies of Our Enemies' of Neo-Pagan origins.
# The language he uses is pretty strong in there.
very strong, depending on its proximity to neo-nazi infiltrations
into the CoS membership. it may be in part an attempt to make light
of them in the wake or preparation to expel from membership, or
even (I can hear the defense) to draw in closer those who had such
inclinations in order to identify them for future disenfranchisement.
Nice theory after the fact, but it was after Jeff did what he did that I
took note of ahem, CHANGES. The intimidating letter warning Tim off his
anti fascist project came from the council of nine. On "Is Fascism
Satanic" is Peggy Nadrmia - an official article by her that was once up on a
website - warning off the anti fascists and saying what she had to say - go
read it. Nice theory, but nope. Doesn't hold water. Trust me, it's
nothing lil ol ME did or said that backed them off that fascist kick. It's
what Jeff did. Of that I am absolutely convinced.
Post by SOD of the CoE
as I'm sure you're aware, this is apparently one of the methods used
by government organizations to head off potentially problematic
social developments -- pretend to be extremists who may be interested
in violent activities, or infiltrate counter-cultural groups and
begin fomenting violence so as to draw those who have such an
interest into that type of activity. this is defended by government
agencies like the FBI as 'heading off potential trouble' and it is
criticized by counter-cultural activists as 'search and destroy of
political orgs that don't like, work with, or conform to their
(government) standards' (espionage).
Tyagi, had the council of two been up to that, they'd have openly told me
that over the phone - because they told me heh, everything else! And then
there is more - I'd have known about it, OK?
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> ["PG|" attestedly by Peter H. Gilmore, HP of the CoS, privately]
#
# Yes, this is the copy Ole got - and it definitely from Gilmore.
# And it was sent bcc....
thanks for identifying its origination so clearly.
It's in the full headers to see. This, and Ole's reply is in the files I
mailed you.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> excuses omitted. Hp Gilmore should have come here directly to deal with it,
#> but was too cowardly to do so no doubt. he would rather be fed information
#> from moles, dredging the "useless" "shabby" droppings of fetid enemies and
#> slurp this up for food before issuing marching orders to shock troops??!
#
# Yup. Evidence that he's also ask someone to post things FOR him was also
# up there - I can try to find that too....
not too surprising. heads of orders or churches sometimes delegate for
purpose of expediency. thanks for "The CoS Files", btw, unzipped and
ready for my reading.
It's a LOT of stuff.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> what's really sad is that any of it matters, that the Apple Computer
#> issue was a knuckle-under,
#
# Uh, his shock troops blamed ME for that Apple mess - then it came
# out that Pan Pipes in california did it to them....
did what to them?
Told Apple computer that they were using something - and Apple Computer got
all over them for it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...Someone outed his Godzilla posts too, where you can see his
# email on them - and I got the blame for that too. Nope, I
# didn't do it....
all this is shorthand and doesn't mean much to me. "his Godzilla
posts" "where you can see his email on them" means what, exactly?
They show that the email on the ss email, IS Gilmore's. You seemed to be
questioning the authenticity of the email. It's authentic.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> and such extreme attention is paid to the forum. and yet it
#> is one of the only well-known public arenas wherein Satanists
#> of an unknown combination can be located, interviewed, and
#> who spar without restraint.
#
# You are living in the past....
I don't think so. :> I think I'm realistic and looking at the
present, but not expecting too much or a return to previous
conditions -- one which you seem to prefer or desire.
I mean you are living in the past regarding the importance of usenet.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Serious satanists, and I mean SERIOUS satanists, do NOT post
# here....
I'm serious. I also detect your seriousness. that the frequency
of posting by serious Satanists may have dropped is not at all
surprising. this is an effect of the "widening" of available
forums and "broadening" of private forums' into which those
who seek moderation (often intellectuals/academics) have fled.
ALL the satanists too - 99% of them. On egroups.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# - and they have for years adviced me to STOP.
who are these "serious Satanists" to which you refer? org-ies?
Some in orgs, most independents that like DDocs stuff and can't stand this
freaking place where people all too well known to them gang up and try to
flame me. They libel the shit out of people on here, LMAO.
Post by SOD of the CoE
that they have so advised you may in part be due to the fact
that you continue have problems with harrying nigglers that
distract you and which are a commonplace in unmoderated usenet
forums.
YES. It's a waste of time, for the most part.

these may be handily dealt with through the effective
Post by SOD of the CoE
use of reader technology (killfiles) and a certain amount of
self-restraint as supplement (utilizing the Dark Force, Tani),
as this cultural information is slowly becoming widespread.
You are correct.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# They utilize message boards or egroups that are MODERATED....
referred to above. this is not just an issue with Satanists,
but has affected the entirety of the internet. what you are
saying in no way detracts from my primary point about PUBLIC
forums. this and other unmoderated usenet newsgroups are some
of the only ungated, unmoderated public arenas Satanists may
gather in which we may joust. some of us still do.
PUBLIC forums for most of them now are their own websites.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...this group is probably the last place for serious
# conversation anymore....
public conversation occurs in few other arenas, as I mentioned.
IRC is the only other forum-center, but these have primarily
shifted to moderated networks also (e.g. undernet), or have
effectively, through the use of bots (programs) curtailed noise.
your points that Satanists do not generally frequent public
forums is not surprising at all, given their probable interest
in avoiding negative attention. those who are immune to it, or
sufficiently informed and disciplined enough to continue such
public discourse will of course do so. the level of content we
may include is only limited to our interests and backgrounds,
and the spectrum of participants is liable to be very broad.
# ...if you want to know what they are up to - that is where
# you'll have to look - on their own ORG websites, or own
# PRIVATE websites.
web-surfing and exploring private forums are certainly one
very good way of examining this type of information, yes.
I don't find that this is the only method, however, and you
have even proved yourself incorrect as regards such serious
Satanists (or Sat-Tanists :>) as YOU involve yourself here.
I disagree, you could easily get a much fuller and thought out/explained
explanation for most of your questions ON the SR website itself - and note I
often just refer you to a LINK anyway.
Post by SOD of the CoE
my experience with public forums is that they are largely
driven, and their tones set, by their most powerful speakers
who are capable of ignoring or filtering out the noise with
which they may need to contend. if that becomes me, that is
quite fine, as my enduring presence will establish a kind
of 'oasis' quality as the information about filter tech is
spread and idiots attempting to disrupt are left in the dust.
I've tried to make this exact point with you in the past,
but I don't see you are really understanding me as yet.
I understand you.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...Brendan said it - usenet is the past. Message boards
# and egroups are the present. He's right....
sri catyananda substantially agrees with this perspective,
in that she compares usenet with *CB radios* and that they
were for a time a _FAD_ which has now passed. these types
of arguments are not, to me, relevant insofar as there are
not, actually, *public* forums that have replaced usenet.
the technology for private moderated forums simply became
more accessible, and intellectuals have temporarily fled
(with good reason).
#> whoa, hold on, this reminds me of a book....
#>
#> PG| ...their command-to-look powers....
#>
#> this seems primarily aimed at Satanic Witches (LaVeyan). is there a
#> LaVeyan mythos about Command-To-Look Powers for women and something
#> else for men? where do the superpower games begin and end?
#> vampires? or is that just the ToS?
#
# I don't understand what you mean or what you are asking.
too bad. there is obvious reference to "witch powers" here.
it seems that these may be associated with women but need
not be so. I wondered if there were ascribed powers or
skills associated with men and with women. I observed that
goth-oriented vamp-apparance and dramatics were to be found
within the ToS at points, and it sounds like you may be
unfamiliar with this (I can't be sure). I recall clearly
that 'command-to-look' was a function of Compleat Witch/
Satanic Witch, and may be comparable to some kind of an
employment of what you call 'The Dark Force'.
No, not at all. The command to look involved dressing a certain way,
appying make up a certain way (red lipstick, that kind of thing) and being
pretty and kind of what what most people might call a "cock tease" back in
my day. There is nothing dark force about it. My mother could have given
LaVey a few tips on how to manipulate men around her finger. Basically,
boiled down, Lavey was into the gangster looking men and whore looking
women. That's not witchcraft. They often called it BITCHcraft in the COS.
LMAO. I don't even call that magic. It's common sense.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> PG| You are all our shock troops, our special forces, our Waffen SS, and
#> PG| we'd like to see you perhaps interact with one another and coordinate
#> PG| your attacks on those who dare to try to besmirch our organization, and
#> PG| those of us who I think have earned your respect as your leaders....
#>
#> PG| So, here's to swatting the flies (it may not take that much effort) so
#> PG| that we can continue with all of the real business of moving the world
#> in our chosen directions.
#>
#> [Gilmore ends, apparently.]
#>
#> what does Hp Gilmore envision this to include? how successful has the
#> effort been to date?
#
# Heh - after the COS / FCOS wars, the FCOS seems to be gone from here,
# and the COS is gone from here. LMAO. What's left are COS "friendlies"
# attacking ME....
described above, a phenomenon of flight to moderated forums where
a sharing amongst equals (rather than a jousting amongst those
of uncertain status) would be possible. the wars probably were
only one of many stimuli that helped to drive people away from
alt.satanism, leftovers and the odd pioneers remaining as clean-up.
<previous CoS/FCoS dramas snipped -- ::yawn:: yeah, I barely recall>
# ...the COS people that DID get on that MSNBC show were none other
# than the Gidneys - keep in mind that William Gidney must have been
# DOING the crimes he was later caught doing and beating his wife -
# at the time of that show. Irony.
quite ironic. it compares well with the Roman Catholic Church.
Tani
#># Being his Einsatzgruppen is not exacly like "flaming people." Other
#># websites of their members were online threatening openly to do TERRORIST
#># activities against THE SR AND THE MEMBERS OF IT!! YES. Jason Winters of
#># the COS put that up. This was ALL documented on the COS Files.
#>
#> yes, usenet is awash in threats, few of which seem carried out.
#
# You mean, that you hear about!
no, I mean few of the many threats seem to be carried out.
Uh, that you know of! The biggest problem anyone had gathering information
from those threatned, is that they destroyed the evidence in FEAR! Even one
of the COS members helping me, at one point was afraid (and admitted it)
that some big mag was gonna come knocking at their door --- and do what?
Some of these people thought I had the MAGICAL power to wave my hand and
make things right. I mean that. They THOUGHT that. I'm not gonna say I
didn't play them for what they believed, either. I DID. No one had the
real world power to make things right - except the people Jeff brought the
material to - and they ASKED for it, Tyagi. They had the power. There's
nothing magical about it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
I note an alarm from you on this matter, but slander and
libel are just one of the many fallouts of novel public
forums that will have to be tried and legally-boundaried.
#># ...They outed my neighbors addresses ....
#>
#> but you still email them when people talk about them to you?
#
# I don't know what you mean.
i.e. even though they did this to your neighbors, you still find
it valuable to email conversations people have with you about
the CoS to the CoS HP and HPs?
I don't catch you. My neighbors had nothing to do with any of this, or this
forum, or any convo about any kind of satanism. It depends on what a person
is saying. I email the other founders of SR org. Ask me a question about
Aqino - I even told you "cc to aquino."
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-14 23:11:24 UTC
Permalink
50041214 viii om Hail Satan!

Tani:
#>#># Being his Einsatzgruppen is not exacly like "flaming people." Other
#>#># websites of their members were online threatening openly to do TERRORIST
#>#># activities against THE SR AND THE MEMBERS OF IT!! YES. Jason Winters of
#>#># the COS put that up. This was ALL documented on the COS Files.

bobo:
#>#> yes, usenet is awash in threats, few of which seem carried out.

Tani:
#># You mean, that you hear about!

that is the primary method we might use to evaluate it, yes. if you
hear about these which *are* carried out, please present them. thanks.

bobo:
#> no, I mean few of the many threats seem to be carried out.

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# Uh, that you know of! The biggest problem anyone had gathering
# information from those threatned, is that they destroyed the
# evidence in FEAR! Even one of the COS members helping me, at
# one point was afraid (and admitted it) that some big mag was
# gonna come knocking at their door --- and do what?

dunno, but people can get afraid of all kinds of noise.
if you hear about offline bullying, assaults, and whatever
like the Gidneys, especially on the part of the CoS' Co9,
then please point this out. it seems mostly an online
verbal phenomenon at this point, and your contentions
that it is more aren't supported within your CoS Files.

the problem with presuming up-front that the online world
and its slanders and threats are a direct reflection of the
offline world is that it tends to result in paranoia and a
similar mentality to the SRA delusionists. enemies abound!
they're going to do X, Y, and Z! but we never hear about
how these X/Y/Z things happen beyond threats in usenet.

I suggest to you that the cyberspace ephemera which you
seem to regard with such concern is mostly words, and
pretending that they are more than this without proof
of some kind is alarmist at least, disingenuous and
gullible, or intentional deception, at worst.

bobo:
#> I note an alarm from you on this matter, but slander and
#> libel are just one of the many fallouts of novel public
#> forums that will have to be tried and legally-boundaried.

Tani about the CoS?:
#>#># ...They outed my neighbors addresses ....
#>#>
#>#> but you still email them when people talk about them to you?

#> i.e. even though they did this to your neighbors, you still find
#> it valuable to email conversations people have with you about
#> the CoS to the CoS HP and HPs?

I asked you whether you provide CCs or BCCs to the CoS when
people speak with you about the org (as an org-reporter, as
you proclaimed that you are) even though the Big Bad CoS
'outed your neighbors addresses'.

you don't seem to understand the seeming duplicity or
irrationality of this behaviour. it may be a linguistic
problem. I'm perservering in order to attempt to clarify.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang ©
2004-12-15 07:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041214 viii om Hail Satan!
Big snip of repeated confusion.

Situation: Tos members got booted from Tos. Some Tos members left Tos,
long ago or recently. Some of them were in the SR org.

Two of these Tos people took to flaming Aquino regarding the Predisio mess -
as if he was guilty of it. IN their flames, they seemed to be implicating
OTHER Tos members who were not implicated and not in agreement with these
flames at all.

Kori got in on the mess online - pro Tos at the time. We emailed each other.
She told me things pertinent to the TOS AND to the SR. I cc'd it. Key
word - PERTINENT. IF she talked about other things - no cc.

Point being, the Tos-now-or-also-SR members did not want to post on usenet
and get involved in this chaos. But they also did NOT want Aquino thinking
that they were in on this slander of him and his wife regarding Presidio.
Got it? These people harbored NO ill will toward Aquino at all. Yet what
was happening online looked like they DID by inference. Therefore, I did
what I did. Also, some ex-TOS members who were NOT in SR were asking me to
help them out since they TOO were being implicated in slander of Aquino and
wife. I did - but I also told them to POST their thoughts and say it up
front. Some did.

No, I do not sent COS people cc's of anything since none of it pertains to
Sr org members. The two paths do not tend to cross - unless someone (like
you?) tries to make them cross by going around and around in circles. No
one in SR talks about the Cos - why would they? When we talk about and dig
up stuff that is pertinent to the org, we do NOT post it to usenet. We put
it on the website for all to read.

Go read http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html
--
Satanic Reds - Dark Tradition, Sat & Tan
Frames: http://satanicreds.says.it
Bookmark http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds
Michelet Satanism and Witchcraft http://home.wi.rr.com/lylythdotorg/
Dark Doctrines www.apodion.com/vad/
Guardians of Darkness http://geocities.com/go_darkness/index.html
Cthulhu Mythos:
http://.innsmouth.rules.it
http://lovecraft.shows.it
"Life is a wonder to be lived; not a problem to be solved."
-- TJ
Victor's Holiday Sockpuppet
2004-12-08 05:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
You're right, Tani isn't Tiffany. I did some checking last night, and
read thru all of Tiffany's sites and pages. Tiffany is in her early
20s, and looks nothing like Tani. Tiffany mentions her hubby, and has
photos on her site she took herself of her dogs and a very adorable
kittie. She's an artist, and I think she has a promising eye for
composition. Of course it's absurd for someone in their teens to style
themselves as an HP of anything, but hey that is youth. I've been
there. I hereby offer my sincere apology to Tiffany for connecting her
in any way with Jantsang/Lysenko. I was mistaken -- I should have
checked it out first.
Thanks for posting this. My own apologies and a full retraction to
"Tiffany" for alluding to such an unsavory association. Won't ever happen
again.

Regards,

Victor
--
I set my genius to portray the pleasures of cruelty
-Lautreamont
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