Discussion:
Qualifications for Satanist Clergy
(too old to reply)
SOD of the CoE
2005-05-10 20:43:47 UTC
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Basically, we have to start froms cratch.
the system has proceeded according to times old. initially when a
cult is begun it has elitist societal connects to foment it and
develop its authority. WHO one knows and the sociopolitical
connections set up a kind of 'dynasty' where those who impress
are awarded societal prestige. this was done in the LaVeyan and
Aquinoan Dynastic establishment. the latter was accomplished
with a clearer notion of idealism in association with succession.
So here's what we're doing.
reproducing other religions, establishing Herd-requisites
for what should be individual achievements.
A minister, in most faith, gets a doctorate in whatever.
the difference: Satanism is founded on doubt, not faith.
This means he/she had to do the folllowing.
Associates <likely 60 credit hours>
Bachelors <Another 60 credits minimum>
Masters <maybee 48 credits to 80 credits, depending on what it's on>
Doctorate <definitely 60 to 100 credits there>
and an ordination training program that lasts 6 months to 2 years max.
so...we have no standard in Satanism that's close to this. Why?
because standards are for Herd performance and the instigation of
group dominators and followers based on indoctrination and a
willingness to jump through hoops.
We talked it over back during the founding year, and agreed that the
christians and muslims are right to want these kinds of standards.
for religion this is proper. making Satanism into religion is just
what could be expected after it has sufficiently solidified in one
or two anti-religious valences.
A person representing your faith ought to know what the hell they are
talking about.
knowledge, data, indoctrination, elitism based on curriculae.
this is the departure of the Beastly toward the ToSser realms.
they definitely should be able to help people through emotional
crisis, and help the dying pass peacefully.
general religious roles, yes. Rite of Life Assistance.
Anything less would reflect very badly on us all,
horrors!
no matter which form of satanism we practice.
oh no!! unless our Satanism isn't human-centered.
This is our proposed solution, so look it over.
ditched. no value except for Herd Satanism creation.
the Neopagans who argue against clergy have a very
important point. some of these same establish such
standards of qualification for clergy and find
some of the same problems from which they've run.
The book reports are 5 simple essay questions with 5-10 paragraphs for
each, which any 4th grader could handle.
someone will have to administrate it. those who are part
of Satanism are generally partial to cronyism, which
means that the standards could be anything and it won't
really matter at all.
The whole thing, from scratch, done the hard way, shouldn't take a
serious person more than 3 years at a book a month,
some have already qualified. will you make them go back and do all
the work anew or offer 'de facto' certificates? based on interview?
and the ordination
can be issued during the process in australia, the us, canada, england,
and japan. All the other countries require completion <sorry guys, we
play by the rules>.
what will the ordination allow?

the variety of Satanism is good. whether this extends into
religion or remains in anti-religion and pseudo-Hermetic
crap is only the business of the participants.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2005-05-10 21:16:06 UTC
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Hail Satan!
so...we have no standard in Satanism that's close to this. Why?
That's a really good question. I think because Satanism is pretty much a
path of individuation not of a distinct creedo.
correct, it is on a somewhat different trajectory which may
more easily come to blows with religion than to become it.
What I mean is that the path
that people take to become Satanists are quite often unique.
yes, ruts for authority-making would therefore be difficult,
except for keen and shrewd "recognition" along the lines that
Freemasons (as "on sight") or varying mystics achieve. amongst
the Thelemic and Satanist contingents, this is USUALLY done on
an individual and personal basis. however, some weakling Herd-
mongers want some mommy-group to do this for them and allow
them to suckle without developing authority themselves.
"The Slaves shall serve", the story goes on.
Getting a Setian,
not a Satanist.
CoSer,
LaVeyan, they have their own priesthood setup already with
dynastic and preliminary screening already intact.
qualifiers can come from prominent real-world societal
positions and assume high ranking within the CoS because
it is primarily a club for networking.
ONAnist (love that term)
this still exists? the clamp-down on masturbation has
excited quite a few onanists and anti-onanists.
to agree on a creed of sorts would be difficult if not
impossible.
beliefs? the question should be why in the hell any self-
respecting Satanist would want to have anything to do with
creeds to begin with. they seem to lead merely to more
parasitic organizations which foster self-enslavement
ostensibly for "good cause".
While most Christians might agree on a
Nicean (sp?) Creed, I doubt Mr. Gilmore and Dr. Aquino
would agree on much of what defines Satanism.
what if Satanism *isn't* defined? ToSsers basically don't
use the term 'Satanist' and don't think of themselves as
Satanists except to compete with LaVeyans for attention.
(Dr. Aquino doesn't label himself or the ToS as
"Satanist" these days so it may be a moot point.)
correct.
No offense, but within the context of your organization
this makes sense,
why? how does it in any way make any sense within any
Satanist organization, where individualism and personal
choice, the liberation of the human spirit and mind are
more often than not considered paramount?
but I doubt that you'd get other groups to recognize
this type of study.
the Herd is eminently malleable. once something is begun
the roots will be lost by the ignorant and subHerds will
be easily driven into any socioeconomic organization
based primarily on how well they have been trained by
their society to be programmed citizens and the suitability
of the presenter trying to convert them. this training
will suffice to be integrated into any organizational
scheme, including the Satanist.

this doesn't PROVE anything, of course, except that even
Satanism can become Herd-religion (as, arguably, it has
sometimes already become, and appears to be fast coming
within whatever this RCOS is).
...the other organizations have their own type of an
ersatz degree system (ala "adept" in the ToS and
"Magister" in the CoS).
what do these do? how do they serve anyone but those who
are climbing the societal ladder interior to these orgs?

generally I suggest that they add one more Herd-Badge
layer to knowing anything at all about Satanism within
an individual life and subnoxate the Dark Flame, as it
were, to the direction of those who arrived earlier.
like a Pawnsi or Pyramid scheme, it can give those
who participate in them early on the sham experience
of being important and authoritative, but in reality
these are the dreams of the deluded, built in clouds.
We talked it over back during the founding year, and agreed that the
christians and muslims are right to want these kinds of standards. A
person representing your faith ought to know what the hell they are
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
talking about. they definitely should be able to help people through
emotional crisis, and help the dying pass peacefully. Anything less
would reflect very badly on us all, no matter which form of satanism we
practice.
there is no way to represent Satanism to others and the
facile and idiotic pablum which passes for "religion"
amongst the ignorant (say, in LaVey's handbook, or inside
the writings of some temple adepts people applaud) does more
to disrupt and destroy real Satanism than anything else.
Good point. As outsider to all of these organizations,
I think this would be a good starting place.
wherever it is started is a failure of *Satanism*.
These aren't huge exams or very difficult; they merely cover
what we feel the books were about, basically 25 questions.
The book reports are 5 simple essay questions with 5-10
paragraphs for each, which any 4th grader could handle.
By the same token, don't you think you're shortchanging the RCoS by making
this something any "4th grader could handle?"
lures require the semblance of simplicity in order to attract.
There's a lot of idiots that call themselves Satanists --
every one of them is a Satanist. those who dispute this are
themselves the idiots, undermining the individualistic basis
from which Satanism proceeds in order to push their elitism.
the attempt to reproduce Herd-religion to compete with it is
a mistaken and de-evolutionary error that will initially be
made while the AEon of the Adversary is coming to resolution.
alt.satanism is the perfect example. We've had
people rip off titles from legit organizations like the CoS and the ToS,
play-acting in cyberspace isn't new.
humorless twits flaunting "Magistra Morgana von Trapazoid" or "Lord
Ipissimus Igor the Misbegotten Misogynist" which makes for great reading in
between updating websites but isn't taken seriously by anyone with an IQ
over the ambient inside temperature of a 'fridge.
alt.satanism isn't a very good example of people appearing in public
and proclaiming their Satanism, because it is so anonymous. despite
the ability to track down these socks, puppets, Christian trolls,
and idiotic play-actors, the better example has *got* to be the
media interactions or sociological appearances of well-known
Satanists explaining how they practice and think.

ignoring these will net you a batch of crap, which is primarily
what alt.satanism includes. we can, of course, change this, by
posting to the contrary and setting a good example, and I've
noticed that you are one of those who actually do this.
...I find it a bit irritating for people to grant degrees for
book reports that "any 4th grader could handle."....
ya gotta start somewhere, and the 'mettle' of Satanism (likely
especially within the RCOS) is very substandard quality. also,
beginning with qualifications that ANYBODY can meet is often
the manner by which orgs expand. then later they tighten this
qualifier when the higher ranks become filled, and things
resume their nepotistic, clique-ranking standards, with
surface-oriented ideals of knowledge and mystical skill
propped overtop to give it prestige and self-delusion.

if you're gonna go into Satanism, you'll discover this
sooner or later, whether disillusioned by the Herd which
one joins or as part of a learning curve of independence.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2005-05-10 21:25:59 UTC
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...I have oft been
told by some of the more "colorful" members of the community that we
have no right to ask people to work hard, but your point is well taken.
if they start working hard they'll expect something not offered.
many folks in and out of satanism are lucky to have the ambient IQ
level of a toaster, let alone a fridge, but potentially the temper to
match the toaster.
in Satanism. its predisposition toward teen angst and the sociopath
means that those who remain are unusual or made it past the initial
stages challenging to the ignorant.
I'd like to point out, what's presented is what works in context of us,
that's true. The main point i hoped to make, and wasn't clear on, is
thematerial is freely given for public usage.
of course it is. the techniques for making Herds have existed for
a long long time now. creating a new set for a Satanist Herd is
also not new, though the 60s did bring an overt eruption for our
usage.
Too many of the, how'd you put it?
Magistra Morgana von Trapazoid" or "Lord
Ipissimus Igor the Misbegotten Misogynist" exist,
seeking to change the nature of humans is silly, and
taking many alt.satanism posters seriously is doubly so.
and they just LOVE their "secrecy" which is bullshit.
hiding the nature of the exploitation of the individual
is commonplace. Satanists should be suspicious of this,
since generally individuals are duped by orgs into
believing all manner of unsupportable crap about the
cosmos and their role within it.
We hope that some folks will be inspired to make something
of their own, and share the ideas widely.
a helpful attitude. I suggest that the A.'.A.'. or GWB
models are more helpful to Satanists because they offer
up something which makes the individual human at cause
for hir advance and sets us in proper relation outside
the corpse of cults. if you want to know more about
these non-societal orders/orgs, then you can research
particular manifestations of these such as that created
by GCJones and ACrowley or many others which fostered
transcendentalist cosmologies during interactions with
what the participants typically concluded were "alien
or supranormal intelligences".
It helps everybody grow when you have open communications.
completely agreed. thanks for all you do, even if I may
criticize any of its elements. doing things is valuable
to the individual, whereas merely telling stories tends
to dissolve the individual in fantasy.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2005-05-10 22:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Hail Satan!

REACH OUT AND TOUCH YOURSELF
I tried to define Satanism
there's the start of your problems. the reason that Satanism
cannot be defined is that it is escapist, reactionary, and
proceeds from individual motivations that cannot truly be
limited except for social elitist purposes (not realistic).
in terms of either orthodoxy, (particular
beliefs) or orthopraxy (particular practices), and found both failed.
good findings. liberative and helpful.
My current idea is that Satanism is symptomological. In laymen's
terms, if you have the cold or flu, you have certain symptoms. They're
not all present, but a certain combination of them helps to
differentiate which illness you have. That's how I view Satanism, as a
certain grouping of beliefs and practices that may not all be present,
but enough are present to determine Satanic qualities.
observations on what you are seeing in Satanism. this is comparable
to how good dictionaries are constructed. the practice of attempting
to "define" rather than to "describe" is problematic for individual
authority, autonomy, and beauty. people who take dictionaries as
definitive are ignorant idiots, and should be compared with those
who conduct their spiritual/religious affairs according to definitions.
What I find goofy is the problems of Satanism are that it is the leper
colony of occultism.
LOL -- it presents on the edge of Western religion to which
the wart of The Occult has been relegated.
Perhaps leech colony would be a better phrase.
For example, the ranks and grades are taken straight from other occult
organizations without reference to them.
correction: certain limited occult orgs. not all occult orgs have
rankings, some are anarchic, some are networked but
not hierarchic, some are recognizing but no defining.
The grades like Magister, Ippissimus, and Magus
Hermetic > Rosicrucian > Golden Dawn

the term is Ipsissimus. these are often splayed onto a map
made of sefirotic ladder-schemes.
1.) People who are reincarnated Buddhas, who forsake parinirvana to
guide those that are left behind.
LOL especially amongst those with a Buddhism-fetish. the
Buddhists themselves do *not* acknowledge this condition
and there is little evidence that *anybody* ever achieved
any of these things.
2.) People who sacrifice their elemental self and go into complete
communication with the Higher Will, Holy Guardian Angel, Godhead, etc.
the Matrix of Hermetic magic, self-destructive and enslaving to the
cult of the wannabe mage. pay attention to who is the target of this
rhetoric and how it is used to secure a workforce and creative
reservoir.
That means a revocation of individual will (not capitalized) for
Greater Will.
watch how these are changed and switched out for self-destructive
and enslaving alternatives through time, locating the special
"Will" (true!) outside the person and body of the individual
who is targetted as the receiver of the memes. it's a trap,
made to get the cult more converts and the leaders more Herd.
Given the range of occult practices in the world, it's
easy to construct ranks and grades from a number of sources,
most of these based on castles in the clouds and without any
kind of supplementary validation as to the condition of the
recipients of these 'august offices'.
why use
ones that are based on Kabbalah and the idea of self-sacrifice?
depends on who you are asking.

Hermetics and Christians:
competition with Jews (whose God's favour they seek)
austerity-contests (after Indian yogis and Persian fakirs)
subversion to the cult (in a general religious trend)

Satanists:
competition with Hermetics and Christians
not admitted, attention-grabbing,
and twisting original materials
toward ridiculous ends
inverted accomplishment values (ascetic)
self-sacrifice is usually understood
to represent *Christian* standards,
and since many Satanists are both
former Christians (like the bulk of
Neopagans pre-1980s) and anti-Christian,
this idea will not sit well with those
cannot sacrifice ideals of individualism
subversion to the cult (misguided)
if we have a bigger Herd to back us this
must mean that we are more Correct; even
if it means we completely lose sight of
the ideals upon which Satanism proper
are demonstrably based
Seems antithetical to me.
totally. the idiots replicate the Herd-religion of the past and
hope by doing so that they may fabricate a glorious vehicle for
the 'restitution' of Satanism -- something which has never
existed overtly until this century. they will fail and make
again a futile social shell masquerading as something helpful,
and from which, if successfully creating a new improved Herd,
Satanism may crawl.
This makes genuine occultists think Satanism is more or less
a social fad that leeches from other systems when it can't
create something of its own.
that's because most religious movements are precisely that,
and require innovative construction in order to seem valuable
on the surface. Neopaganism and its step-child, Satanism, are
not the host of many intellectuals and writers (many are anti-
intellectuals and anti-book due to past involvements), and so
must sometimes make do with the creations of others which they
will attempt to use for their own purposes (as did LaVey, whose
text was passable but whose later presenter and partner, Barton,
was his superior).

if this seems unconvincing, it should, but it should not
be dismissed merely because the proponents aren't bookish
nerds who like ladder-climbing schemes in mystic hoo-haw suits.
that's the route taken by ToSsers, whose Goldawnian echo is
not Satanism even by their own admission (except as competition).
Worse, what's called "ceremonial magick" requires a basic
the terminology breaks down at this point, primarily because
the term 'ceremonial has acquired a kind of traditional mark
of common structure and steam from repeated publishing efforts,
while the term 'magick' is usually the system offered up by
Crowley, himself a post-Goldawnian reject.
Additional System Study (Gnostic, Lucifierian, Hermetic,
Thelemic, Typhonian, and Egyptian Magick)
helpful but not necessary.
Natural History
extremely helpful for those who put stock in the
Doctrine of Signatures, but otherwise of variable value.
Religious Study/ Philosophic Study/ Social Study/ Psychology
Yoga and Kundalini
supplemental, not necessary in the slightest except
for particular cults involved with promoting it.
The Elemental Properties (W, A, E, F)
Astrology
Tarot
generally divination, which is the other main category of
occult study aside from magic.
Language, (Greek, Hebrew, Latin)
helpful but not necessary at all.
Extensive knowledge of Qabalah
this should be up there under "systems" and isn't necessary
outside certain structures or traditions of ceremonial magic.
for solitary, or individual practice, for example, it can be
completely disregarded except as an optional method to gain
self-confirmation outside the rational mind (and this of
arguably imprecise value).
Math Theory & Gematria
unnecessary as above. that it may be used (as "qabalah" above)
does not indicate its essentialness to the art).
Invocation and Evocation
imperative.
Creating Sigils and Pendants, using Sigil magick, etc.
valuable and helpful.
Kamea, mantras, mudras, and assorted Magickal square making techniques
valuable, but not essental.
Magickal Tools: The Robe, the Altar, the Temple
helpful but not essential. these last 4 are better than previous
in order to hit on the necessary elements for practice.
The list goes on but that's a fair synopsis.
it isn't surprising what was included given what is usually passed
off as "ceremonial magick" in text like "Modern Magick" and "Magick
in Theory and Practice". the cult wants to constrain to its form
and shape and craft the mind of the aspirant to its cosmologies.
That's not even for the higher ranks of teaching, that's just
for the lower grades.
in matricular orders a great deal of knowledge may be required
and tested. why is it of any value to Satanists, especially to
those who are ostensibly atheists and non-occultists? we should
pay close attention and ask why the Enochian Calls and quasi-
Wiccan rituals were introduced to Satanism early in its history.
The
closest group that comes to this is the Temple of Set, and this can be
seen in the quality of even their ex-members. The ex-ToS'ers on
alt.satanism were some of the most intelligent commentators....
you're trying to establish standards within Satanism so as to beef
up the substance of posts to alt.satanism??!! that'd be silly.
So, do you want lots of members or a few high quality ones?
Take your pick.
organizations are for the exploitation of membership in pursuit
of agreed goals. individualism is always sacrificed for this,
which is why "Satanic church" is an oxymoron. those who haven't
yet understood the farce and fiction of a Satanic church aren't
cut out for solitary practice or integration into Satanism proper.
1974: "Their racist ideals are also worn on their sleeves, and, I
believe, as removable as their armbands... The C/S must be O.K., like
the Hell's Angels. The colors are similar..... My Satanic amulet
gives me power. I'm not the misfit anymore, with pimples and a heart
murmur and flat feet. What does it matter anymore that I can't play
baseball or don't spell too good? So what if I can't get a girl?
I got my armband. You see, we are dealing with a level of intelligence
on which imagery and ideals are easily interchangeable." (personal
papers)
excellent! correct. because we may be dealing with this level of
intellect, this doesn't mean that it must remain there. however,
this level of intellect brought to bear on the problem of a lack
of clearly-delineated authority will always fail to crack it.
if you want to construct something helpful, it will be for the
individual to do on their own with or without the help of their
fellow Satanists, and won't cement into a hierarchic structure.

blessed beast!

HUMAN-BURGERS ARE PEOPLE FOOD

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2005-05-11 00:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
The Elemental Properties (W, A, E, F)
Astrology
Tarot
generally divination, which is the other main category of
occult study aside from magic.
addendum/ps:

'The Elemental Properties' is ambiguous outside cultural
references. the 'Aristotlean' elements, so called,
appeared prior to Aristotle and probably have a few
different expositions. this category of education IS
extremely valuable for certain types of magic, and is
*particularly* valuable within Hermetic magic, which
uses elemental divisions within its symbolic system
as it manifests in post-Goldawnian offshoots.

insofar as ceremonial magic extends beyond Hermetic
constructions to numerous examples, elements are of
variable value and may be distracting as they run
askew certain cultural selections (compare the Chinese
5 element system, or the 3 element system of those who
put together writings of "Kabbalah", from which these
Hermetics will often draw, mistaking the original intent.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
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