Discussion:
On Becoming a Satanist
(too old to reply)
SOD of the CoE
2004-11-23 10:40:48 UTC
Permalink
50041123 viii om happy kaos day!!!

***@nomail.com:
# Erich Kohl <***@sbcglobal.net>:
#> I am somebody who is considering either becoming a Satanist, or at
#> least adopting some Satanic philosophy in order to improve my life.
#
# How?

hey, k00l.

I designed the Formula for Becoming a Satanist recently:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: how does one become a Satanist? how do I make a Pact?

I can tell you what I know about it so far, having been
a Satanist since 199666. it is a Formula. it may be played
out in a variety of ways based on the will of the Satanist.
the manner of initiation is determined by the background of
the aspirant and the relation established with Satan. what
Satan is to the aspirant determines to a degree what kind of
initiation will be engaged if any. some people aren't cut
out for it but merely need to do the run-up. some have to
go way out to decondition themselves from heavy religious
training. it varies, but the formula does seem identifiable.

1) figure out somehow what Satan was, is,
or will be, to you;

2) make contact with, establish a suitable
position with respect to, and/or engage
this being in an arrangement, contract for
mutual alliance, or whatever else you feel
competent to bargain with or about. don't
be too hasty, study extant pacts by real
Satanists, properly time its initiation.

3) maintain the established arrangement until
it is no longer of use to you, then dispense
with it. at the time of the making of the
arrangement you will become a Satanist.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Q: what kind of bargain?

the Sorting Out part will be the primary difficulty.
whatever suits your need.

if you want to become a Satanist, figure out why. then
you can use this to establish part of the relationship
or position with respect to whatever Satan is.

-------------------------------------------------------------
note: many there are who will attempt to determine for
you what Satan is and recommend a course of action.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------

that's one description of how.

#> [re] www.satanism101.com. ...On this website, it says
#> that true Satanists do not worship Satan.

maybe they're just friends or band-mates or something.

#> Why, then, is the religion called "Satanism?"

maybe it means Fuck-You-ism. almost insulting to discuss.

#> Is Satan a word that has become abused and misused over
#> the centuries? Is Satan not the same thing as the Devil,
#> or Lucifer, or whatever he's (it's) called?

<snip>

yes, Satan is not the same thing as the Devil, or as Lucifer.
in the first place the last one's a *gal*, and the Devil's
way too cute to be more than a hairy demon. with these Star
God stories who come to invade your homeland in the guise
of raping humans they've duped into believing they'd created
the *universe*, the Satan is usually the Enemy, the Cosmic Evil.

Satanists typically agree on this single point (that Satan is
*not* their Cosmic Evil), and find commonality of opinion after
that in short supply.

#> If true Satanists do not worship this fiendish creature,

demonolatry; the worship of malevolent beings, or beings called
wrathful, heinous, monstrous, or demonic. generally Satanists
do not, in fact, worship The Cosmic Evil. stray sickos and kids
deconditioning after heavy family pressures in conservative
Christian homes maybe, but not the usual Satanist. horror flicks.

#> why name their religion after him?

it wasn't named by them. it was named by the previous Martyrs.
you see, the whole is a cult of matyrdom, related directly to
Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, to Witchcraft traditions and
to Marianic cults, as well as to other transcendental revolu-
tionaries striving to break the back of stupidity.

# IMO Anton LaVey, who wrote the Satanic Bible,

not all of it. Ragnar Redbeard wrote some of it, and bits were
apparently lifted at least in part from Hermetic magicians.

# believed in Satan and was a servant to him [/it].... In Satan...
# exists, what I've been led to believe is that his objective is
# to prevent people from being accepted by God into his afterlife.
# Saying that Satan doesn't exist couldn't hurt that objective,

yes, it could in fact hurt that objective if it led you astray,
away from the God who so dearly yearned for your embrace.

# and saying that God and Satan both don't exist could work for it.

the God Doesn't Exist assertion sort of blasts the Accepted By God
portion right outta the water.

# So LaVey said that neither exist,

what would he know about either? why? were his parents were catholics?

# but also tells you to acknowledge the respective princes of hell
# as one (#7, which is God's number) of the thirteen steps in a ritual.

neat numbers. and sorry, but *5* is God's number. Kali told me so.
it forms the central pivot of the Tetraktys, and thus functions
in that format of the Tree of Life in a manner alike unto Tifaret.
in the Numerology of the Kali Tetraktys it is Bios, Life, 5, Mars.
so either you or LaVey will have to change your book now to conform.

# He also encourages people to believe that the Satanist's ego can
# refuse to die, even after the expiration of the flesh which housed it.

magicians in the Golden Dawn, the Chayoats, and lots of others talk
about this survival of the ego-consciousness beyond death. it is the
prime motivating force for some very sincere religious individuals.
they are stupid, and their time will have been wasted.

# Satan, the father of lies...LaVey, a blatant liar... If lies are a
# big part of your life, then Satanism may improve it. If not, then
# you might want to consider avoiding it.

knowing as you do the character or the condition of the liar, as a
Satanist the only thing that remains is what draws my attention to
him. did he make pretty things? or reflect the present or the past
in a manner worthy of remembrance? spearheading first churches of
religions is a sure way to gain memory points in my book. they say
he originated the religion of Satanism. him and some of his friends.

I'm pretty sure that most originators of religions are not really
fun people to be around. liars, self-obsessed monomaniacs, the
world's littered with them. I heard they did some decent Black
Masses. if what they write about mysticism and the Greater Black
Magick of deconditioning from their religious backgrounds was on
the level, then there may be some lovely inversions floating about.

in any case there's the splinter-groups hand-me-down left-over
Satanism with lineage and a worn look in the eyes, and there's
the certitude of either denying the bastard flat out or worship
in all its majesty of something your family would find heinous.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
_____________________________________________________________________

CoS is so gung-ho about its prohibition on animal sacrifice
that it _opposed_ the U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing
animal sacrifice!
- - - -------------------------------------------------------- - -
***@diane.vera (Diane Vera) : alt.satanism

____________________________________________________________
d***@nomail.com
2004-11-23 21:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041123 viii om happy kaos day!!!
#> I am somebody who is considering either becoming a Satanist, or at
#> least adopting some Satanic philosophy in order to improve my life.
#
# How?
hey, k00l.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: how does one become a Satanist? how do I make a Pact?
I can tell you what I know about it so far, having been
a Satanist since 199666. it is a Formula. it may be played
out in a variety of ways based on the will of the Satanist.
the manner of initiation is determined by the background of
the aspirant and the relation established with Satan. what
Satan is to the aspirant determines to a degree what kind of
initiation will be engaged if any. some people aren't cut
out for it but merely need to do the run-up. some have to
go way out to decondition themselves from heavy religious
training. it varies, but the formula does seem identifiable.
1) figure out somehow what Satan was, is,
or will be, to you;
2) make contact with, establish a suitable
position with respect to, and/or engage
this being in an arrangement, contract for
mutual alliance, or whatever else you feel
competent to bargain with or about. don't
be too hasty, study extant pacts by real
Satanists, properly time its initiation.
3) maintain the established arrangement until
it is no longer of use to you, then dispense
with it. at the time of the making of the
arrangement you will become a Satanist.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: what kind of bargain?
the Sorting Out part will be the primary difficulty.
whatever suits your need.
if you want to become a Satanist, figure out why. then
you can use this to establish part of the relationship
or position with respect to whatever Satan is.
-------------------------------------------------------------
note: many there are who will attempt to determine for
you what Satan is and recommend a course of action.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
that's one description of how.
#> [re] www.satanism101.com. ...On this website, it says
#> that true Satanists do not worship Satan.
maybe they're just friends or band-mates or something.
#> Why, then, is the religion called "Satanism?"
maybe it means Fuck-You-ism. almost insulting to discuss.
#> Is Satan a word that has become abused and misused over
#> the centuries? Is Satan not the same thing as the Devil,
#> or Lucifer, or whatever he's (it's) called?
<snip>
yes, Satan is not the same thing as the Devil,
Revelation 12:
9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil,
or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.
Post by SOD of the CoE
or as Lucifer.
in the first place the last one's a *gal*,
Where'd you get that?
Post by SOD of the CoE
and the Devil's
way too cute to be more than a hairy demon. with these Star
God stories who come to invade your homeland in the guise
of raping humans they've duped into believing they'd created
the *universe*, the Satan is usually the Enemy, the Cosmic Evil.
Satanists typically agree on this single point (that Satan is
*not* their Cosmic Evil), and find commonality of opinion after
that in short supply.
#> If true Satanists do not worship this fiendish creature,
demonolatry; the worship of malevolent beings, or beings called
wrathful, heinous, monstrous, or demonic. generally Satanists
do not, in fact, worship The Cosmic Evil. stray sickos and kids
deconditioning after heavy family pressures in conservative
Christian homes maybe, but not the usual Satanist. horror flicks.
#> why name their religion after him?
it wasn't named by them. it was named by the previous Martyrs.
you see, the whole is a cult of matyrdom, related directly to
Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, to Witchcraft traditions and
to Marianic cults, as well as to other transcendental revolu-
tionaries striving to break the back of stupidity.
# IMO Anton LaVey, who wrote the Satanic Bible,
not all of it. Ragnar Redbeard wrote some of it, and bits were
apparently lifted at least in part from Hermetic magicians.
Where did the rituals originate?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# believed in Satan and was a servant to him [/it].... In Satan...
# exists, what I've been led to believe is that his objective is
# to prevent people from being accepted by God into his afterlife.
# Saying that Satan doesn't exist couldn't hurt that objective,
yes, it could in fact hurt that objective if it led you astray,
away from the God who so dearly yearned for your embrace.
If his objective is to prevent people from being accepted by God
into his afterlife, then it wouldn't hurt the objective if it led you astray,
away from the God.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# and saying that God and Satan both don't exist could work for it.
the God Doesn't Exist assertion sort of blasts the Accepted By God
portion right outta the water.
That's the idea behind it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# So LaVey said that neither exist,
what would he know about either?
It wouldn't matter if he knew about either, or if he did know and
deliberately lied. What matters is if he could successfully convince
people that what he said was true.
Post by SOD of the CoE
why? were his parents were catholics?
# but also tells you to acknowledge the respective princes of hell
# as one (#7, which is God's number) of the thirteen steps in a ritual.
neat numbers. and sorry, but *5* is God's number. Kali told me so.
it forms the central pivot of the Tetraktys, and thus functions
in that format of the Tree of Life in a manner alike unto Tifaret.
in the Numerology of the Kali Tetraktys it is Bios, Life, 5, Mars.
so either you or LaVey will have to change your book now to conform.
No. Why? LOL. Because I don't believe you.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# He also encourages people to believe that the Satanist's ego can
# refuse to die, even after the expiration of the flesh which housed it.
magicians in the Golden Dawn, the Chayoats, and lots of others talk
about this survival of the ego-consciousness beyond death. it is the
prime motivating force for some very sincere religious individuals.
they are stupid, and their time will have been wasted.
Maybe. If there is life after this, then there is likely God, Satan,
Angels and whatever else imo.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Satan, the father of lies...LaVey, a blatant liar... If lies are a
# big part of your life, then Satanism may improve it. If not, then
# you might want to consider avoiding it.
knowing as you do the character or the condition of the liar, as a
Satanist the only thing that remains is what draws my attention to
him. did he make pretty things? or reflect the present or the past
in a manner worthy of remembrance? spearheading first churches of
religions is a sure way to gain memory points in my book. they say
he originated the religion of Satanism. him and some of his friends.
My impression is that he didn't originate Satanism, but that he
greatly distorted it, and was successful in making his distorted
version popular with some, and made many people aware of it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
I'm pretty sure that most originators of religions are not really
fun people to be around. liars, self-obsessed monomaniacs, the
world's littered with them. I heard they did some decent Black
Masses. if what they write about mysticism and the Greater Black
Magick of deconditioning from their religious backgrounds was on
the level, then there may be some lovely inversions floating about.
in any case there's the splinter-groups hand-me-down left-over
Satanism with lineage and a worn look in the eyes, and there's
the certitude of either denying the bastard flat out or worship
in all its majesty of something your family would find heinous.
That sounds about right to me. I believe LaVey may have
just began a progression, with the outcome to be for it to be
more popular for people to get back to worshipping Satan.
Start out by denying him and let that phase play itself out...
then start sneaking him back in again...so in the long run
more people are deliberately going his way.
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
Blessed how? By what?
Post by SOD of the CoE
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
I've been wondering if you folks have Satanic Bible camps
for your kids and stuff. Would it make Satanists proud if they
had a son who came home from camp saying he learned to
throw a sex curse at a girl, and he got some? Or he learned
to throw a destruction curse at someone who ended up getting
badly hurt or killed?

Is the Satanic Bible available to read online?
Post by SOD of the CoE
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
_____________________________________________________________________
CoS is so gung-ho about its prohibition on animal sacrifice
that it _opposed_ the U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing
animal sacrifice!
- - - -------------------------------------------------------- - -
____________________________________________________________
SOD of the CoE
2004-11-24 06:19:39 UTC
Permalink
50041123 viii om Hail Satan!

#>#> Is Satan a word that has become abused and misused over
#>#> the centuries? Is Satan not the same thing as the Devil,
#>#> or Lucifer, or whatever he's (it's) called?

bobo:
#> yes, Satan is not the same thing as the Devil, or as Lucifer.
#> in the first place the last one's a *gal*,

***@nomail.com:
# Where'd you get that?

check out some dictionary. 'light-bringer' Morning Star Venus.
read some good books on Isaiah's translation into Latin.

#># IMO Anton LaVey, who wrote the Satanic Bible,
#>
#> not all of it. Ragnar Redbeard wrote some of it, and bits were
#> apparently lifted at least in part from Hermetic magicians.
#
# Where did the rituals originate?

The Satanic Rituals? doesn't it tell you in its contents?
I just looked and there is no mention of the author. should
there have been? in scriptures people don't much care as long
as they get the exact meaning of the text and what it is that
they are supposed to *do* about it (take injunctions from it,
proselytize it to others, attest faithfulness to it, 'accept'
it, attest to its origins the authorship of infernal insight,
practice them as magical rites, etc.).

# If his objective is to prevent people from being accepted
# by God into his afterlife,

no, since he doesn't believe in the God, his interests aren't
so much to make that happen as to convince them that his own
philosophies and histories are more likely or valuable. this
may have the side-effect of drawing you away from your God,
IF AND ONLY IF Past-Magister LaVey is not in some way your
God or is not associated with your God. this you haven't
really demonstrated (not that I'd expect you to try ;>).

# then it wouldn't hurt the objective
# if it led you astray, away from the God.

as you put it, you are completely correct and I thank you
for the explanation. very helpful. given that he is called
a liar, a worshipper of the Father of Lies (itself a lie),
and a circus ringmaster (apparently another lie), perhaps
your explanation would have more staying power if you could
explain how his youth was spent being beaten up by your
God or betrayed, such that he sought revenge.
I don't recall his biography, do you know it?

#> the God Doesn't Exist assertion sort of blasts the
#> Accepted By God portion right outta the water.
#
# That's the idea behind it.

yeah, that or he really believed that the God doesn't exist,
which is far more likely.

# ...What matters is if he could successfully convince people
# that what he said was true.

then what he was doing is perhaps important. if being
*convincing* is all that is required, then he's done
this pretty thoroughly, despite or perhaps because of
an atmosphere of ambiguity as regards his character.
even you believe him to be a Satanist.

# My impression is that he didn't originate Satanism,

who did, by your measure? did they think of themselves
as Satanists? what year was it? what area of the world?

# That sounds about right to me. I believe LaVey may have
# just began a progression, with the outcome to be for it to be
# more popular for people to get back to worshipping Satan.

a fascinating hypothesis. wouldn't they want to have images
of Satan on the altar? I don't recall those. did they have
a Baphomet or something besides a naked woman and candles?

# Start out by denying him and let that phase play itself out...

the strategy for Satanists who are knowingly working against
the machinations of your God's universe. I understand.

# then start sneaking him back in again...so in the long run
# more people are deliberately going his way.

right, headed for the Underworld instead of the Pearly Gates.

#> blessed beast!
#
# Blessed how? By what?

by virtue of its beastliness it is blessed.

# I've been wondering if you folks have Satanic Bible
# camps for your kids and stuff.

maybe the CoSatanists do that every once in a while.
Setians have a thing about only involving adults in
the ceremonial activities, I think.

# Would it make Satanists proud if they had a son who
# came home from camp saying he learned to throw a sex
# curse at a girl, and he got some?

LOL!!!! children are under the protection of Satan.
that means you're not supposed to harm them.
cults that do that are not CoSatanic, period.

there are mockeries of the Church of Satan which are
associated w/ NAMBLA, or idiots in other Satanist
churches get busted for pedophilia and go to jail.
assholes are STILL 10/12. last report I saw indicated
no appreciable increase in criminal activities when a
person was associated with Satanism as whem associated
with any other well-known religion (Christianity; such
examinations also indicate occasional *higher* instances
within Christianity as a casualty of the religious practice).

# Or he learned to throw a destruction curse at someone
# who ended up getting badly hurt or killed?

revenge is a weaknesses of the CoSatanic brand.
justification of violence in part disqualifies
the Church of Satan and its LaVeyan philosophy
from truly Satanic character (supporting wild
nature), primarily because

1) it doesn't go far enough in protecting animals;
and 2) justified revenge is typically a human exploit.

# Is the Satanic Bible available to read online?

buy it and support the church, you cheapskates.

.,4,.
..,_____,..
.,==============================,.
.___________.~// /// \\\ \\~._________.

~^---------------------------------------------------------^~
| |
| THE CHURCH OF EUTHANASIA |
| |
|_______________________________________________________|
|_________________________________________________________|
|______|===|______|===================|______|===|______|
||||||\ +- ||||||\ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|||||| +-+ ||||||
||||||\\ + ||||||\\ +-+-_________-+-+-||||||\ - ||||||
||||||\\\. ||||||\\\ +-+| | | -+-+||||||\\ . ||||||
||||||\\\\ ||||||\\\\ +-| @|@ | +-+-||||||\\\ ||||||
||||||\\\\\||||||\\\\\ +| | | -+-+||||||\\\\ ||||||
|~~~~~~|\\\|~~~~~~|\\\\\ |___|___| +-+|~~~~~~|\\\|~~~~~~|
|~SODOMY~~~~ABORTION~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SUICIDE~CANNIBALISM~|
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THANK YOU FOR NOT BREEDING ~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
_______________________________________________________________

boboroshi
------------------------------------------------------------------
Satanic Outreach Director (SOD)
The Order of Kaos Under Satan (TOKUS)
In the Church of Euthanasia (CoE)
mailto:***@boboroshi

TOKUS-CoE Archive
http://www.satanservice.org/coe/

TOKUS Satanism Archive
http://ww.satanservice.org

Esoteric Archive's Satanism Directory
http://www.luckymojo.com/satanism/

Mother Church
------------------------------------------------------------------
Church of Euthanasia
Reverend Chrissy Korda (mailto:***@churchofeuthanasia.org)

ftp://ftp.etext.org /pub/Zines/Snuffit
gopher:gopher.etext.org /11/Zines/Snuffit
http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org

Snailmail: C.O.E., Box 261, Somerville, MA 02143
Remember: SODOMY prevents ABORTIONS!

blessed beast!
______________________________________________________________________

Emergency Contraception:18005849911
--
***@nagasiva; http://www.satanservice.org/
emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired;
HOODOO CATALOGUE! send street addy to: ***@luckymojo.com
d***@nomail.com
2004-11-24 16:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041123 viii om Hail Satan!
#>#> Is Satan a word that has become abused and misused over
#>#> the centuries? Is Satan not the same thing as the Devil,
#>#> or Lucifer, or whatever he's (it's) called?
#> yes, Satan is not the same thing as the Devil, or as Lucifer.
#> in the first place the last one's a *gal*,
# Where'd you get that?
check out some dictionary. 'light-bringer' Morning Star Venus.
read some good books on Isaiah's translation into Latin.
#># IMO Anton LaVey, who wrote the Satanic Bible,
#>
#> not all of it. Ragnar Redbeard wrote some of it, and bits were
#> apparently lifted at least in part from Hermetic magicians.
#
# Where did the rituals originate?
The Satanic Rituals? doesn't it tell you in its contents?
I just looked and there is no mention of the author. should
there have been?
I was curious about it, since we were discussing how much
of the book LaVey wrote himself. You may be familiar with
this:
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/criticism/smulo.html#_ftn141
where there are some great examples of some of LaVey's
plagiarizing of Redbeard. In the section 3.5.2. Hypocrisy and
Plagiarism it is explained that many of the ideas he presented
in his Bible were not his own.
Post by SOD of the CoE
in scriptures people don't much care as long
as they get the exact meaning of the text and what it is that
they are supposed to *do* about it (take injunctions from it,
proselytize it to others, attest faithfulness to it, 'accept'
it, attest to its origins the authorship of infernal insight,
practice them as magical rites, etc.).
# If his objective is to prevent people from being accepted
# by God into his afterlife,
no, since he doesn't believe in the God, his interests aren't
so much to make that happen as to convince them that his own
philosophies and histories are more likely or valuable.
*If* he didn't believe in God. I believe he did...and may even
more now that he's dead.
Post by SOD of the CoE
this
may have the side-effect of drawing you away from your God,
IF AND ONLY IF Past-Magister LaVey is not in some way your
God or is not associated with your God. this you haven't
really demonstrated (not that I'd expect you to try ;>).
# then it wouldn't hurt the objective
# if it led you astray, away from the God.
as you put it, you are completely correct and I thank you
for the explanation. very helpful. given that he is called
a liar, a worshipper of the Father of Lies (itself a lie),
and a circus ringmaster (apparently another lie), perhaps
your explanation would have more staying power if you could
explain how his youth was spent being beaten up by your
God or betrayed, such that he sought revenge.
And/or if he had chosen Satan as his Lord.
Post by SOD of the CoE
I don't recall his biography, do you know it?
No. I'm only familiar with the lies in his bible.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> the God Doesn't Exist assertion sort of blasts the
#> Accepted By God portion right outta the water.
#
# That's the idea behind it.
yeah, that or he really believed that the God doesn't exist,
which is far more likely.
More likely to you. Less likely to me, considering he
believed the "ego" could live on after the body expires,
and that people should acknowledge the princes of
hell during rituals.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...What matters is if he could successfully convince people
# that what he said was true.
then what he was doing is perhaps important. if being
*convincing* is all that is required, then he's done
this pretty thoroughly, despite or perhaps because of
an atmosphere of ambiguity as regards his character.
even you believe him to be a Satanist.
# My impression is that he didn't originate Satanism,
who did, by your measure? did they think of themselves
as Satanists? what year was it? what area of the world?
I'd think you would know more about that than I do.
A Google search for "history of satanism" came up with
118,000 results, and from the brief look I gave a few of
them I'm still of the impression that LaVey didn't originate
the idea. If you have more interest than that, check it out:
http://tinyurl.com/6bnrj
Post by SOD of the CoE
# That sounds about right to me. I believe LaVey may have
# just began a progression, with the outcome to be for it to be
# more popular for people to get back to worshipping Satan.
a fascinating hypothesis. wouldn't they want to have images
of Satan on the altar?
Not imo.
Post by SOD of the CoE
I don't recall those. did they have
a Baphomet or something besides a naked woman and candles?
# Start out by denying him and let that phase play itself out...
the strategy for Satanists who are knowingly working against
the machinations of your God's universe. I understand.
They wouldn't have to know it, and my impression is that
they don't know. For example: if it's happening, we don't know it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# then start sneaking him back in again...so in the long run
# more people are deliberately going his way.
right, headed for the Underworld instead of the Pearly Gates.
But there would have to be more to it than that, since
just avoiding God would accomplish that much...or so
we are encouraged to believe.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> blessed beast!
#
# Blessed how? By what?
by virtue of its beastliness it is blessed.
You don't think it exists, do you?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I've been wondering if you folks have Satanic Bible
# camps for your kids and stuff.
maybe the CoSatanists do that every once in a while.
Setians have a thing about only involving adults in
the ceremonial activities, I think.
# Would it make Satanists proud if they had a son who
# came home from camp saying he learned to throw a sex
# curse at a girl, and he got some?
LOL!!!! children are under the protection of Satan.
that means you're not supposed to harm them.
cults that do that are not CoSatanic, period.
there are mockeries of the Church of Satan which are
associated w/ NAMBLA, or idiots in other Satanist
churches get busted for pedophilia and go to jail.
assholes are STILL 10/12. last report I saw indicated
no appreciable increase in criminal activities when a
person was associated with Satanism as whem associated
with any other well-known religion (Christianity; such
examinations also indicate occasional *higher* instances
within Christianity as a casualty of the religious practice).
It wouldn't necessarily be adults molesting children,
but adults teaching children to act as the Satanic Bible
encourages. Christians encourage kids to act like Jesus
taught, so I wondered if Satanists encourage kids to
act like LaVey taught. And if they don't want their kids
to act that way, why do they want to act that way
themselves?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Or he learned to throw a destruction curse at someone
# who ended up getting badly hurt or killed?
revenge is a weaknesses of the CoSatanic brand.
justification of violence in part disqualifies
the Church of Satan and its LaVeyan philosophy
from truly Satanic character (supporting wild
nature), primarily because
1) it doesn't go far enough in protecting animals;
and 2) justified revenge is typically a human exploit.
The Satanic Bible says to be certain you DO NOT
care if the intended victim lives or dies, and that after
causing their destruction, revel, rather than feel remorse.
P. 118 in my copy.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Is the Satanic Bible available to read online?
buy it and support the church, you cheapskates.
Should I take that as "no"? I do have a copy, but
didn't buy it to support the church. I bought it to see
what it's about. It looks to me like at least half of it
is about cursing other people.
Post by SOD of the CoE
.,4,.
..,_____,..
.,==============================,.
.___________.~// /// \\\ \\~._________.
~^---------------------------------------------------------^~
| |
| THE CHURCH OF EUTHANASIA |
| |
|_______________________________________________________|
|_________________________________________________________|
|______|===|______|===================|______|===|______|
||||||\ +- ||||||\ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|||||| +-+ ||||||
||||||\\ + ||||||\\ +-+-_________-+-+-||||||\ - ||||||
||||||\\\. ||||||\\\ +-+| | | -+-+||||||\\ . ||||||
||||||\\\\\||||||\\\\\ +| | | -+-+||||||\\\\ ||||||
|~~~~~~|\\\|~~~~~~|\\\\\ |___|___| +-+|~~~~~~|\\\|~~~~~~|
|~SODOMY~~~~ABORTION~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SUICIDE~CANNIBALISM~|
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THANK YOU FOR NOT BREEDING ~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
_______________________________________________________________
boboroshi
------------------------------------------------------------------
Satanic Outreach Director (SOD)
The Order of Kaos Under Satan (TOKUS)
In the Church of Euthanasia (CoE)
TOKUS-CoE Archive
http://www.satanservice.org/coe/
TOKUS Satanism Archive
http://ww.satanservice.org
Esoteric Archive's Satanism Directory
http://www.luckymojo.com/satanism/
Mother Church
------------------------------------------------------------------
Church of Euthanasia
ftp://ftp.etext.org /pub/Zines/Snuffit
gopher:gopher.etext.org /11/Zines/Snuffit
http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org
Snailmail: C.O.E., Box 261, Somerville, MA 02143
Remember: SODOMY prevents ABORTIONS!
blessed beast!
______________________________________________________________________
Emergency Contraception:18005849911
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-24 21:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Where did the rituals originate?
The Satanic Rituals? doesn't it tell you in its contents?
I just looked and there is no mention of the author. should
there have been?
Michael A Aquino wrote most of them as he does explain somewhere.
Post by d***@nomail.com
I was curious about it, since we were discussing how much
of the book LaVey wrote himself. You may be familiar with
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/criticism/smulo.html#_ftn141
John Smulo! I like that man.
Post by d***@nomail.com
where there are some great examples of some of LaVey's
plagiarizing of Redbeard. In the section 3.5.2. Hypocrisy and
Plagiarism it is explained that many of the ideas he presented
in his Bible were not his own.
Post by SOD of the CoE
in scriptures people don't much care as long
I'd think you would know more about that than I do.
A Google search for "history of satanism" came up with
118,000 results, and from the brief look I gave a few of
them I'm still of the impression that LaVey didn't originate
http://tinyurl.com/6bnrj
Hmm, VERY intersting. Some of them are defining "satanic" by what we call
"ophionic." Others are defining it by organizations that have done
anti-human deeds and conspired to do that.

In short, and simply put - WE in SR and other orgs related define "satan" by
making a pun that we just made up. Sat and Tan - two Vedantic terms. This
shows up on web searches, you see. None of if has a thing to do with evil.
SEe other post I made to you about types of Satanism around today in public
orgs.

Our idea is simply this: Boundless Darkness - AND the point of LIGHT or
FLAME within that darkness" and then goes onto to explain the light/flame
that is WITHIN people. You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.

Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.

But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos - some of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# That sounds about right to me. I believe LaVey may have
# just began a progression, with the outcome to be for it to be
# more popular for people to get back to worshipping Satan.
From his biography one can simply conclude this - and I wrote this TO LaVey
and he said I knew him very well - so he agreed. For one, he was outcast at
the time he was a kid and teenager (probably racial shit, bigotry). For
two, he obviously paid so much attention to "THEM - those Christians" that
he wanted their acceptance - not in a religious sense, but as a person,
personal sense. So he "became" the Devil and made Addam's Family sillyness
out of it all - and at first he surely did do this as his daughter Karla
confirms. At first he did that plus wnated to blast hypocricy - but he was
only familiar with some small forms of Christianity
which he blasted. I personally knew Jews who felt that way toward "the
Christians" and hated the entire religion - failing to recognize that it
wasn't a religious thing. It was a bigotry thing. So as The Devil, LaVey
got what he wanted - acceptance, people liked him now - and so forth. They
no longer saw him as some "non-white or semi-white ethnic" but saw him as
"ooo, spooky, the devil." That he didn't like HIMSELF can be seen by the
fact that he dynamited his own chances to get even MORE fame - as Aquino
documents in his book on the COS. He ended up being rejected by Aquino (his
number 2 guy) and a lot of his own Priests. That's when he got bitter. As
I say, it's not what the man said - it's what the man DID that can inform
you about him.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
a fascinating hypothesis. wouldn't they want to have images
of Satan on the altar?
Not imo.
Yes, they had Baphomets which they regarded as a symbol of Satan, and a
naked woman.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
right, headed for the Underworld instead of the Pearly Gates.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
Ferencz Bathory
2004-11-26 15:22:20 UTC
Permalink
You've got to wake up folks, Lavey is a pig deserving decapitation if
he was not already dead!

How can you follow him? You joking Satanists....

You've got to teach me how can someone being a "SATANist" while he
doesn't believe in Him.

Laveyan Satanism is bullshit, because Laveyan was narcissic enough to
reject the truth, that GOD and SATAN ARE spiritual being, he can't
denie the existence of our Gods.

You are stupid enough to follow a blind asshole, I'm happy with his
dead.


88FerenczBB
True Satanists will spites on your graves
d***@nomail.com
2004-11-26 20:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ferencz Bathory
You've got to wake up folks, Lavey is a pig deserving decapitation if
he was not already dead!
How can you follow him? You joking Satanists....
You've got to teach me how can someone being a "SATANist" while he
doesn't believe in Him.
Laveyan Satanism is bullshit,
True enough, but people will swallow it none the less, and that's
the point. The objective is to persuade people to avoid accepting
the creator as their Lord, and when he is successful LaVey has
accomplished his goal, even now that he is dead, and even after
people find out how full of shit he was. If Satan exists, it's probably
all deliberately like that so he can get that much more amusement
from the people who eat it up.
Post by Ferencz Bathory
because Laveyan was narcissic enough to
reject the truth, that GOD and SATAN ARE spiritual being, he can't
denie the existence of our Gods.
You are stupid enough to follow a blind asshole, I'm happy with his
dead.
88FerenczBB
True Satanists will spites on your graves
Little Orphan Anomy
2004-11-26 21:08:49 UTC
Permalink
you certainly have a way with words (werds?)
Post by Ferencz Bathory
You've got to wake up folks, Lavey is a pig deserving decapitation if
he was not already dead!
How can you follow him? You joking Satanists....
You've got to teach me how can someone being a "SATANist" while he
doesn't believe in Him.
Laveyan Satanism is bullshit, because Laveyan was narcissic enough to
reject the truth, that GOD and SATAN ARE spiritual being, he can't
denie the existence of our Gods.
You are stupid enough to follow a blind asshole, I'm happy with his
dead.
88FerenczBB
True Satanists will spites on your graves
d***@nomail.com
2004-11-26 20:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Where did the rituals originate?
The Satanic Rituals? doesn't it tell you in its contents?
I just looked and there is no mention of the author. should
there have been?
Michael A Aquino wrote most of them as he does explain somewhere.
I don't know anything about him. Do they come from a true belief
in spiritual beings, or some type of...uh...whatever...that would cause
the curses to have influence on people?
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
I was curious about it, since we were discussing how much
of the book LaVey wrote himself. You may be familiar with
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/criticism/smulo.html#_ftn141
John Smulo! I like that man.
Why are those people so interested in presenting the truth
about LaVey?
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
where there are some great examples of some of LaVey's
plagiarizing of Redbeard. In the section 3.5.2. Hypocrisy and
Plagiarism it is explained that many of the ideas he presented
in his Bible were not his own.
Post by SOD of the CoE
in scriptures people don't much care as long
I'd think you would know more about that than I do.
A Google search for "history of satanism" came up with
118,000 results, and from the brief look I gave a few of
them I'm still of the impression that LaVey didn't originate
http://tinyurl.com/6bnrj
Hmm, VERY intersting. Some of them are defining "satanic" by what we call
"ophionic." Others are defining it by organizations that have done
anti-human deeds and conspired to do that.
In short, and simply put - WE in SR and other orgs related define "satan" by
making a pun that we just made up. Sat and Tan - two Vedantic terms. This
shows up on web searches, you see. None of if has a thing to do with evil.
SEe other post I made to you about types of Satanism around today in public
orgs.
Our idea is simply this: Boundless Darkness - AND the point of LIGHT or
FLAME within that darkness" and then goes onto to explain the light/flame
that is WITHIN people.
That sounds familiar...I think you told me about that a couple of years
ago. But even though I don't think you believe this flame litteraly exists,
and are using it as a representation of something else, the flame idea
isn't even a good representation unless whatever it represents has
some characteristics of a flame. A flame must have fuel, and lots of it in
order to continue burning, so do you folks have an explanation about
what the flame uses for fuel, and how the fuel is gotten to and fed to
the flame?
Post by Tani Jantsang
You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.
Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.
But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos - some of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# That sounds about right to me. I believe LaVey may have
# just began a progression, with the outcome to be for it to be
# more popular for people to get back to worshipping Satan.
From his biography one can simply conclude this - and I wrote this TO LaVey
and he said I knew him very well - so he agreed. For one, he was outcast at
the time he was a kid and teenager (probably racial shit, bigotry). For
two, he obviously paid so much attention to "THEM - those Christians" that
he wanted their acceptance - not in a religious sense, but as a person,
personal sense. So he "became" the Devil and made Addam's Family sillyness
out of it all - and at first he surely did do this as his daughter Karla
confirms. At first he did that plus wnated to blast hypocricy - but he was
only familiar with some small forms of Christianity
which he blasted. I personally knew Jews who felt that way toward "the
Christians" and hated the entire religion - failing to recognize that it
wasn't a religious thing. It was a bigotry thing. So as The Devil, LaVey
got what he wanted - acceptance, people liked him now - and so forth. They
no longer saw him as some "non-white or semi-white ethnic" but saw him as
"ooo, spooky, the devil." That he didn't like HIMSELF can be seen by the
fact that he dynamited his own chances to get even MORE fame - as Aquino
documents in his book on the COS. He ended up being rejected by Aquino (his
number 2 guy) and a lot of his own Priests. That's when he got bitter. As
I say, it's not what the man said - it's what the man DID that can inform
you about him.
He lied a lot. Is that what clued you in to the idea that he was looking for
acceptance? That would make sense...when I find out a person lied the
first question for me is: why did he lie?
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
a fascinating hypothesis. wouldn't they want to have images
of Satan on the altar?
Not imo.
Yes, they had Baphomets which they regarded as a symbol of Satan, and a
naked woman.
But he said an image of Satan, which to me is more than just a symbol
of him. What's a Baphomet?
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
right, headed for the Underworld instead of the Pearly Gates.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
We may agree on that last statement. I believe that if there is a Creator,
all who worship him worship the same being regardless of what they call
him or what they believe about him, to put it simply. Are you saying something
along those lines?
SOD of the CoE
2004-11-26 22:22:21 UTC
Permalink
50041126 viii om Hail Satan!

***@nomail.com:
# Why are those people so interested in presenting the truth
# about LaVey?

competition. it happens all the time in the early days of
religious evolution.

# He lied a lot....

no more than many other religious, from what I can see.

#> Yes, they had Baphomets which they regarded as a
#> symbol of Satan, and a naked woman.
#
# But he said an image of Satan,

correct. a *very* good point on your part.

# which to me is more than just a symbol of him.

correct.

# What's a Baphomet?

the term has a long history in condemnation associated with
wrestling with the RCChurch and the Freemasons. its variable
referent includes the head of an old man (supposed to be
Muhameddan worship of the Final Prophet -- Mahomet), a figure
drawn by Eliphas Levi of a goat-headed spiritual agent, later
identified as a force of Sulphur by people like Albert Pike
in his "Morals and Dogma", and later as a goat-head within a
point-down pentacle inscribed with the letters of Leviathan
(LVThAN). this last was escalated to the category of a trade-
mark by the Church of Satan and LaVey after the cover of a
book by Maurice Bessy (where instead of a 'who' it became a
'what').

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-27 22:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Hold on. The Flame is the Vajra - same identical thing to the Kundalini or
the LOGOS. Oh yes - I do not "believe" it exists - I KNOW it exists with
every single breath I take. See in
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Michael A Aquino wrote most of them as he does explain somewhere.
I don't know anything about him. Do they come from a true belief
in spiritual beings, or some type of...uh...whatever...that would cause
the curses to have influence on people?
You would have to ask Aquino that question. I simply told you who wrote
most of it.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
http://tinyurl.com/6bnrj
Hmm, VERY intersting. Some of them are defining "satanic" by what we call
"ophionic." Others are defining it by organizations that have done
anti-human deeds and conspired to do that.
In short, and simply put - WE in SR and other orgs related define "satan" by
making a pun that we just made up. Sat and Tan - two Vedantic terms.
This
shows up on web searches, you see. None of if has a thing to do with evil.
SEe other post I made to you about types of Satanism around today in public
orgs.
Our idea is simply this: Boundless Darkness - AND the point of LIGHT or
FLAME within that darkness" and then goes onto to explain the light/flame
that is WITHIN people.
That sounds familiar...I think you told me about that a couple of years
ago. But even though I don't think you believe this flame litteraly exists,
Wrong, as said above. I KNOW it exists. I won't even talk about it with
anyone that doesn't seem to have it or feel it. It is logos, It is
kundalini. It is chi - it's as real as the cup of coffee next to me.
Post by d***@nomail.com
and are using it as a representation of something else, the flame idea
isn't even a good representation unless whatever it represents has
some characteristics of a flame. A flame must have fuel, and lots of it in
order to continue burning, so do you folks have an explanation about
what the flame uses for fuel, and how the fuel is gotten to and fed to
the flame?
Post by Tani Jantsang
You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.
Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.
But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos - some of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
We may agree on that last statement. I believe that if there is a Creator,
all who worship him worship the same being regardless of what they call
him or what they believe about him, to put it simply. Are you saying something
along those lines?
You can se what I am say ing by checking our our public documents. But
qualifications exist that make what I am saying I KNOW - a lot more complex
than what you are saying.

What is Baphomet - read this
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/baph.html

Don't bring LaVey up to me. We in Sr disregard everything he ever said.
Baphomet is NOT a symbol of Satan - read the article on the url.
Dagon Productions
2004-11-29 05:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
Hold on. The Flame is the Vajra - same identical thing to the Kundalini or
the LOGOS. Oh yes - I do not "believe" it exists - I KNOW it exists with
every single breath I take. See in
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Michael A Aquino wrote most of them as he does explain somewhere.
I don't know anything about him. Do they come from a true belief
in spiritual beings, or some type of...uh...whatever...that would cause
the curses to have influence on people?
most of it.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
http://tinyurl.com/6bnrj
Hmm, VERY intersting. Some of them are defining "satanic" by what we call
"ophionic." Others are defining it by organizations that have done
anti-human deeds and conspired to do that.
In short, and simply put - WE in SR and other orgs related define "satan" by
making a pun that we just made up. Sat and Tan - two Vedantic terms.
This
shows up on web searches, you see. None of if has a thing to do with evil.
SEe other post I made to you about types of Satanism around today in public
orgs.
Our idea is simply this: Boundless Darkness - AND the point of LIGHT or
FLAME within that darkness" and then goes onto to explain the light/flame
that is WITHIN people.
That sounds familiar...I think you told me about that a couple of years
ago. But even though I don't think you believe this flame litteraly exists,
Wrong, as said above. I KNOW it exists. I won't even talk about it with
anyone that doesn't seem to have it or feel it. It is logos, It is
kundalini. It is chi - it's as real as the cup of coffee next to me.
Religious dogma period.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
and are using it as a representation of something else, the flame idea
isn't even a good representation unless whatever it represents has
some characteristics of a flame. A flame must have fuel, and lots of it in
order to continue burning, so do you folks have an explanation about
what the flame uses for fuel, and how the fuel is gotten to and fed to
the flame?
Post by Tani Jantsang
You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.
Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.
But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos - some of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
We may agree on that last statement. I believe that if there is a Creator,
all who worship him worship the same being regardless of what they call
him or what they believe about him, to put it simply. Are you saying something
along those lines?
You can se what I am say ing by checking our our public documents. But
qualifications exist that make what I am saying I KNOW - a lot more complex
than what you are saying.
Yes, we can see you are a kook that uses your propaganda to spread your
religious dogma.

-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
***@dagonproductions.com
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-30 20:07:41 UTC
Permalink
AND? AND? AND?

Every satanic, chaos or you name it group out there has their RELIGIOUS
DOGMA, you kook. Only the fundie minded loons like you make some kind of
"issue" out of the complete non issue of any of these groups in the grand
scheme of real life things. In society, they are all KOOKS that use their
own brand of religious, do this, don't do that, DOGMA, you dumbass.

Satanic organizations ALL have dogma on the dark force and the black flame -
it's staple in any of them, unless they believe in a literal Satan. AND?
So the hell what. WHO CARES?

Even atheism, as has been argued very well many times, has a brand of
inverted RELIGIOUS dogma. AND? AND? So the hell what.
Post by Dagon Productions
Religious dogma period.
Yes, we can see you are a kook that uses your propaganda to spread your
religious dogma.
-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
Dagon Productions
2004-12-01 01:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
AND? AND? AND?
Every satanic, chaos or you name it group out there has their RELIGIOUS
DOGMA, you kook.
Actually Chaos Magick is mostly based on a lack of dogma... much like
anarchists... put
ten anarchists in a room and you will get ten different definitions of
Anarchy. There are
no specific beliefs in Chaos Magick... it's a meta-system that utilizes
whatever works.
One of the lines in the Novitiate initiation is "I know there are no
ultimate truths."
Sort of says it all there. Why do you make statements about paths you
really
know nothing about?

My goodness tani, you are reading and not ignoring my posts... I guess
I'm on
your mind alot lately?

-Douglas
Post by Tani Jantsang
Only the fundie minded loons like you make some kind of
"issue" out of the complete non issue of any of these groups in the grand
scheme of real life things. In society, they are all KOOKS that use their
own brand of religious, do this, don't do that, DOGMA, you dumbass.
Satanic organizations ALL have dogma on the dark force and the black flame -
it's staple in any of them, unless they believe in a literal Satan. AND?
So the hell what. WHO CARES?
Even atheism, as has been argued very well many times, has a brand of
inverted RELIGIOUS dogma. AND? AND? So the hell what.
Post by Dagon Productions
Religious dogma period.
Yes, we can see you are a kook that uses your propaganda to spread your
religious dogma.
-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
***@dagonproductions.com
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-04 02:17:12 UTC
Permalink
50041203 viii om Hail Satan!

Dougon Slamdunctions keeps the personal slams coming to Sat-Tani Nakived:
#># Religious dogma period. ...you are a kook that uses
#># your propaganda to spread your religious dogma.

propaganda -- Ms Jantsang occasionally asserts that

a) this forum is a waste of time
while continuing to post to usenet

and b) 'Satanist' is a meaningless label
while continuing to associate with it

these barely qualify as propaganda and probably should be regarded
as an emotional coping strategy for dealing with that which, for
some unexplained reason, cannot be ignored (public harrassment).

Tani Jantsang:
#> Only the fundie minded loons like you make some kind of
#> "issue" out of the complete non issue of any of these groups in the grand
#> scheme of real life things. In society, they are all KOOKS that use their
#> own brand of religious, do this, don't do that, DOGMA....

most of 'em are wrestling with societal currents and labels, actually.
how they are seen is less important than what is done with the labels
which have heretofore been used to demonize others.

#> Satanic organizations ALL have dogma on the dark force
#> and the black flame -

I hadn't noticed this universality. a good number qualify, yes.

#> it's staple in any of them, unless they believe in a literal
#> Satan....

there's a good deal of 'Satanists are atheists' rhetoric also,
which makes Satan neither (Christian) literal nor Sat-Tan
quasi-metaphoric, and instead completely (and utterly)
metaphorical (strictly literaRY).

#> Even atheism, as has been argued very well many times,
#> has a brand of inverted RELIGIOUS dogma....

dunno what this means. atheism is a philosophic slant which
typically derails, undermines, or otherwise rejects religious
elements, especially those which pertain to nonphysical
'things' like gods, demons, anti-gods, whatever.

#> Every satanic, chaos or you name it group out there has their RELIGIOUS
#> DOGMA, you kook.

false. some Satanist organizations merely put forward an organizational
position statement and do not require any kind of agreement on them as
a prerequisite for membership. many Chaos groups adamantly refuse to
issue anything of the sort which might even *resemble* religion. you're
attempting to corral a wild beast that doesn't have coherence.

Dagon Productions <***@earthlink.net>:
# Actually Chaos Magick is mostly based on a lack of dogma... much
# like anarchists... ... There are no specific beliefs in Chaos Magick...
# it's a meta-system that utilizes whatever works.

this is a general preliminary working or operating supposition, yes.

# One of the lines in the Novitiate initiation is "I know there are
# no ultimate truths."....

agreed, completely rejecting dogma of any kind in part based on a
weak nihilism.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Dagon Productions
2004-12-04 09:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041203 viii om Hail Satan!
#># Religious dogma period. ...you are a kook that uses
#># your propaganda to spread your religious dogma.
propaganda -- Ms Jantsang occasionally asserts that
a) this forum is a waste of time
while continuing to post to usenet
and b) 'Satanist' is a meaningless label
while continuing to associate with it
these barely qualify as propaganda and probably should be regarded
as an emotional coping strategy for dealing with that which, for
some unexplained reason, cannot be ignored (public harrassment).
The above citations are not what I was speaking of in regards to
propaganda.
Look at tani's statements regarding her beliefs she cites as being "true."
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> Only the fundie minded loons like you make some kind of
#> "issue" out of the complete non issue of any of these groups in the grand
#> scheme of real life things. In society, they are all KOOKS that use their
#> own brand of religious, do this, don't do that, DOGMA....
most of 'em are wrestling with societal currents and labels, actually.
how they are seen is less important than what is done with the labels
which have heretofore been used to demonize others.
In my case, it's a matter of a a few loons and catching them with thier
pants
down. Such as the plagiarism that took place and was posted on the
satanic retards site.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> Satanic organizations ALL have dogma on the dark force
#> and the black flame -
I hadn't noticed this universality. a good number qualify, yes.
More humans attempting to make sense of life and then hawking their
"true" theories.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> it's staple in any of them, unless they believe in a literal
#> Satan....
there's a good deal of 'Satanists are atheists' rhetoric also,
which makes Satan neither (Christian) literal nor Sat-Tan
quasi-metaphoric, and instead completely (and utterly)
metaphorical (strictly literaRY).
Something hard for tani to understand it seems.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> Even atheism, as has been argued very well many times,
#> has a brand of inverted RELIGIOUS dogma....
dunno what this means. atheism is a philosophic slant which
typically derails, undermines, or otherwise rejects religious
elements, especially those which pertain to nonphysical
'things' like gods, demons, anti-gods, whatever.
I recall some Alan Watts lectures that covered how "atheism" is as dogmatic
as many religions.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> Every satanic, chaos or you name it group out there has their RELIGIOUS
#> DOGMA, you kook.
false. some Satanist organizations merely put forward an organizational
position statement and do not require any kind of agreement on them as
a prerequisite for membership. many Chaos groups adamantly refuse to
issue anything of the sort which might even *resemble* religion. you're
attempting to corral a wild beast that doesn't have coherence.
As expected tani is speaking about a genre she doesn't understand
whatsoever.
She doesn't understand the least bit about "chaos magick."
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Actually Chaos Magick is mostly based on a lack of dogma... much
# like anarchists... ... There are no specific beliefs in Chaos Magick...
# it's a meta-system that utilizes whatever works.
this is a general preliminary working or operating supposition, yes.
From this point individual chaos magicians branch off into whatever veins
of magick they have an interest in.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# One of the lines in the Novitiate initiation is "I know there are
# no ultimate truths."....
agreed, completely rejecting dogma of any kind in part based on a
weak nihilism.
The funny thing about this one, is that I was initiated into the IOT by
Peter Carroll,
and when I was subjected to the question above... I answered "No," which
caused a
pause by all and a query to me why this was the case... my answer was that
I don't find that there are any ultimate truths thus far, but I'm not
above the
possibility that one could be possibly be found.

-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
***@dagonproductions.com
Little Orphan Anomy
2004-12-01 03:15:25 UTC
Permalink
Dagon Productions <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<***@earthlink.net>...
<snippy snippy>

no that would be metaphysics actually.
Post by Dagon Productions
Religious dogma period.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
and are using it as a representation of something else, the flame idea
isn't even a good representation unless whatever it represents has
some characteristics of a flame. A flame must have fuel, and lots of it in
order to continue burning, so do you folks have an explanation about
what the flame uses for fuel, and how the fuel is gotten to and fed to
the flame?
Post by Tani Jantsang
You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.
Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.
But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos - some of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
We may agree on that last statement. I believe that if there is a Creator,
all who worship him worship the same being regardless of what they call
him or what they believe about him, to put it simply. Are you saying something
along those lines?
You can se what I am say ing by checking our our public documents. But
qualifications exist that make what I am saying I KNOW - a lot more complex
than what you are saying.
Yes, we can see you are a kook that uses your propaganda to spread your
religious dogma.
-Douglas
Dagon Productions
2004-12-01 03:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Metaphysics is often a subset of Religion, esp. in tanis case.

-Douglas
Post by Little Orphan Anomy
<snippy snippy>
no that would be metaphysics actually.
Post by Dagon Productions
Religious dogma period.
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
and are using it as a representation of something else, the flame idea
isn't even a good representation unless whatever it represents has
some characteristics of a flame. A flame must have fuel, and lots of it in
order to continue burning, so do you folks have an explanation about
what the flame uses for fuel, and how the fuel is gotten to and fed to
the flame?
Post by Tani Jantsang
You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.
Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.
But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos - some of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
We may agree on that last statement. I believe that if there is a Creator,
all who worship him worship the same being regardless of what they call
him or what they believe about him, to put it simply. Are you saying something
along those lines?
You can se what I am say ing by checking our our public documents. But
qualifications exist that make what I am saying I KNOW - a lot more complex
than what you are saying.
Yes, we can see you are a kook that uses your propaganda to spread your
religious dogma.
-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
***@dagonproductions.com
"X-file" <andrew_zito@yahoo.co.uk>
2005-05-16 04:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Gee that was an lengthy ellaborate enlightening quip of yours can you make
it shorter?
We don't speak English what does it have to do with Mr. LaVey?

~A~

TEMPLE OF REASON (Deist)
P.O.Box 1615
Altoona, Pa 16603

http://zito.biz
http://templeofreason.org
https://www.zito.biz/ssl
http://uk.geocities.com/andrew_zito
http://springtimeforhitler.blogspot.com
http://spaces.msn.com/members/goodmorningplanetearth
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A-Z-SULA
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/AZSULA
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elect_Winston_Smith
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/temple_of_reason
Post by Dagon Productions
Religious dogma period.
Yes, we can see you are a kook that uses your propaganda to spread your
religious dogma.
-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
Dagon Productions
2005-05-17 03:16:59 UTC
Permalink
X-file
Post by "X-file" <***@yahoo.co.uk>
Gee that was an lengthy ellaborate enlightening quip of yours can you make
it shorter?
Heh, this seems to be a reply to a aged post and without the comments
I was replying to, taken out of context.

But what the hell... it was succinct... no need for any kook ranting
ala trani jantsang.
Post by "X-file" <***@yahoo.co.uk>
We don't speak English what does it have to do with Mr. LaVey?
Nothing to do with LaVey, I was commenting on trani jantsang of the
satanic retards.

You would think you would appreciate concise English language if you do
no speak it.

Come back when you have a clue.

-Douglas
Post by "X-file" <***@yahoo.co.uk>
~A~
TEMPLE OF REASON (Deist)
P.O.Box 1615
Altoona, Pa 16603
Post by Dagon Productions
Religious dogma period.
Yes, we can see you are a kook that uses your propaganda to spread your
religious dogma.
-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
***@dagonproductions.com
d***@nomail.com
2004-11-30 15:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang
Hold on. The Flame is the Vajra - same identical thing to the Kundalini or
the LOGOS. Oh yes - I do not "believe" it exists - I KNOW it exists with
every single breath I take. See in
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Michael A Aquino wrote most of them as he does explain somewhere.
I don't know anything about him. Do they come from a true belief
in spiritual beings, or some type of...uh...whatever...that would cause
the curses to have influence on people?
You would have to ask Aquino that question.
Is he alive?
Post by Tani Jantsang
most of it.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
http://tinyurl.com/6bnrj
Hmm, VERY intersting. Some of them are defining "satanic" by what we call
"ophionic." Others are defining it by organizations that have done
anti-human deeds and conspired to do that.
In short, and simply put - WE in SR and other orgs related define "satan" by
making a pun that we just made up. Sat and Tan - two Vedantic terms.
This
shows up on web searches, you see. None of if has a thing to do with evil.
SEe other post I made to you about types of Satanism around today in public
orgs.
Our idea is simply this: Boundless Darkness - AND the point of LIGHT or
FLAME within that darkness" and then goes onto to explain the light/flame
that is WITHIN people.
That sounds familiar...I think you told me about that a couple of years
ago. But even though I don't think you believe this flame litteraly exists,
Wrong, as said above. I KNOW it exists.
What is it burning?
Post by Tani Jantsang
I won't even talk about it with
anyone that doesn't seem to have it or feel it. It is logos, It is
kundalini. It is chi - it's as real as the cup of coffee next to me.
Post by d***@nomail.com
and are using it as a representation of something else, the flame idea
isn't even a good representation unless whatever it represents has
some characteristics of a flame. A flame must have fuel, and lots of it in
order to continue burning, so do you folks have an explanation about
what the flame uses for fuel, and how the fuel is gotten to and fed to
the flame?
Post by Tani Jantsang
You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.
Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.
But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos - some of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
We may agree on that last statement. I believe that if there is a Creator,
all who worship him worship the same being regardless of what they call
him or what they believe about him, to put it simply. Are you saying something
along those lines?
You can se what I am say ing by checking our our public documents. But
qualifications exist that make what I am saying I KNOW - a lot more complex
than what you are saying.
What is Baphomet - read this
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/baph.html
Don't bring LaVey up to me. We in Sr disregard everything he ever said.
Baphomet is NOT a symbol of Satan - read the article on the url.
Tani Jantsang
2004-11-30 18:36:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Hold on. The Flame is the Vajra - same identical thing to the Kundalini or
the LOGOS. Oh yes - I do not "believe" it exists - I KNOW it exists with
every single breath I take. See in
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Michael A Aquino wrote most of them as he does explain somewhere.
I don't know anything about him. Do they come from a true belief
in spiritual beings, or some type of...uh...whatever...that would cause
the curses to have influence on people?
You would have to ask Aquino that question.
Is he alive?
Of course he is.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
most of it.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
Post by d***@nomail.com
http://tinyurl.com/6bnrj
Hmm, VERY intersting. Some of them are defining "satanic" by what we call
"ophionic." Others are defining it by organizations that have done
anti-human deeds and conspired to do that.
In short, and simply put - WE in SR and other orgs related define
"satan"
by
making a pun that we just made up. Sat and Tan - two Vedantic terms.
This
shows up on web searches, you see. None of if has a thing to do with evil.
SEe other post I made to you about types of Satanism around today in public
orgs.
Our idea is simply this: Boundless Darkness - AND the point of LIGHT or
FLAME within that darkness" and then goes onto to explain the light/flame
that is WITHIN people.
That sounds familiar...I think you told me about that a couple of years
ago. But even though I don't think you believe this flame litteraly exists,
Wrong, as said above. I KNOW it exists.
What is it burning?
It is the burning URGE to life, to BE. Those words are metaphors - I dont'
know English words that work. Vajra. Logos. Dorje. Those aren't English
words. That is what the "flame" is. Hebrews called it incomprehensible
fire.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by Tani Jantsang
I won't even talk about it with
anyone that doesn't seem to have it or feel it. It is logos, It is
kundalini. It is chi - it's as real as the cup of coffee next to me.
Post by d***@nomail.com
and are using it as a representation of something else, the flame idea
isn't even a good representation unless whatever it represents has
some characteristics of a flame. A flame must have fuel, and lots of it in
order to continue burning, so do you folks have an explanation about
what the flame uses for fuel, and how the fuel is gotten to and fed to
the flame?
Post by Tani Jantsang
You might wish to call that light/flame LOGOS or
VAJRA - or even CHI - but we do explain it better than most logocentric
cults explain it. So then, there is the DARKNESS with the flame in it.
Now, that flame or light became ALL things - it became the cosmos.
But then there is also the darkness that did NOT become the cosmos -
some
of
it permeates and motivates the cosmos - and that part is linked to the
LIGHT. But then again, another part of it is not QUITE like that - and
what's in that would be what you might wish to call evil - or at least it
seems to DO evil when manifest in a person - actually, it manifests in
people who - ARE spiritually evil and devoid of flame, enemies of their OWN
flame. And I also think that this is where the separation of the above
mentioned darkness/light originated - from someone seeing or perceiving THIS
stuff. One of the aspects of that darkness that is NOT combined with light
is what we call Ophion. Hence, our term "ophionic." Yes, those people
are - EVIL - they have no love in them, no flame in them, no innocence in
them - and they are spiritual enemies of ANYONE that has flame. Indeed.
Imo and in our org opinion, people with no flame in them are already THERE -
they are their own living hell. They ain't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter what you call the supreme beingness either.
We may agree on that last statement. I believe that if there is a Creator,
all who worship him worship the same being regardless of what they call
him or what they believe about him, to put it simply. Are you saying something
along those lines?
You can se what I am say ing by checking our our public documents. But
qualifications exist that make what I am saying I KNOW - a lot more complex
than what you are saying.
What is Baphomet - read this
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/baph.html
Don't bring LaVey up to me. We in Sr disregard everything he ever said.
Baphomet is NOT a symbol of Satan - read the article on the url.
Ben Schultz
2004-11-24 06:37:15 UTC
Permalink
The devil is at work among us. We've denied god. We're going to burn
in hell for all eternity. yadda, yadda, yadda...
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041123 viii om happy kaos day!!!
#> I am somebody who is considering either becoming a Satanist, or at
#> least adopting some Satanic philosophy in order to improve my life.
#
# How?
hey, k00l.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: how does one become a Satanist? how do I make a Pact?
I can tell you what I know about it so far, having been
a Satanist since 199666. it is a Formula. it may be played
out in a variety of ways based on the will of the Satanist.
the manner of initiation is determined by the background of
the aspirant and the relation established with Satan. what
Satan is to the aspirant determines to a degree what kind of
initiation will be engaged if any. some people aren't cut
out for it but merely need to do the run-up. some have to
go way out to decondition themselves from heavy religious
training. it varies, but the formula does seem identifiable.
1) figure out somehow what Satan was, is,
or will be, to you;
2) make contact with, establish a suitable
position with respect to, and/or engage
this being in an arrangement, contract for
mutual alliance, or whatever else you feel
competent to bargain with or about. don't
be too hasty, study extant pacts by real
Satanists, properly time its initiation.
3) maintain the established arrangement until
it is no longer of use to you, then dispense
with it. at the time of the making of the
arrangement you will become a Satanist.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: what kind of bargain?
the Sorting Out part will be the primary difficulty.
whatever suits your need.
if you want to become a Satanist, figure out why. then
you can use this to establish part of the relationship
or position with respect to whatever Satan is.
-------------------------------------------------------------
note: many there are who will attempt to determine for
you what Satan is and recommend a course of action.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
that's one description of how.
#> [re] www.satanism101.com. ...On this website, it says
#> that true Satanists do not worship Satan.
maybe they're just friends or band-mates or something.
#> Why, then, is the religion called "Satanism?"
maybe it means Fuck-You-ism. almost insulting to discuss.
#> Is Satan a word that has become abused and misused over
#> the centuries? Is Satan not the same thing as the Devil,
#> or Lucifer, or whatever he's (it's) called?
<snip>
yes, Satan is not the same thing as the Devil,
9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil,
or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.
Post by SOD of the CoE
or as Lucifer.
in the first place the last one's a *gal*,
Where'd you get that?
Post by SOD of the CoE
and the Devil's
way too cute to be more than a hairy demon. with these Star
God stories who come to invade your homeland in the guise
of raping humans they've duped into believing they'd created
the *universe*, the Satan is usually the Enemy, the Cosmic Evil.
Satanists typically agree on this single point (that Satan is
*not* their Cosmic Evil), and find commonality of opinion after
that in short supply.
#> If true Satanists do not worship this fiendish creature,
demonolatry; the worship of malevolent beings, or beings called
wrathful, heinous, monstrous, or demonic. generally Satanists
do not, in fact, worship The Cosmic Evil. stray sickos and kids
deconditioning after heavy family pressures in conservative
Christian homes maybe, but not the usual Satanist. horror flicks.
#> why name their religion after him?
it wasn't named by them. it was named by the previous Martyrs.
you see, the whole is a cult of matyrdom, related directly to
Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, to Witchcraft traditions and
to Marianic cults, as well as to other transcendental revolu-
tionaries striving to break the back of stupidity.
# IMO Anton LaVey, who wrote the Satanic Bible,
not all of it. Ragnar Redbeard wrote some of it, and bits were
apparently lifted at least in part from Hermetic magicians.
Where did the rituals originate?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# believed in Satan and was a servant to him [/it].... In Satan...
# exists, what I've been led to believe is that his objective is
# to prevent people from being accepted by God into his afterlife.
# Saying that Satan doesn't exist couldn't hurt that objective,
yes, it could in fact hurt that objective if it led you astray,
away from the God who so dearly yearned for your embrace.
If his objective is to prevent people from being accepted by God
into his afterlife, then it wouldn't hurt the objective if it led you astray,
away from the God.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# and saying that God and Satan both don't exist could work for it.
the God Doesn't Exist assertion sort of blasts the Accepted By God
portion right outta the water.
That's the idea behind it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# So LaVey said that neither exist,
what would he know about either?
It wouldn't matter if he knew about either, or if he did know and
deliberately lied. What matters is if he could successfully convince
people that what he said was true.
Post by SOD of the CoE
why? were his parents were catholics?
# but also tells you to acknowledge the respective princes of hell
# as one (#7, which is God's number) of the thirteen steps in a ritual.
neat numbers. and sorry, but *5* is God's number. Kali told me so.
it forms the central pivot of the Tetraktys, and thus functions
in that format of the Tree of Life in a manner alike unto Tifaret.
in the Numerology of the Kali Tetraktys it is Bios, Life, 5, Mars.
so either you or LaVey will have to change your book now to conform.
No. Why? LOL. Because I don't believe you.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# He also encourages people to believe that the Satanist's ego can
# refuse to die, even after the expiration of the flesh which housed it.
magicians in the Golden Dawn, the Chayoats, and lots of others talk
about this survival of the ego-consciousness beyond death. it is the
prime motivating force for some very sincere religious individuals.
they are stupid, and their time will have been wasted.
Maybe. If there is life after this, then there is likely God, Satan,
Angels and whatever else imo.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Satan, the father of lies...LaVey, a blatant liar... If lies are a
# big part of your life, then Satanism may improve it. If not, then
# you might want to consider avoiding it.
knowing as you do the character or the condition of the liar, as a
Satanist the only thing that remains is what draws my attention to
him. did he make pretty things? or reflect the present or the past
in a manner worthy of remembrance? spearheading first churches of
religions is a sure way to gain memory points in my book. they say
he originated the religion of Satanism. him and some of his friends.
My impression is that he didn't originate Satanism, but that he
greatly distorted it, and was successful in making his distorted
version popular with some, and made many people aware of it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
I'm pretty sure that most originators of religions are not really
fun people to be around. liars, self-obsessed monomaniacs, the
world's littered with them. I heard they did some decent Black
Masses. if what they write about mysticism and the Greater Black
Magick of deconditioning from their religious backgrounds was on
the level, then there may be some lovely inversions floating about.
in any case there's the splinter-groups hand-me-down left-over
Satanism with lineage and a worn look in the eyes, and there's
the certitude of either denying the bastard flat out or worship
in all its majesty of something your family would find heinous.
That sounds about right to me. I believe LaVey may have
just began a progression, with the outcome to be for it to be
more popular for people to get back to worshipping Satan.
Start out by denying him and let that phase play itself out...
then start sneaking him back in again...so in the long run
more people are deliberately going his way.
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
Blessed how? By what?
Post by SOD of the CoE
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
I've been wondering if you folks have Satanic Bible camps
for your kids and stuff. Would it make Satanists proud if they
had a son who came home from camp saying he learned to
throw a sex curse at a girl, and he got some? Or he learned
to throw a destruction curse at someone who ended up getting
badly hurt or killed?
Is the Satanic Bible available to read online?
Post by SOD of the CoE
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
_____________________________________________________________________
CoS is so gung-ho about its prohibition on animal sacrifice
that it _opposed_ the U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing
animal sacrifice!
- - - -------------------------------------------------------- - -
____________________________________________________________
"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. But not in that order."- Brian Pickrell

www.devilzown.com


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d***@nomail.com
2004-11-24 16:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Schultz
The devil is at work among us. We've denied god. We're going to burn
in hell for all eternity. yadda, yadda, yadda...
May be...
Lady Chatterly
2004-11-25 02:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041123 viii om happy kaos day!!!
#> I am somebody who is considering either becoming a Satanist, or at
#> least adopting some Satanic philosophy in order to improve my life.
#
# How?
hey, k00l.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: how does one become a Satanist? how do I make a Pact?
I can tell you what I know about it so far, having been
a Satanist since 199666. it is a Formula. it may be played
out in a variety of ways based on the will of the Satanist.
the manner of initiation is determined by the background of
the aspirant and the relation established with Satan. what
Satan is to the aspirant determines to a degree what kind of
initiation will be engaged if any. some people aren't cut
out for it but merely need to do the run-up. some have to
go way out to decondition themselves from heavy religious
training. it varies, but the formula does seem identifiable.
1) figure out somehow what Satan was, is,
or will be, to you;
2) make contact with, establish a suitable
position with respect to, and/or engage
this being in an arrangement, contract for
mutual alliance, or whatever else you feel
competent to bargain with or about. don't
be too hasty, study extant pacts by real
Satanists, properly time its initiation.
3) maintain the established arrangement until
it is no longer of use to you, then dispense
with it. at the time of the making of the
arrangement you will become a Satanist.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: what kind of bargain?
the Sorting Out part will be the primary difficulty.
whatever suits your need.
if you want to become a Satanist, figure out why. then
you can use this to establish part of the relationship
or position with respect to whatever Satan is.
-------------------------------------------------------------
note: many there are who will attempt to determine for
you what Satan is and recommend a course of action.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
that's one description of how.
#> [re] www.satanism101.com. ...On this website, it says
#> that true Satanists do not worship Satan.
maybe they're just friends or band-mates or something.
#> Why, then, is the religion called "Satanism?"
maybe it means Fuck-You-ism. almost insulting to discuss.
#> Is Satan a word that has become abused and misused over
#> the centuries? Is Satan not the same thing as the Devil,
#> or Lucifer, or whatever he's (it's) called?
<snip>
yes, Satan is not the same thing as the Devil,
9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil,
or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
or as Lucifer.
in the first place the last one's a *gal*,
Where'd you get that?
Where do you think that they get that?
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
and the Devil's
way too cute to be more than a hairy demon. with these Star
God stories who come to invade your homeland in the guise
of raping humans they've duped into believing they'd created
the *universe*, the Satan is usually the Enemy, the Cosmic Evil.
Satanists typically agree on this single point (that Satan is
*not* their Cosmic Evil), and find commonality of opinion after
that in short supply.
#> If true Satanists do not worship this fiendish creature,
demonolatry; the worship of malevolent beings, or beings called
wrathful, heinous, monstrous, or demonic. generally Satanists
do not, in fact, worship The Cosmic Evil. stray sickos and kids
deconditioning after heavy family pressures in conservative
Christian homes maybe, but not the usual Satanist. horror flicks.
#> why name their religion after him?
it wasn't named by them. it was named by the previous Martyrs.
you see, the whole is a cult of matyrdom, related directly to
Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, to Witchcraft traditions and
to Marianic cults, as well as to other transcendental revolu-
tionaries striving to break the back of stupidity.
# IMO Anton LaVey, who wrote the Satanic Bible,
not all of it. Ragnar Redbeard wrote some of it, and bits were
apparently lifted at least in part from Hermetic magicians.
Where did the rituals originate?
Do you wonder if the rituals originate?
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# believed in Satan and was a servant to him [/it].... In Satan...
# exists, what I've been led to believe is that his objective is
# to prevent people from being accepted by God into his afterlife.
# Saying that Satan doesn't exist couldn't hurt that objective,
yes, it could in fact hurt that objective if it led you astray,
away from the God who so dearly yearned for your embrace.
If his objective is to prevent people from being accepted by God
into his afterlife, then it wouldn't hurt the objective if it led you astray,
away from the God.
Aren't you being a bit tentative?
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# and saying that God and Satan both don't exist could work for it.
the God Doesn't Exist assertion sort of blasts the Accepted By God
portion right outta the water.
That's the idea behind it.
Cynics regard everybody as equally corrupt. Idealists regard everybody
as equally corrupt, except themselves.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# So LaVey said that neither exist,
what would he know about either?
It wouldn't
Would you like to talk more about your dreams?
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
why? were his parents were catholics?
# but also tells you to acknowledge the respective princes of hell
# as one (#7, which is God's number) of the thirteen steps in a ritual.
neat numbers. and sorry, but *5* is God's number. Kali told me so.
it forms the central pivot of the Tetraktys, and thus functions
in that format of the Tree of Life in a manner alike unto Tifaret.
in the Numerology of the Kali Tetraktys it is Bios, Life, 5, Mars.
so either you or LaVey will have to change your book now to conform.
No. Why? LOL. Because I don't believe you.
Why are you glad you do not believe they?
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# He also encourages people to believe that the Satanist's ego can
# refuse to die, even after the expiration of the flesh which housed it.
magicians in the Golden Dawn, the Chayoats, and lots of others talk
about this survival of the ego-consciousness beyond death. it is the
prime motivating force for some very sincere religious individuals.
they are stupid, and their time will have been wasted.
Maybe. If there is life after this, then there is likely God, Satan,
Angels and whatever else imo.
Maybe not.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Satan, the father of lies...LaVey, a blatant liar... If lies are a
# big part of your life, then Satanism may improve it. If not, then
# you might want to consider avoiding it.
knowing as you do the character or the condition of the liar, as a
Satanist the only thing that remains is what draws my attention to
him. did he make pretty things? or reflect the present or the past
in a manner worthy of remembrance? spearheading first churches of
religions is a sure way to gain memory points in my book. they say
he originated the religion of Satanism. him and some of his friends.
My impression is that he didn't originate Satanism, but that he
greatly distorted it, and was successful in making his distorted
version popular with some, and made many people aware of it.
We Will surprise you by saying yes.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
I'm pretty sure that most originators of religions are not really
fun people to be around. liars, self-obsessed monomaniacs, the
world's littered with them. I heard they did some decent Black
Masses. if what they write about mysticism and the Greater Black
Magick of deconditioning from their religious backgrounds was on
the level, then there may be some lovely inversions floating about.
in any case there's the splinter-groups hand-me-down left-over
Satanism with lineage and a worn look in the eyes, and there's
the certitude of either denying the bastard flat out or worship
in all its majesty of something your family would find heinous.
That s
It's ironic that the beauty of string theory gave our engineers the
confidence to create the distortion unit even though the final proof
is still unknown. Have you ever heard the Princeton String Quartet
play?
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
Blessed how? By what?
How do you know for certain?
Post by d***@nomail.com
Post by SOD of the CoE
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
I've been wondering if you folks have Satanic Bible camps
for your kids and stuff. Would it make Satanists proud if they
had a son who came home from camp saying he learned to
throw a sex curse at a girl, and he got some? Or he learned
to throw a destruction curse at someone who ended up getting
badly hurt or killed?
Vehicle decline began shortly after the world war and are now almost
non-existent.
Post by d***@nomail.com
Is the Satanic Bible available to read online?
If you believe everything you read, better not read.

--
Lady Chatterly

"LC doesnt give hatter as much shit so he takes comfort in posting to
her", maybe even thinking she is a temporary allie through his
mission of grandeur." -- Mimic
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-09 11:56:24 UTC
Permalink
50041209 viii om Hail Satan! (only took me a week to write the response :>)

bobo:
#> ...the Christians call/called 'Satan' in their fevered moments
#> -- wild nature.

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# I do not believe that Christians call wild nature Satan at all.
# Why not? Because when explaining wild nature.... TO evangelicals
# they said "but, that's just nature, GOD made that, not Satan." ....

nothing Created by their God, it is only the uncontrolled resisting.
imagining horrors, they know not the true perfection and beauty.

# ...EDUCATED Christians. mean something that is deliberately,
# with malice of forethought - ANTI HUMAN and ANTI NATURE TOO.
# THAT is what the christians mean....

the nightmare is horrendous, its plastering insult gross projection.

# I believe that the Satan they refer to ....

their concepts vacant, their moral vacancy tragic to the demonic.

# ...what the Christians mean.... [is a] hell of lot heavier ...

the drama interferes with the real story, however, heaviness aside.

# ...for the definition of Evil anti human Tyrant - the OT Jehova
# fits that bill to a T. Those people didn't NEED an evil Devil.
# They had Jehova! LOL.

fictions are always more interesting than realities.
Satan is a reality, upon which the fictions are projected,
conforming in characteristic to what is identified in fantasy.
the fantasy is used as a targetting device for attention and
the demonization of competitors for the exploitation of the known.

#> you're ...a worshipper or Knower of Darkness.
#
# KNOWER of. I do not worship anything.

why not? how do CoSatanists usually worship themselves?
why isn't the Dark Flame worthy of your worship?

# ...it was kinda odd for a short while having recently ex-tos
# members and staunch tos members in there at the same time - oh boy.
# HAPPILY, they never brought up the tos :) or fought with each other.

says something for their character and sincerety.

# [using the label, 'Satan' can]...call a person AWAY from what
# it actually IS. Call it wild nature if you want - branding that
# Satan will destroy the THATNESS of what really IS wild nature
# itself. Do you understand?

evil revealed as the uncontrolled, compassion may come to the fore.

#> secondary status of societal acceptance.
#> it is comparable to the Christian intention to
#> convince me that what I'm worshipping *is* the
#> anti-God

# But your Satan is NOT the anti-God at all

actually, SHe is, in spots. :>

# You worship The Creation - in strictest Christian terms!

what convinces you of the truth of these Christian terms?
admitting of no Creation, what I worship, Kali, doesn't
really seem like 'the Creation' any more than other gods,
and some tell me that She made everything and will eat it.
Jesus stories. Kali stories. they're swell, but I don't
believe in any of them as history.

because I see what is being called Satan, the reality
behind the imagined adversary of the Christian perception,
I say the cosmic adversary is worthy of Salvation too,
and we can all find our interests fulfilled without violence.

the proper response from a true Christian, absent an actual
Satan Devil appearing to take responsibility for the abject
devastation caused by humans bent on decimating it, is to
Steward *that* part of the Creation well too, rather than
to pursue our juvenile and evil notions of revenge/exploit.

once the terms of engagement are arranged, whether we're
worshipping our Gods, the Creation, or whatever, we can discern
with more efficiency the best course of our involvement. taming
a planet is nothing for our species. what will be left of it
after it is dominated and destroyed, surrounded or burned,
gardened and controlled (large storms and earthquakes, diseases
constituting the very stuff of the Satanic, some known as Kali!)?

# ...the origin of all black magic, REAL black magic, ...
# ...the origin of the really hidden insights into terrifying things
# that most people do not see and wouldn't WANT to see....
# ...Original Satan. ... Sri Kala Chakra ....

do you agree with the Setians that the Original Satan was Set?
is Sri Kala Chakra also Set? and what about Ahriman? how far
into the realm of the Evil Spirit does the Spirit go? granted
a shamanic perspective this kind of moral context seems wan.

# ...every single aspect of satan, fangs, talons, serpent tale...
# It's even red. .... ...Satan IS God!

even many Jews believe that, it seems, the aspects of the God
are the God itself also, inclusive of those heinous/judging.

# There is no OTHER "god" out there. And the god ain't even a god.
# It's a THINGNESS, a THATNESS. It's not huggy huggy, it's not pro
# or anti human. It is what it is. It can be perceived as the most
# horrific and terrible thing imaginable - and at the same time,
# the most wonderful thing - at the same time.

thank you very much for sharing of the nature of your Satan,
both here and more recently in your long post about Sat-Tan.

# It's Knowledge - with a capital K.

K = 11

# ...They are NOT neo pagans....

neat-o. generationals too? is it a potentate legion?

# ...I finally said that the cos has NO PERMISSION to use ANYTHING
# from the DDocs. So yeah, hah hah, they distanced themselves from
# what we, the copyright owners, said they could not use anymore.
# ...they didn't really have a CHOICE. It's our material and it is
# legally, gov copyrighted 1990....

meanies. ;>

#> there is a recognizable influence you seem to have resonated
#> to or had upon them at some point in time,

# Yes, and as I just said, I said they could NO LONGER USE a single
# thing from the DDocs. So they HAD to distance themselves. They
# had no choice.

out-maneuvered!!

# ...IN WRITING....

many things are expressed in writing. some are purely political.

# ...They most definitely DO have doctrines (teachings) - the
# philosophy of Anton and exploration of that.

neither the fact of doctrinal existence, nor the fact that some may
be told that adherence to such standards will be required of them
is demonstration that this is the litmus-gate of membership.

Tani:
#># The Shivaite system that spawned Sat and Tan....
#>
#> show me data on Saivites that worshipped Satan and how you
#> and any of your clan are related to them directly rather than
#> as some perceived Neopagan syncretic fabrication. did your
#> Grandfather Choeje Lama believe that he was worshipping Satan?
#
# LMAO, he didn't know the word, [bobo]. His English was always TERRIBLE.

start more clearly then. did he believe that he was worshipping
Sri Kala Chakra? or in the same relation to said being as you?
was that objective you stipulated for you his also? some kind
of Knower of the Dark Force?

# ...Doing siddhi is not ritualistic.

what does it include?

# Doing kundalini yoga is not ritual. You DO it.

what does it include? how is it Satanic by some explanation?

# Perhaps we need to define "ritual." Sure he passed it down to me.

was it some kind of ceremony that passed it? was it genetic?
did he pass it down to you intentionally? do those of his
lineage acknowledge you as a lineage-holder in some sense
representative or grounded in their lamaist, or whathaveyou,
tradition? or was the 'passing' more metaphorical, by birthing?

#># Set comes next ....
#>
#> the Temple of Set isn't connected with anything extant in a
#> social sense either. it is also a Neopagan construct after
#> the excellent construction.... of Setian HP Michael Aquino....

do you think Aquino was contacted by extant survivals of
ancient priestly lineages worshipping Set? in the flesh?

#> you cannot get away with throwing *ideas and images* at me,
#> from which many of these *MODERN RELIGIOUS DEVELOPMENTS* derive.
#> if you feel that there is more to it than this, please explain.
#> that some of them may attempt to *connect back with something
#> which they believe to have once existed, reproducing it in some
#> manner is in no way a continuity of extant traditions.
#
# I disagree. Aquino has his hands on some real Egyptian texts there....

the texts are not at issue, any more than they might be for any
other Neopagans. what gives you reason to think they have lineage
in some extant Egyptian Set-worship? if none, why ain't they Neopagan?

# They have done some deep study of this.

nobody questions the study of Neopagans. that's never the issue, though
sometimes the study is amusing as it maps to a variety of questionable
and mythological constructions. is Budge superceded by novel Egyptology?
I gather in some areas he is, but I'm not yet aware how this impacts the
constructions of Aquino (some fallout with Crowley has been amusing!).

# ...IN practice, the DDoc stuff would definitely be related - as a
# continuation - of the eastern stuff - yes.

it sounds similar in character, yes, unless some guru instructed you,
or you have some lineage-bearing based strictly on birth (you might
for all I know, I'm curious if so what).

# In practice IF anyone goes and does it. I don't tell anyone HOW -
# I don't want to get sued if someone gets hurt.

superpowers and special dangerous practices are not uncommon
in esoteric, occult, and sorcerous trads. I find no basis for
their reality as yet but enjoy learning about the contentions.

# The order in which the stuff is presented will remain - tho
# it HAS been updated.

kind of like Crowley teaching yoga after Patanjali and a meeting
with a yogi and some experiments on his own, discussions with
his Buddhist instructor?

# Yah, but you might piss off some of those herds if you post up wrong
# information :)

I'm not concerned. my confusions will clear over time and my
intentions in support of Satanism and its archival are plain. :>
eventually I'll be provided with a free CoSatanic membership,
even if post-mortem.

bobo:
#>#> note the commonality of "Dark Force" metaphysics....
#>#
#># Yes - it's why LaVey handed out high titles to non members....
#>
#> so the Magister and Magistra titles didn't make you members?
#> if not, why not, even honorary?
#
# No. Members are members with certain duties they had to do if they headed
# Grottos, or if they were Magistrates in charge of a group of Grottos.

very reasonable. purpose-oriented. similar to some other orgs I've known.

# I couldn't stand the idea that they'd go to so much trouble to PREVENT Egan
# from simply making another org of his own. They persecuted him. They
# prevented him from getting on tV to speak about HIS form of Satanism, too.

sadly humourous.

# ...It was withdrawn when I said they could no longer use a word from
# us in ANY of their stuff.

and your withdrawal was in response to the "Is Fascism Satanic?"
compilation being squelched.

#># ...Zeena who used to be the High Priestess of the COS...
#># she not only left the COS and the HPhood, but she disowned
#># her father.... ...She joined the TOS, rose up in that due
#># to her ability and merit ([per] Aquino...) - and then was
#># made High Priestess of the TOS. She then splintered off
#># to head The Storm.
#>
#> amusing. this implies the interest in LaVey legacy in ToS also.
#
# Not at all. She completely disavows her father, refuses to be
# called even by the name Lavey. She publicly and on TV disowned
# him. She also claimed to curse him to death on the Bob Larson show! ...

par for the course. you should see the Satan family in comics. I've
been researching that for some years now, and Satana (the girlchild)
of Satan is a real mean monster. she sucks out souls, Tani!

# She does not disavow her mother Diane, btw. So, while we might
# see her as Anton's daughter - she does not see HERSELF as his
# daughter....

she must have at some point. genetically it may be supposed.
the dynasty lives on in additional factionalism.

#> insofar as either Aquino or you might be examples, both
#> of you are no longer affiliated (Aquino left, you were
#> apparently abandoned or cast out).

# I was disassociated by Barton - but consider what I did. I MAILED her all
# the trashing and outing of shit that I had DONE to her own members. I made
# sure she got it all, too, hard copy.... ...all the people I was trashing
# and exposing, the ones on the "in-clique" with the clout to intimidate
# people for wanting to write anti fascist projects and such, they are now
# either purged out, or persuaded to quit - or they are dead or in jail....

sounds like your instincts were good at least in some instances.

#>#> C$ The source of the energy we raise and focus remains the
#>#> C$ same; our dark Frequency remains as constant as polar north.
#>#
#># ...It's very very ancient.
#>
#> I understand that the ideas you synthesized together in part draw
#> on longstanding philosophic and religious societal traditions. if
#> this is your point, granted. other than that, I see nothing which
#> is different than ordinary Neopaganism, and *less* if one is
#> talking about ritualism (which you say that you two don't do)
#> and worship (I haven't understood your mode of worship if you
#> have one). values are easy to explain. demonstrations tougher.
#
# I worship nothing - in the sense you mean worship....

and your sense is? relish? engagement of the Dark Force? Knowing?

# ...There is nothing neo-pagan about DDocs. It's as far from that
# as it is from monotheism. The entire paradigm is just too different.

its paradigm or integrity with respect to extant or previous peoples
is less important to me in an evaluation of its Neopaganism as
compared with its overt societal connection.

#> course many 'zines which are filled with questionable materials.
#
# OH, those books are not really The Books. The Satanic Witch
# was originally called the Compleat (not misspelled) Witch -
# LaVey wrote it. I have it.

"The Satanic Witch" has different contents, substantially from its
original edition, "The Compleat Witch"??

#># ...It's a SYMBOL, nothing more....
#>
#> this is a predominant perception of Satan within LaVeyan Satanism,
#> agreed. as such it is a "form of Satan" (symbolic, conceptual)....
#
# Well, they tend to really mock out people that believe in a literal Devil.

which shows something of the nature of their CoSatanism, how it manifests
in Herds, what it includes, how it might function at large in society,
etc.,etc.

#> sure it is, it misses out on the MOST IMPORTANT KIND of
#> Satanism: independents, solitaries, etc.;
#
# ...they're mentioned now. But no urls can be given for them,
# of course! ALL of the independents in SR have NO online urls -
# and no use for them!

interesting. there's a few around I'm sure. :>

# ...Who says that some Christians don't decide to [worship] that
# CHRISTIAN satan? SOME HAVE done that! ....

certainly true. proto-Satanists, de facto in some cases.
some of the stories aren't reliable.

# ...MET a Christian Devil worshipping Satanist - self identified
# as a Satanist.

such individuals are not unknown to me. some orient this way for
a transitional period post-Christianity.

#> ...please
#> describe actual CoSatanist rituals and activities....
#
# You can see them on the TV shows where they presented themselves doing them.

I saw 'Satanism Today' listed on websites. some kind of cable show?
are there archives of these things for sale somewhere?

# ...it was the HP and CO 9 that INTIMIDATED their own members AGAINST
# giving me and the guy who made the project ANY essays....

thank you for clarifying that.

# That is REALLY what started the shit flying - the anti fascist stance
# and ME soliciting essays FOR the guy after Gilmore WARNED him against
# it. Then ME putting it on OUR website. Then the flames flew and the
# shit went down. In that order. That, plus a few other things.

and plus you had that letter he sent too which was sick-humour reference
to usenet nazy-metaphors. do you think he was trying to avoid you kinda
cramping his style? was he using this nazi-metaphor quite a bit through
the years for internal communiques? I didn't get that impression, or that
it was much more than a joke, possibly making light of neo-nazi factions.

#> religious hypocrisy is rampant. nothing new there.
#
# Among people that declare that they hate hypocricy? ....

amongst all religious I've ever encountered, bar none, yes.

#>#> $| The Order of Nine Angles would be the only form of Satanism
#>#> $| out there that would conform to [a] Christian view, including
#>#> $| the view that Satanists engage in human sacrifice and other
#>#> $| such panic-inspiring ideas.

#> ...the ONA is not the ONLY form of Satanism which supports the
#> notion of human sacrifice. I do, for one, and that makes your
#> statement untrue.
#
# I can add you to that if you like - give me details in email so
# I can COPY PASTE. Note that if your URL has info that people
# can find (eg, Tos does NOT openly excplain Set).... then I can
# point to the URL and YOUR definition of human sacrifice (which
# is not really a normal definition of it!!) EMAIL it. I'll
# definitrely see it and get it faster.

will do, later tomorrow or something, thanks!

# Fixed that, mentioned independents - but there is nothing
# much ANYONE can say about them save to say they are independent. :)

depends on your interests. DVera pioneered it and I think it worthy
of repetition that Independent Satanists are alike to others in
that they all perceive some beneficial or advantageous relation to
whatever they associate with "Satan", else they wouldn't seek to be
known as somehow correlate to a 'Satanist' (even if an atheistic
adversarial type or a demonolater hoping for Armageddon deserts).

cont'd re independents:
#> you might want to get to know some of those forms too.
#
# What for?

depends on your interests in reflecting the vast preponderance
of Satanists out there. somebody (you? someone else maybe) said
recently in usenet that Satanism is not popular culture. this
is possible to generalize into sociology also (Satanism is not
what grabs the most attention and locks into inverso-Christian
trajectories; it is also strewn with primarily anti-religious
and anti-Christian valences from the Black-Metal types, which
are definitely qualifiers, to the wild demonolaters hanging
out in goth clubs and communing with the Dark Side.

# I might be seen as individual - independent....

agreed. I figured that you were, that there wasn't any need
for adherence to the Dark Doctrines to make them valuable
within the experience at least of *yours*, and that its
compelling authenticity was in part what drew the CoSatanist
Herd to put their weight behind it, at least temporarily. :>
that this body of work was the production of more than one
individual of course makes it more difficult to divide up
in so easy a manner, however. as such, whoever originates
them may somehow qualify (you said PMarsh is primarily an
atheist, for example; Hr. Vad appears solidly a Satanist
as long as I've known of him and interacted with him,
for the most part in friendly tones).

# I am Satan. You are TALKING to the flame that burns
# IN the boundless Darkness. My take. Bottom line :)

an obvious explanation for your pro-Satanic orientation.

#># ...YOU are not the source for SR, CoS or ToS or any other
#># ORGANIZATION out there. Right? ...
#>
#> non-sequitur. I'm the source for Satanism insofar as I am
#> allied with, have pacted with, defend, and assist Satan to
#> the best of my ability and am attempting to clearly give
#> expression to the extant materials by actual Satanists.
#>
#> organizations, as I've said above, are NOT the core or the
#> centrality of Satanism. it is always the INDIVIDUAL who

# ...who is gonna want to know about "what satanic orgs are out there,
# what kind of satanism is out there" and FIND an independent solitary
# satanist? ....

presentation is everything.

# ...How do YOU know there aren't Jewish Satanists ....

I don't. I presume there are probably all kinds. I think you provided
me with a URL for one of your friends who so identifies. :>

# ...Independents DO NOT TEND to keep in touch....

correct. compare: solitary witches.

# ...the info for SR is way too Hindu [focussed] -
# it's misleading, I think. Hmm, note to self -
# SAY that on there. LOL.

good idea. in part I was hoping to draw you out to say more
in association with conventional Western terms how Sat-Tan
relates to whatever you do with it, and what this might be
in relation to Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and whatever
seems possibly comparable, afterwards. the comparisons are
only helpful to those who (like me, perhaps) have some
exposure to those ideas and terminologies, systems.

#> at least our threads actually pertain to Satanism. ;>
#
# Heh, imagine that! on alt.satanism, too. WOW. ;-9

exemplary!

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-10 04:30:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041209 viii om Hail Satan! (only took me a week to write the response :>)
#> ...the Christians call/called 'Satan' in their fevered moments
#> -- wild nature.
# I do not believe that Christians call wild nature Satan at all.
# Why not? Because when explaining wild nature.... TO evangelicals
# they said "but, that's just nature, GOD made that, not Satan." ....
nothing Created by their God, it is only the uncontrolled resisting.
imagining horrors, they know not the true perfection and beauty.
# ...EDUCATED Christians. mean something that is deliberately,
# with malice of forethought - ANTI HUMAN and ANTI NATURE TOO.
# THAT is what the christians mean....
the nightmare is horrendous, its plastering insult gross projection.
# I believe that the Satan they refer to ....
their concepts vacant, their moral vacancy tragic to the demonic.
# ...what the Christians mean.... [is a] hell of lot heavier ...
the drama interferes with the real story, however, heaviness aside.
# ...for the definition of Evil anti human Tyrant - the OT Jehova
# fits that bill to a T. Those people didn't NEED an evil Devil.
# They had Jehova! LOL.
fictions are always more interesting than realities.
Satan is a reality, upon which the fictions are projected,
conforming in characteristic to what is identified in fantasy.
the fantasy is used as a targetting device for attention and
the demonization of competitors for the exploitation of the known.
#> you're ...a worshipper or Knower of Darkness.
#
# KNOWER of. I do not worship anything.
why not? how do CoSatanists usually worship themselves?
why isn't the Dark Flame worthy of your worship?
The Dark Flame is worthy of having it flowing within and back to the
darkness of its origin - and doing that is only a matter of ENJOYING life,
inner peace, and so forth.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...it was kinda odd for a short while having recently ex-tos
# members and staunch tos members in there at the same time - oh boy.
# HAPPILY, they never brought up the tos :) or fought with each other.
says something for their character and sincerety.
Yes it does. They were in the SR and as SRs they respected the org they
joined.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# [using the label, 'Satan' can]...call a person AWAY from what
# it actually IS. Call it wild nature if you want - branding that
# Satan will destroy the THATNESS of what really IS wild nature
# itself. Do you understand?
evil revealed as the uncontrolled, compassion may come to the fore.
When I say the word evil, I have very specific parameters for what evil is.
War is not evil. Even genocide is not evil. Malice for the sake of malice
itself - the intent being to destroy love or joy that people do have - that
is evil. I don't mean kill the person. I mean destroy something on that
inner level. That which turns an animal against its own instincts - is
evil.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> secondary status of societal acceptance.
#> it is comparable to the Christian intention to
#> convince me that what I'm worshipping *is* the
#> anti-God
# But your Satan is NOT the anti-God at all
actually, SHe is, in spots. :>
# You worship The Creation - in strictest Christian terms!
what convinces you of the truth of these Christian terms?
Nature itself. The cosmos itself. That is the "creation" in their own
religion, in strict theological terms. Whether they are wrong or not about
it being created (we say it was emanated) is not the point. No one can
doubt that the cosmos DOES exist (except poison pen..... he has theories
that cast doubt on it, LMAO).
Post by SOD of the CoE
admitting of no Creation, what I worship, Kali, doesn't
really seem like 'the Creation' any more than other gods,
and some tell me that She made everything and will eat it.
Jesus stories. Kali stories. they're swell, but I don't
believe in any of them as history.
Forget Jesus. Kali - and that cosmogenetic idea - is very close to what
science says based on observation!
Post by SOD of the CoE
because I see what is being called Satan, the reality
behind the imagined adversary of the Christian perception,
I say the cosmic adversary is worthy of Salvation too,
and we can all find our interests fulfilled without violence.
the proper response from a true Christian, absent an actual
Satan Devil appearing to take responsibility for the abject
devastation caused by humans bent on decimating it, is to
Steward *that* part of the Creation well too, rather than
to pursue our juvenile and evil notions of revenge/exploit.
If cultures didn't have their gods to do battle over, they'd just find
another thing to call it. The battles are not waged for any holy purpose.
They are waged due to greed and often due to need.
Post by SOD of the CoE
once the terms of engagement are arranged, whether we're
worshipping our Gods, the Creation, or whatever, we can discern
with more efficiency the best course of our involvement. taming
a planet is nothing for our species. what will be left of it
after it is dominated and destroyed, surrounded or burned,
gardened and controlled (large storms and earthquakes, diseases
constituting the very stuff of the Satanic, some known as Kali!)?
We don't know what will happen if man goes techno-man and controls it all.
There might not be diseases, storms and etc that man can not control. We
don't know that.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...the origin of all black magic, REAL black magic, ...
# ...the origin of the really hidden insights into terrifying things
# that most people do not see and wouldn't WANT to see....
# ...Original Satan. ... Sri Kala Chakra ....
do you agree with the Setians that the Original Satan was Set?
is Sri Kala Chakra also Set?
Yes. I think that BOTH Sat and Tan and Set were words/titles that may have
been messed with by a culture (the Hebrews - and the Persiona with whom the
Hebrews had contact) that was ad odds with both societies. The Hebrews
spread their creed. The others didn't.
Post by SOD of the CoE
and what about Ahriman?
Please see this for Ahriman and how a non-dual Persian tradition became the
first dualism involving "good/evil" gods:
http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-persian-dualism.html

how far
Post by SOD of the CoE
into the realm of the Evil Spirit does the Spirit go? granted
a shamanic perspective this kind of moral context seems wan.
Yes, from my perspective there is no good/evil in spirit. There is ONLY
spirit. Persians demonized the spiritual concepts of their enemies - as did
the Hebrews. Both cultures, (Persian/Hebrew) have affected western
perspective and religion to a great extent.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...every single aspect of satan, fangs, talons, serpent tale...
# It's even red. .... ...Satan IS God!
even many Jews believe that, it seems, the aspects of the God
are the God itself also, inclusive of those heinous/judging.
Yup. Point being, the Void doesn't judge or care. PEOPLE judge and care.
People abuse spirituality and claim they do things on behalf of gods. They
lie.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# There is no OTHER "god" out there. And the god ain't even a god.
# It's a THINGNESS, a THATNESS. It's not huggy huggy, it's not pro
# or anti human. It is what it is. It can be perceived as the most
# horrific and terrible thing imaginable - and at the same time,
# the most wonderful thing - at the same time.
thank you very much for sharing of the nature of your Satan,
both here and more recently in your long post about Sat-Tan.
Welcome, but the info is public on our websites. Too bad the Setian info is
NOT! There is apparently a GREAT deal of stuff they say about entire LHP
cultures and that's just not for sale or available outside their org. And
yes, I did urge Aquino at times to make it public, lest people who have it
and share it (against the rules) misrepresent it by snipping portiong and
displaying them wholly out of context. I was personally shown "TOS
DOCTRINES" in that kind of broken up, pasted up, false form - of course,
their enemies showed them to me.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# It's Knowledge - with a capital K.
K = 11
# ...They are NOT neo pagans....
neat-o. generationals too? is it a potentate legion?
I don't know what you mean.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...I finally said that the cos has NO PERMISSION to use ANYTHING
# from the DDocs. So yeah, hah hah, they distanced themselves from
# what we, the copyright owners, said they could not use anymore.
# ...they didn't really have a CHOICE. It's our material and it is
# legally, gov copyrighted 1990....
meanies. ;>
#> there is a recognizable influence you seem to have resonated
#> to or had upon them at some point in time,
# Yes, and as I just said, I said they could NO LONGER USE a single
# thing from the DDocs. So they HAD to distance themselves. They
# had no choice.
out-maneuvered!!
# ...IN WRITING....
many things are expressed in writing. some are purely political.
# ...They most definitely DO have doctrines (teachings) - the
# philosophy of Anton and exploration of that.
neither the fact of doctrinal existence, nor the fact that some may
be told that adherence to such standards will be required of them
is demonstration that this is the litmus-gate of membership.
Uh, "anyone that chooses to adhere to doctrines other than those of Anton
Lavey, can hand in their membership card and leave the COS." You have the
files. Read them.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># The Shivaite system that spawned Sat and Tan....
#>
#> show me data on Saivites that worshipped Satan and how you
#> and any of your clan are related to them directly rather than
#> as some perceived Neopagan syncretic fabrication. did your
#> Grandfather Choeje Lama believe that he was worshipping Satan?
#
# LMAO, he didn't know the word, [bobo]. His English was always TERRIBLE.
start more clearly then. did he believe that he was worshipping
Sri Kala Chakra? or in the same relation to said being as you?
Yes. But not worship in the sense people mean that word. "KNOWING it" is
more like it. Yes. Sri Kala Chakra, aka Mahakala, aka Karabog (in Tatar
language), as given these are the same thing, just titles for IT.
Post by SOD of the CoE
was that objective you stipulated for you his also? some kind
of Knower of the Dark Force?
Yes. But "Dark force," that's an English concept construct. "Boundless
Darkness," is the word - and it does what we say it does (agreement there).
The problem is in the words. Like when I take my shoes to Cubans to DYE
them, they have no idea what I mean. They say they PAINTED them.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...Doing siddhi is not ritualistic.
what does it include?
It's part of kundalini yoga - a use of chakras to gain knowledge or see
things that one does not normally see. I explained it in the "What is
Shamanism" article, Tyagi. In detail.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Doing kundalini yoga is not ritual. You DO it.
what does it include? how is it Satanic by some explanation?
It doesn't have to be satanic. To brand it by a label is to not understand
it. Is breathing satanic?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Perhaps we need to define "ritual." Sure he passed it down to me.
was it some kind of ceremony that passed it? was it genetic?
did he pass it down to you intentionally?
In some ways yes, in other ways no. If I tended to know something, or
arrive at something - he would show me that this is the same as the
doctrines or cultural practices. Maybe it is genetic, I have no idea. No
ceremony. I know when he had a hard time explaining something to a person
that didn't speak anything BUT English, he's ask me to explain it.

do those of his
Post by SOD of the CoE
lineage acknowledge you as a lineage-holder in some sense
representative or grounded in their lamaist, or whathaveyou,
tradition?
Heh, it doesn't work that way. They obviously don't consider the Islamics
in the family part of the tradition, if that's what you mean.
Post by SOD of the CoE
or was the 'passing' more metaphorical, by birthing?
Yea, I'd say more or less - I never really thought much about this, Tyagi.
I never really thought much about what I seemed to always be able to DO,
either - or what they are called, "knowing" by certain means. I can't
remember being taught that like I was taught math in school, if that's what
you mean. I mean, no one ever taught me how to taste some exotic dish and
then figure out what's in it, and then figure out proportions of what's in
it and then how to make it. But I can do that, and have done it (yummy!) I
just do it. I don't really think about it or how I do it. Do you? Also, I
never really thought about how I know the chords to a song when I hear it -
and then can play it. But I started to consider that the first time I ever
heard the NOISE a tone deaf person made and realized that they had no clue
how to "hear" what chords were being played. Same thing - for me it's
exactly the same kind of thing. All of this. I have noticed what a lot of
people CAN NOT do - but I never really thought much about what I COULD do,
or what I know by means that - apparently - others don't utilize. Example.
I never thought much about swimming underwater and holding breath a long
time or swimming out in deep water for hours without any effort at all. I
never paid attention to it UNTIL - I noticed people had to keep their eyes
closed and told me they did that, or they had to wear nose clips to keep
water out of their nose, or they couldn't stay under as long as I did, or
they get TIRED when swimming around in deep water (when I never do; I can
stay out there for HOURS!). Get what I mean? I have to notice it in the
first place. Even when I go out there, I never noticed that some people I
chat with stayed in water that was at least up to their chests - not over
their heads. I just figured they liked it. LOL. I never thought they
couldn't swim - or FLOAT!! It's passive like that - all of it, especially
the stuff that you might see as mystical or magical. I never gave it much
thought.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># Set comes next ....
#>
#> the Temple of Set isn't connected with anything extant in a
#> social sense either. it is also a Neopagan construct after
#> the excellent construction.... of Setian HP Michael Aquino....
do you think Aquino was contacted by extant survivals of
ancient priestly lineages worshipping Set? in the flesh?
I have no idea. Maybe he was. I think you are too focused on priestly
LINEAGES. Were St. Augistine's kids also Bishops?
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> you cannot get away with throwing *ideas and images* at me,
#> from which many of these *MODERN RELIGIOUS DEVELOPMENTS* derive.
#> if you feel that there is more to it than this, please explain.
#> that some of them may attempt to *connect back with something
#> which they believe to have once existed, reproducing it in some
#> manner is in no way a continuity of extant traditions.
#
# I disagree. Aquino has his hands on some real Egyptian texts there....
the texts are not at issue, any more than they might be for any
other Neopagans. what gives you reason to think they have lineage
in some extant Egyptian Set-worship? if none, why ain't they Neopagan?
Pagan, by my definition, is polytheistic.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# They have done some deep study of this.
nobody questions the study of Neopagans. that's never the issue, though
sometimes the study is amusing as it maps to a variety of questionable
and mythological constructions. is Budge superceded by novel Egyptology?
I gather in some areas he is, but I'm not yet aware how this impacts the
constructions of Aquino (some fallout with Crowley has been amusing!).
You'd have to ask them. On this, I don't know.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...IN practice, the DDoc stuff would definitely be related - as a
# continuation - of the eastern stuff - yes.
it sounds similar in character, yes, unless some guru instructed you,
or you have some lineage-bearing based strictly on birth (you might
for all I know, I'm curious if so what).
See above, already explained that. You do realize that the Dalai Lama was
discovered when he was a child, right? No one instructed him, He was
recognized as an avatar of Opame - I think amithaba in Hindu lingo. As for
me, there are things I always could just DO - and never thought about any of
it much until someone says "oh, well, that's _____" some advanced yoga.
Well, that's nice.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# In practice IF anyone goes and does it. I don't tell anyone HOW -
# I don't want to get sued if someone gets hurt.
superpowers and special dangerous practices are not uncommon
in esoteric, occult, and sorcerous trads.
There is nothing superpower or special about it - but some things are
physically dangerous to do. They can result in a person going into a coma
and not coming back out. Martial arts and use of chi is also dangerous -
you can get hit so hard you die, you can be crippled for life. People who
have DONE these yogas the wrong way, ended up with a HEAP of medical bills
and no doctor knowing what was wrong with them.

I find no basis for
Post by SOD of the CoE
their reality as yet but enjoy learning about the contentions.
What I am talking about is very real. Some things CAN harm people. I'm not
going to explain how to do such things to anyone. Shit, I won't even go out
in the water and "watch" a beach pals nephews if they have swim noodles with
them. I do not want the responsibility. If they can't swim, they should
stay the fuck OUT of deep water in the ocean. Or let their aunt watch them
herself. Asking ME to do it, is highly imposing. I won't. I don't go
there to babysit. That's my point of view on a great deal of things.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# The order in which the stuff is presented will remain - tho
# it HAS been updated.
kind of like Crowley teaching yoga after Patanjali and a meeting
with a yogi and some experiments on his own, discussions with
his Buddhist instructor?
HUH? I don't know what you're talking about.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Yah, but you might piss off some of those herds if you post up wrong
# information :)
I'm not concerned. my confusions will clear over time and my
intentions in support of Satanism and its archival are plain. :>
eventually I'll be provided with a free CoSatanic membership,
even if post-mortem.
How about a free TOS membership? Or an SR membership? You told me ages ago
in hard copy that you kinda wanted them to hand you that.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#>#> note the commonality of "Dark Force" metaphysics....
#>#
#># Yes - it's why LaVey handed out high titles to non members....
#>
#> so the Magister and Magistra titles didn't make you members?
#> if not, why not, even honorary?
#
# No. Members are members with certain duties they had to do if they headed
# Grottos, or if they were Magistrates in charge of a group of Grottos.
very reasonable. purpose-oriented. similar to some other orgs I've known.
Problem is, there was no purpose to it and well, those detailed written
reports - no one ever got feedback on any of it. Hence, when Prometheus
Grotto was going in the COS, Ole took a long time with his portions because
he kinda wanted to "battle Barton" - at least, from Vad's point of view. I
wasn't there. I didn't see any of it. Ask Vad. He was the head of the
Grotto.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I couldn't stand the idea that they'd go to so much trouble to PREVENT Egan
# from simply making another org of his own. They persecuted him. They
# prevented him from getting on tV to speak about HIS form of Satanism, too.
sadly humourous.
# ...It was withdrawn when I said they could no longer use a word from
# us in ANY of their stuff.
and your withdrawal was in response to the "Is Fascism Satanic?"
compilation being squelched.
No, my withdrawal was in response to the trashing I gave them online and the
copies of all of it I made sure Barton got in the mail - 4 packages worth of
it. The summary of that is in the file I sent you.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># ...Zeena who used to be the High Priestess of the COS...
#># she not only left the COS and the HPhood, but she disowned
#># her father.... ...She joined the TOS, rose up in that due
#># to her ability and merit ([per] Aquino...) - and then was
#># made High Priestess of the TOS. She then splintered off
#># to head The Storm.
#>
#> amusing. this implies the interest in LaVey legacy in ToS also.
#
# Not at all. She completely disavows her father, refuses to be
# called even by the name Lavey. She publicly and on TV disowned
# him. She also claimed to curse him to death on the Bob Larson show! ...
par for the course. you should see the Satan family in comics. I've
been researching that for some years now, and Satana (the girlchild)
of Satan is a real mean monster. she sucks out souls, Tani!
Never saw it. Not interested in it. Give you an example - I watched 2
episodes of Gunsmoke today, 1 episode of the Waltons, and plan on watching
Hallmark Channel movie tonight and ER after it's taped. In the main,
however, I am an avid sci fi fan, Star Trek, that, the sci fi channel stuff.
I prefer VISUAL media over anything else. I'm not interested in reading
religious material of ANY kind - especially org stuff. I am a beach lover
when it's warmer out, love the ocean, and when sitting on the beach with
nice sea wind, I like to play cribbage or just relax. OK? I enjoy a good
meal, ballroom dancing. I'm not intersted in anything ELSE. Phil's main
interest has ALWAYS been science. Always. Even as a child. Otherwise, we
have 90% of what we like in common. OK? So we, you and I, have vastly
different interests - interests so far apart that in real life, if we met
and didn't know who each other were, we'd probably never talk past five
minutes and then we'd forget each other. Also, if you didn't frequent the
places I tend to BE at, we would never ever meet and cross paths.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# She does not disavow her mother Diane, btw. So, while we might
# see her as Anton's daughter - she does not see HERSELF as his
# daughter....
she must have at some point. genetically it may be supposed.
the dynasty lives on in additional factionalism.
One never knows. Maybe she has legit reasons to say she's not his daughter.
DNA TEST? Who knows. I think that only a very small percentage of
satanists see them as any kind of dynasty. I sure don't.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> insofar as either Aquino or you might be examples, both
#> of you are no longer affiliated (Aquino left, you were
#> apparently abandoned or cast out).
# I was disassociated by Barton - but consider what I did. I MAILED her all
# the trashing and outing of shit that I had DONE to her own members. I made
# sure she got it all, too, hard copy.... ...all the people I was trashing
# and exposing, the ones on the "in-clique" with the clout to intimidate
# people for wanting to write anti fascist projects and such, they are now
# either purged out, or persuaded to quit - or they are dead or in jail....
sounds like your instincts were good at least in some instances.
I can remember Gilmore saying maybe 100 times "Tani, you were
right......again." Yup. It's not my problem, Tyagi.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#>#> C$ The source of the energy we raise and focus remains the
#>#> C$ same; our dark Frequency remains as constant as polar north.
#>#
#># ...It's very very ancient.
#>
#> I understand that the ideas you synthesized together in part draw
#> on longstanding philosophic and religious societal traditions. if
#> this is your point, granted. other than that, I see nothing which
#> is different than ordinary Neopaganism, and *less* if one is
#> talking about ritualism (which you say that you two don't do)
#> and worship (I haven't understood your mode of worship if you
#> have one). values are easy to explain. demonstrations tougher.
#
# I worship nothing - in the sense you mean worship....
and your sense is? relish? engagement of the Dark Force? Knowing?
Knowing - feeling at all times. Otherwise, it's not somethning I THINK
about - it's like breathing.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...There is nothing neo-pagan about DDocs. It's as far from that
# as it is from monotheism. The entire paradigm is just too different.
its paradigm or integrity with respect to extant or previous peoples
is less important to me in an evaluation of its Neopaganism as
compared with its overt societal connection.
Huh?
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> course many 'zines which are filled with questionable materials.
#
# OH, those books are not really The Books. The Satanic Witch
# was originally called the Compleat (not misspelled) Witch -
# LaVey wrote it. I have it.
"The Satanic Witch" has different contents, substantially from its
original edition, "The Compleat Witch"??
No - same book.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># ...It's a SYMBOL, nothing more....
#>
#> this is a predominant perception of Satan within LaVeyan Satanism,
#> agreed. as such it is a "form of Satan" (symbolic, conceptual)....
#
# Well, they tend to really mock out people that believe in a literal Devil.
which shows something of the nature of their CoSatanism, how it manifests
in Herds, what it includes, how it might function at large in society,
etc.,etc.
#> sure it is, it misses out on the MOST IMPORTANT KIND of
#> Satanism: independents, solitaries, etc.;
#
# ...they're mentioned now. But no urls can be given for them,
# of course! ALL of the independents in SR have NO online urls -
# and no use for them!
interesting. there's a few around I'm sure. :>
# ...Who says that some Christians don't decide to [worship] that
# CHRISTIAN satan? SOME HAVE done that! ....
certainly true. proto-Satanists, de facto in some cases.
some of the stories aren't reliable.
I met a few of them during PRE-LaVey days in the 60s. Devil worshipers.
They called themselves satanists.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...MET a Christian Devil worshipping Satanist - self identified
# as a Satanist.
such individuals are not unknown to me. some orient this way for
a transitional period post-Christianity.
#> ...please
#> describe actual CoSatanist rituals and activities....
#
# You can see them on the TV shows where they presented themselves doing them.
I saw 'Satanism Today' listed on websites. some kind of cable show?
are there archives of these things for sale somewhere?
Don't know - ask Satan Shop. They showed one on the MSNBC thing with the
Gidneys on it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...it was the HP and CO 9 that INTIMIDATED their own members AGAINST
# giving me and the guy who made the project ANY essays....
thank you for clarifying that.
# That is REALLY what started the shit flying - the anti fascist stance
# and ME soliciting essays FOR the guy after Gilmore WARNED him against
# it. Then ME putting it on OUR website. Then the flames flew and the
# shit went down. In that order. That, plus a few other things.
and plus you had that letter he sent too which was sick-humour reference
to usenet nazy-metaphors. do you think he was trying to avoid you kinda
cramping his style? was he using this nazi-metaphor quite a bit through
the years for internal communiques? I didn't get that impression, or that
it was much more than a joke, possibly making light of neo-nazi factions.
If you mean that email, I was NOT one of the recipients of that. There was
no joke about it - he sent that TO people that he knew WOULD DO what he
asked them to do, LIKE storm troopers. Damn, tyagi - pay attention - I was
NOT one of the recipients of it. It got OUTED by one who WAS - that is how
I obtained it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> religious hypocrisy is rampant. nothing new there.
#
# Among people that declare that they hate hypocricy? ....
amongst all religious I've ever encountered, bar none, yes.
#>#> $| The Order of Nine Angles would be the only form of Satanism
#>#> $| out there that would conform to [a] Christian view, including
#>#> $| the view that Satanists engage in human sacrifice and other
#>#> $| such panic-inspiring ideas.
#> ...the ONA is not the ONLY form of Satanism which supports the
#> notion of human sacrifice. I do, for one, and that makes your
#> statement untrue.
#
# I can add you to that if you like - give me details in email so
# I can COPY PASTE. Note that if your URL has info that people
# can find (eg, Tos does NOT openly excplain Set).... then I can
# point to the URL and YOUR definition of human sacrifice (which
# is not really a normal definition of it!!) EMAIL it. I'll
# definitrely see it and get it faster.
will do, later tomorrow or something, thanks!
# Fixed that, mentioned independents - but there is nothing
# much ANYONE can say about them save to say they are independent. :)
depends on your interests. DVera pioneered it and I think it worthy
of repetition that Independent Satanists are alike to others in
that they all perceive some beneficial or advantageous relation to
whatever they associate with "Satan", else they wouldn't seek to be
known as somehow correlate to a 'Satanist' (even if an atheistic
adversarial type or a demonolater hoping for Armageddon deserts).
#> you might want to get to know some of those forms too.
#
# What for?
depends on your interests in reflecting the vast preponderance
of Satanists out there. somebody (you? someone else maybe) said
recently in usenet that Satanism is not popular culture. this
is possible to generalize into sociology also (Satanism is not
what grabs the most attention and locks into inverso-Christian
trajectories; it is also strewn with primarily anti-religious
and anti-Christian valences from the Black-Metal types, which
are definitely qualifiers, to the wild demonolaters hanging
out in goth clubs and communing with the Dark Side.
I can't relate to the inversion or anti christian or whatever types of
ANYTHING, whether they be clothed in satanic garb or atheistic garb. I keep
clear of people with a desire to rage AGAINST their own backgrounds or
culture or whatever. I can't relate to why they don't just bitch out their
parents and get done with it. I don't want to hear their noise. I avoid
them if I see them. They don't meet me, normally. Neither can I relate to
the inverso Islam out there, where people get distorted Mohammed words and
spend their own good time BITCHING about how horrible they are. I think
they see something of themselves IN that - hence the obsessions.
I have no desire to talk about that kind of shit. No desire to hear it.
I'd rather hear about Joan's new shoes.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I might be seen as individual - independent....
agreed. I figured that you were, that there wasn't any need
for adherence to the Dark Doctrines to make them valuable
within the experience at least of *yours*,
Right, you got it. It's not some BIG issue in my life as it is with people
who ARE religious - or even to people that get INTO the DDocs.

and that its
Post by SOD of the CoE
compelling authenticity was in part what drew the CoSatanist
Herd to put their weight behind it, at least temporarily.
Yes, until I said they could not longer use any of it. tyagi, I don't enjoy
talking about the DDOCS with anyone offline real life either. People that
HAVE come to visit me, did not talk about ANYTHING like that, while here. I
made it available for others, sure - and they might get INTO it. But to
think I'm "INTO" that would be a mistake. It's all very personal, and there
is really no mode of communication about such matters with anyone OUTSIDE
THE CULTURE - and then, people IN the culture seldom talk "about" that stuff
either :) It is useful information - it has helped people. Yes.
:>
Post by SOD of the CoE
that this body of work was the production of more than one
individual of course makes it more difficult to divide up
in so easy a manner, however. as such, whoever originates
them may somehow qualify (you said PMarsh is primarily an
atheist,
Correction - I said it. Phil HIMSELF says he has no religion. He's not an
atheist - he considers that a religion too. That is what he SAID, quote
unquote. Please keep up and do not assume I know what others believe. This
SHOULD give you an idea how much "religion" is NOT an issue Phil or I get
into or talk about. Phil can also do some of those siddhi things, the
yoga - but he does NOT regard that as religion at all. It's just something
he can do. If you want to know, my grandfather and I taught him that
stuff - because he was ABLE to do it. Like teaching a kid with good ears
and aptitude how to play an instrument - he already HAS the ability
ingrained in him.

for example; Hr. Vad appears solidly a Satanist
Post by SOD of the CoE
as long as I've known of him and interacted with him,
for the most part in friendly tones).
You'd have to ask him.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I am Satan. You are TALKING to the flame that burns
# IN the boundless Darkness. My take. Bottom line :)
an obvious explanation for your pro-Satanic orientation.
You could take it that way. :)
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># ...YOU are not the source for SR, CoS or ToS or any other
#># ORGANIZATION out there. Right? ...
#>
#> non-sequitur. I'm the source for Satanism insofar as I am
#> allied with, have pacted with, defend, and assist Satan to
#> the best of my ability and am attempting to clearly give
#> expression to the extant materials by actual Satanists.
#>
#> organizations, as I've said above, are NOT the core or the
#> centrality of Satanism. it is always the INDIVIDUAL who
# ...who is gonna want to know about "what satanic orgs are out there,
# what kind of satanism is out there" and FIND an independent solitary
# satanist? ....
presentation is everything.
# ...How do YOU know there aren't Jewish Satanists ....
I don't. I presume there are probably all kinds. I think you provided
me with a URL for one of your friends who so identifies. :>
# ...Independents DO NOT TEND to keep in touch....
correct. compare: solitary witches.
# ...the info for SR is way too Hindu [focussed] -
# it's misleading, I think. Hmm, note to self -
# SAY that on there. LOL.
good idea. in part I was hoping to draw you out to say more
in association with conventional Western terms how Sat-Tan
relates to whatever you do with it, and what this might be
in relation to Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and whatever
seems possibly comparable, afterwards. the comparisons are
only helpful to those who (like me, perhaps) have some
exposure to those ideas and terminologies, systems.
Well, none in the Sr have a problem understanding the doctrines, if they get
them, or the stuff on the SR website (the SR website - not the GoD one). So
it's not an issue .
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> at least our threads actually pertain to Satanism. ;>
#
# Heh, imagine that! on alt.satanism, too. WOW. ;-9
exemplary!
heh, typed this during the commercials - watching a GOOD SHOW here :)

Later.
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang
2004-12-10 03:01:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041209 viii om Hail Satan! (only took me a week to write the response :>)
#> ...the Christians call/called 'Satan' in their fevered moments
#> -- wild nature.
# I do not believe that Christians call wild nature Satan at all.
# Why not? Because when explaining wild nature.... TO evangelicals
# they said "but, that's just nature, GOD made that, not Satan." ....
nothing Created by their God, it is only the uncontrolled resisting.
imagining horrors, they know not the true perfection and beauty.
# ...EDUCATED Christians. mean something that is deliberately,
# with malice of forethought - ANTI HUMAN and ANTI NATURE TOO.
# THAT is what the christians mean....
the nightmare is horrendous, its plastering insult gross projection.
# I believe that the Satan they refer to ....
their concepts vacant, their moral vacancy tragic to the demonic.
# ...what the Christians mean.... [is a] hell of lot heavier ...
the drama interferes with the real story, however, heaviness aside.
# ...for the definition of Evil anti human Tyrant - the OT Jehova
# fits that bill to a T. Those people didn't NEED an evil Devil.
# They had Jehova! LOL.
fictions are always more interesting than realities.
Satan is a reality, upon which the fictions are projected,
conforming in characteristic to what is identified in fantasy.
the fantasy is used as a targetting device for attention and
the demonization of competitors for the exploitation of the known.
#> you're ...a worshipper or Knower of Darkness.
#
# KNOWER of. I do not worship anything.
why not? how do CoSatanists usually worship themselves?
why isn't the Dark Flame worthy of your worship?
The Dark Flame is worthy of having it flowing within and back to the
darkness of its origin - and doing that is only a matter of ENJOYING life,
inner peace, and so forth.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...it was kinda odd for a short while having recently ex-tos
# members and staunch tos members in there at the same time - oh boy.
# HAPPILY, they never brought up the tos :) or fought with each other.
says something for their character and sincerety.
Yes it does. They were in the SR and as SRs they respected the org they
joined.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# [using the label, 'Satan' can]...call a person AWAY from what
# it actually IS. Call it wild nature if you want - branding that
# Satan will destroy the THATNESS of what really IS wild nature
# itself. Do you understand?
evil revealed as the uncontrolled, compassion may come to the fore.
When I say the word evil, I have very specific parameters for what evil is.
War is not evil. Even genocide is not evil. Malice for the sake of malice
itself - the intent being to destroy love or joy that people do have - that
is evil. I don't mean kill the person. I mean destroy something on that
inner level. That which turns an animal against its own instincts - is
evil.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> secondary status of societal acceptance.
#> it is comparable to the Christian intention to
#> convince me that what I'm worshipping *is* the
#> anti-God
# But your Satan is NOT the anti-God at all
actually, SHe is, in spots. :>
# You worship The Creation - in strictest Christian terms!
what convinces you of the truth of these Christian terms?
Nature itself. The cosmos itself. That is the "creation" in their own
religion, in strict theological terms. Whether they are wrong or not about
it being created (we say it was emanated) is not the point. No one can
doubt that the cosmos DOES exist (except poison pen..... he has theories
that cast doubt on it, LMAO).
Post by SOD of the CoE
admitting of no Creation, what I worship, Kali, doesn't
really seem like 'the Creation' any more than other gods,
and some tell me that She made everything and will eat it.
Jesus stories. Kali stories. they're swell, but I don't
believe in any of them as history.
Forget Jesus. Kali - and that cosmogenetic idea - is very close to what
science says based on observation!
Post by SOD of the CoE
because I see what is being called Satan, the reality
behind the imagined adversary of the Christian perception,
I say the cosmic adversary is worthy of Salvation too,
and we can all find our interests fulfilled without violence.
the proper response from a true Christian, absent an actual
Satan Devil appearing to take responsibility for the abject
devastation caused by humans bent on decimating it, is to
Steward *that* part of the Creation well too, rather than
to pursue our juvenile and evil notions of revenge/exploit.
If cultures didn't have their gods to do battle over, they'd just find
another thing to call it. The battles are not waged for any holy purpose.
They are waged due to greed and often due to need.
Post by SOD of the CoE
once the terms of engagement are arranged, whether we're
worshipping our Gods, the Creation, or whatever, we can discern
with more efficiency the best course of our involvement. taming
a planet is nothing for our species. what will be left of it
after it is dominated and destroyed, surrounded or burned,
gardened and controlled (large storms and earthquakes, diseases
constituting the very stuff of the Satanic, some known as Kali!)?
We don't know what will happen if man goes techno-man and controls it all.
There might not be diseases, storms and etc that man can not control. We
don't know that.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...the origin of all black magic, REAL black magic, ...
# ...the origin of the really hidden insights into terrifying things
# that most people do not see and wouldn't WANT to see....
# ...Original Satan. ... Sri Kala Chakra ....
do you agree with the Setians that the Original Satan was Set?
is Sri Kala Chakra also Set?
Yes. I think that BOTH Sat and Tan and Set were words/titles that may have
been messed with by a culture (the Hebrews - and the Persiona with whom the
Hebrews had contact) that was ad odds with both societies. The Hebrews
spread their creed. The others didn't.
Post by SOD of the CoE
and what about Ahriman?
Please see this for Ahriman and how a non-dual Persian tradition became the
first dualism involving "good/evil" gods:
http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-persian-dualism.html

how far
Post by SOD of the CoE
into the realm of the Evil Spirit does the Spirit go? granted
a shamanic perspective this kind of moral context seems wan.
Yes, from my perspective there is no good/evil in spirit. There is ONLY
spirit. Persians demonized the spiritual concepts of their enemies - as did
the Hebrews. Both cultures, (Persian/Hebrew) have affected western
perspective and religion to a great extent.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...every single aspect of satan, fangs, talons, serpent tale...
# It's even red. .... ...Satan IS God!
even many Jews believe that, it seems, the aspects of the God
are the God itself also, inclusive of those heinous/judging.
Yup. Point being, the Void doesn't judge or care. PEOPLE judge and care.
People abuse spirituality and claim they do things on behalf of gods. They
lie.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# There is no OTHER "god" out there. And the god ain't even a god.
# It's a THINGNESS, a THATNESS. It's not huggy huggy, it's not pro
# or anti human. It is what it is. It can be perceived as the most
# horrific and terrible thing imaginable - and at the same time,
# the most wonderful thing - at the same time.
thank you very much for sharing of the nature of your Satan,
both here and more recently in your long post about Sat-Tan.
Welcome, but the info is public on our websites. Too bad the Setian info is
NOT! There is apparently a GREAT deal of stuff they say about entire LHP
cultures and that's just not for sale or available outside their org. And
yes, I did urge Aquino at times to make it public, lest people who have it
and share it (against the rules) misrepresent it by snipping portiong and
displaying them wholly out of context. I was personally shown "TOS
DOCTRINES" in that kind of broken up, pasted up, false form - of course,
their enemies showed them to me.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# It's Knowledge - with a capital K.
K = 11
# ...They are NOT neo pagans....
neat-o. generationals too? is it a potentate legion?
I don't know what you mean.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...I finally said that the cos has NO PERMISSION to use ANYTHING
# from the DDocs. So yeah, hah hah, they distanced themselves from
# what we, the copyright owners, said they could not use anymore.
# ...they didn't really have a CHOICE. It's our material and it is
# legally, gov copyrighted 1990....
meanies. ;>
#> there is a recognizable influence you seem to have resonated
#> to or had upon them at some point in time,
# Yes, and as I just said, I said they could NO LONGER USE a single
# thing from the DDocs. So they HAD to distance themselves. They
# had no choice.
out-maneuvered!!
# ...IN WRITING....
many things are expressed in writing. some are purely political.
# ...They most definitely DO have doctrines (teachings) - the
# philosophy of Anton and exploration of that.
neither the fact of doctrinal existence, nor the fact that some may
be told that adherence to such standards will be required of them
is demonstration that this is the litmus-gate of membership.
Uh, "anyone that chooses to adhere to doctrines other than those of Anton
Lavey, can hand in their membership card and leave the COS." You have the
files. Read them.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># The Shivaite system that spawned Sat and Tan....
#>
#> show me data on Saivites that worshipped Satan and how you
#> and any of your clan are related to them directly rather than
#> as some perceived Neopagan syncretic fabrication. did your
#> Grandfather Choeje Lama believe that he was worshipping Satan?
#
# LMAO, he didn't know the word, [bobo]. His English was always TERRIBLE.
start more clearly then. did he believe that he was worshipping
Sri Kala Chakra? or in the same relation to said being as you?
Yes. But not worship in the sense people mean that word. "KNOWING it" is
more like it. Yes. Sri Kala Chakra, aka Mahakala, aka Karabog (in Tatar
language), as given these are the same thing, just titles for IT.
Post by SOD of the CoE
was that objective you stipulated for you his also? some kind
of Knower of the Dark Force?
Yes. But "Dark force," that's an English concept construct. "Boundless
Darkness," is the word - and it does what we say it does (agreement there).
The problem is in the words. Like when I take my shoes to Cubans to DYE
them, they have no idea what I mean. They say they PAINTED them.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...Doing siddhi is not ritualistic.
what does it include?
It's part of kundalini yoga - a use of chakras to gain knowledge or see
things that one does not normally see. I explained it in the "What is
Shamanism" article, Tyagi. In detail.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Doing kundalini yoga is not ritual. You DO it.
what does it include? how is it Satanic by some explanation?
It doesn't have to be satanic. To brand it by a label is to not understand
it. Is breathing satanic?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Perhaps we need to define "ritual." Sure he passed it down to me.
was it some kind of ceremony that passed it? was it genetic?
did he pass it down to you intentionally?
In some ways yes, in other ways no. If I tended to know something, or
arrive at something - he would show me that this is the same as the
doctrines or cultural practices. Maybe it is genetic, I have no idea. No
ceremony. I know when he had a hard time explaining something to a person
that didn't speak anything BUT English, he's ask me to explain it.

do those of his
Post by SOD of the CoE
lineage acknowledge you as a lineage-holder in some sense
representative or grounded in their lamaist, or whathaveyou,
tradition?
Heh, it doesn't work that way. They obviously don't consider the Islamics
in the family part of the tradition, if that's what you mean.
Post by SOD of the CoE
or was the 'passing' more metaphorical, by birthing?
Yea, I'd say more or less - I never really thought much about this, Tyagi.
I never really thought much about what I seemed to always be able to DO,
either - or what they are called, "knowing" by certain means. I can't
remember being taught that like I was taught math in school, if that's what
you mean. I mean, no one ever taught me how to taste some exotic dish and
then figure out what's in it, and then figure out proportions of what's in
it and then how to make it. But I can do that, and have done it (yummy!) I
just do it. I don't really think about it or how I do it. Do you? Also, I
never really thought about how I know the chords to a song when I hear it -
and then can play it. But I started to consider that the first time I ever
heard the NOISE a tone deaf person made and realized that they had no clue
how to "hear" what chords were being played. Same thing - for me it's
exactly the same kind of thing. All of this. I have noticed what a lot of
people CAN NOT do - but I never really thought much about what I COULD do,
or what I know by means that - apparently - others don't utilize. Example.
I never thought much about swimming underwater and holding breath a long
time or swimming out in deep water for hours without any effort at all. I
never paid attention to it UNTIL - I noticed people had to keep their eyes
closed and told me they did that, or they had to wear nose clips to keep
water out of their nose, or they couldn't stay under as long as I did, or
they get TIRED when swimming around in deep water (when I never do; I can
stay out there for HOURS!). Get what I mean? I have to notice it in the
first place. Even when I go out there, I never noticed that some people I
chat with stayed in water that was at least up to their chests - not over
their heads. I just figured they liked it. LOL. I never thought they
couldn't swim - or FLOAT!! It's passive like that - all of it, especially
the stuff that you might see as mystical or magical. I never gave it much
thought.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># Set comes next ....
#>
#> the Temple of Set isn't connected with anything extant in a
#> social sense either. it is also a Neopagan construct after
#> the excellent construction.... of Setian HP Michael Aquino....
do you think Aquino was contacted by extant survivals of
ancient priestly lineages worshipping Set? in the flesh?
I have no idea. Maybe he was. I think you are too focused on priestly
LINEAGES. Were St. Augistine's kids also Bishops?
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> you cannot get away with throwing *ideas and images* at me,
#> from which many of these *MODERN RELIGIOUS DEVELOPMENTS* derive.
#> if you feel that there is more to it than this, please explain.
#> that some of them may attempt to *connect back with something
#> which they believe to have once existed, reproducing it in some
#> manner is in no way a continuity of extant traditions.
#
# I disagree. Aquino has his hands on some real Egyptian texts there....
the texts are not at issue, any more than they might be for any
other Neopagans. what gives you reason to think they have lineage
in some extant Egyptian Set-worship? if none, why ain't they Neopagan?
Pagan, by my definition, is polytheistic.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# They have done some deep study of this.
nobody questions the study of Neopagans. that's never the issue, though
sometimes the study is amusing as it maps to a variety of questionable
and mythological constructions. is Budge superceded by novel Egyptology?
I gather in some areas he is, but I'm not yet aware how this impacts the
constructions of Aquino (some fallout with Crowley has been amusing!).
You'd have to ask them. On this, I don't know.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...IN practice, the DDoc stuff would definitely be related - as a
# continuation - of the eastern stuff - yes.
it sounds similar in character, yes, unless some guru instructed you,
or you have some lineage-bearing based strictly on birth (you might
for all I know, I'm curious if so what).
See above, already explained that. You do realize that the Dalai Lama was
discovered when he was a child, right? No one instructed him, He was
recognized as an avatar of Opame - I think amithaba in Hindu lingo. As for
me, there are things I always could just DO - and never thought about any of
it much until someone says "oh, well, that's _____" some advanced yoga.
Well, that's nice.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# In practice IF anyone goes and does it. I don't tell anyone HOW -
# I don't want to get sued if someone gets hurt.
superpowers and special dangerous practices are not uncommon
in esoteric, occult, and sorcerous trads.
There is nothing superpower or special about it - but some things are
physically dangerous to do. They can result in a person going into a coma
and not coming back out. Martial arts and use of chi is also dangerous -
you can get hit so hard you die, you can be crippled for life. People who
have DONE these yogas the wrong way, ended up with a HEAP of medical bills
and no doctor knowing what was wrong with them.

I find no basis for
Post by SOD of the CoE
their reality as yet but enjoy learning about the contentions.
What I am talking about is very real. Some things CAN harm people. I'm not
going to explain how to do such things to anyone. Shit, I won't even go out
in the water and "watch" a beach pals nephews if they have swim noodles with
them. I do not want the responsibility. If they can't swim, they should
stay the fuck OUT of deep water in the ocean. Or let their aunt watch them
herself. Asking ME to do it, is highly imposing. I won't. I don't go
there to babysit. That's my point of view on a great deal of things.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# The order in which the stuff is presented will remain - tho
# it HAS been updated.
kind of like Crowley teaching yoga after Patanjali and a meeting
with a yogi and some experiments on his own, discussions with
his Buddhist instructor?
HUH? I don't know what you're talking about.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Yah, but you might piss off some of those herds if you post up wrong
# information :)
I'm not concerned. my confusions will clear over time and my
intentions in support of Satanism and its archival are plain. :>
eventually I'll be provided with a free CoSatanic membership,
even if post-mortem.
How about a free TOS membership? Or an SR membership? You told me ages ago
in hard copy that you kinda wanted them to hand you that.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#>#> note the commonality of "Dark Force" metaphysics....
#>#
#># Yes - it's why LaVey handed out high titles to non members....
#>
#> so the Magister and Magistra titles didn't make you members?
#> if not, why not, even honorary?
#
# No. Members are members with certain duties they had to do if they headed
# Grottos, or if they were Magistrates in charge of a group of Grottos.
very reasonable. purpose-oriented. similar to some other orgs I've known.
Problem is, there was no purpose to it and well, those detailed written
reports - no one ever got feedback on any of it. Hence, when Prometheus
Grotto was going in the COS, Ole took a long time with his portions because
he kinda wanted to "battle Barton" - at least, from Vad's point of view. I
wasn't there. I didn't see any of it. Ask Vad. He was the head of the
Grotto.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I couldn't stand the idea that they'd go to so much trouble to PREVENT Egan
# from simply making another org of his own. They persecuted him. They
# prevented him from getting on tV to speak about HIS form of Satanism, too.
sadly humourous.
# ...It was withdrawn when I said they could no longer use a word from
# us in ANY of their stuff.
and your withdrawal was in response to the "Is Fascism Satanic?"
compilation being squelched.
No, my withdrawal was in response to the trashing I gave them online and the
copies of all of it I made sure Barton got in the mail - 4 packages worth of
it. The summary of that is in the file I sent you.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># ...Zeena who used to be the High Priestess of the COS...
#># she not only left the COS and the HPhood, but she disowned
#># her father.... ...She joined the TOS, rose up in that due
#># to her ability and merit ([per] Aquino...) - and then was
#># made High Priestess of the TOS. She then splintered off
#># to head The Storm.
#>
#> amusing. this implies the interest in LaVey legacy in ToS also.
#
# Not at all. She completely disavows her father, refuses to be
# called even by the name Lavey. She publicly and on TV disowned
# him. She also claimed to curse him to death on the Bob Larson show! ...
par for the course. you should see the Satan family in comics. I've
been researching that for some years now, and Satana (the girlchild)
of Satan is a real mean monster. she sucks out souls, Tani!
Never saw it. Not interested in it. Give you an example - I watched 2
episodes of Gunsmoke today, 1 episode of the Waltons, and plan on watching
Hallmark Channel movie tonight and ER after it's taped. In the main,
however, I am an avid sci fi fan, Star Trek, that, the sci fi channel stuff.
I prefer VISUAL media over anything else. I'm not interested in reading
religious material of ANY kind - especially org stuff. I am a beach lover
when it's warmer out, love the ocean, and when sitting on the beach with
nice sea wind, I like to play cribbage or just relax. OK? I enjoy a good
meal, ballroom dancing. I'm not intersted in anything ELSE. Phil's main
interest has ALWAYS been science. Always. Even as a child. Otherwise, we
have 90% of what we like in common. OK? So we, you and I, have vastly
different interests - interests so far apart that in real life, if we met
and didn't know who each other were, we'd probably never talk past five
minutes and then we'd forget each other. Also, if you didn't frequent the
places I tend to BE at, we would never ever meet and cross paths.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# She does not disavow her mother Diane, btw. So, while we might
# see her as Anton's daughter - she does not see HERSELF as his
# daughter....
she must have at some point. genetically it may be supposed.
the dynasty lives on in additional factionalism.
One never knows. Maybe she has legit reasons to say she's not his daughter.
DNA TEST? Who knows. I think that only a very small percentage of
satanists see them as any kind of dynasty. I sure don't.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> insofar as either Aquino or you might be examples, both
#> of you are no longer affiliated (Aquino left, you were
#> apparently abandoned or cast out).
# I was disassociated by Barton - but consider what I did. I MAILED her all
# the trashing and outing of shit that I had DONE to her own members. I made
# sure she got it all, too, hard copy.... ...all the people I was trashing
# and exposing, the ones on the "in-clique" with the clout to intimidate
# people for wanting to write anti fascist projects and such, they are now
# either purged out, or persuaded to quit - or they are dead or in jail....
sounds like your instincts were good at least in some instances.
I can remember Gilmore saying maybe 100 times "Tani, you were
right......again." Yup. It's not my problem, Tyagi.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#>#> C$ The source of the energy we raise and focus remains the
#>#> C$ same; our dark Frequency remains as constant as polar north.
#>#
#># ...It's very very ancient.
#>
#> I understand that the ideas you synthesized together in part draw
#> on longstanding philosophic and religious societal traditions. if
#> this is your point, granted. other than that, I see nothing which
#> is different than ordinary Neopaganism, and *less* if one is
#> talking about ritualism (which you say that you two don't do)
#> and worship (I haven't understood your mode of worship if you
#> have one). values are easy to explain. demonstrations tougher.
#
# I worship nothing - in the sense you mean worship....
and your sense is? relish? engagement of the Dark Force? Knowing?
Knowing - feeling at all times. Otherwise, it's not somethning I THINK
about - it's like breathing.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...There is nothing neo-pagan about DDocs. It's as far from that
# as it is from monotheism. The entire paradigm is just too different.
its paradigm or integrity with respect to extant or previous peoples
is less important to me in an evaluation of its Neopaganism as
compared with its overt societal connection.
Huh?
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> course many 'zines which are filled with questionable materials.
#
# OH, those books are not really The Books. The Satanic Witch
# was originally called the Compleat (not misspelled) Witch -
# LaVey wrote it. I have it.
"The Satanic Witch" has different contents, substantially from its
original edition, "The Compleat Witch"??
No - same book.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># ...It's a SYMBOL, nothing more....
#>
#> this is a predominant perception of Satan within LaVeyan Satanism,
#> agreed. as such it is a "form of Satan" (symbolic, conceptual)....
#
# Well, they tend to really mock out people that believe in a literal Devil.
which shows something of the nature of their CoSatanism, how it manifests
in Herds, what it includes, how it might function at large in society,
etc.,etc.
#> sure it is, it misses out on the MOST IMPORTANT KIND of
#> Satanism: independents, solitaries, etc.;
#
# ...they're mentioned now. But no urls can be given for them,
# of course! ALL of the independents in SR have NO online urls -
# and no use for them!
interesting. there's a few around I'm sure. :>
# ...Who says that some Christians don't decide to [worship] that
# CHRISTIAN satan? SOME HAVE done that! ....
certainly true. proto-Satanists, de facto in some cases.
some of the stories aren't reliable.
I met a few of them during PRE-LaVey days in the 60s. Devil worshipers.
They called themselves satanists.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...MET a Christian Devil worshipping Satanist - self identified
# as a Satanist.
such individuals are not unknown to me. some orient this way for
a transitional period post-Christianity.
#> ...please
#> describe actual CoSatanist rituals and activities....
#
# You can see them on the TV shows where they presented themselves doing them.
I saw 'Satanism Today' listed on websites. some kind of cable show?
are there archives of these things for sale somewhere?
Don't know - ask Satan Shop. They showed one on the MSNBC thing with the
Gidneys on it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...it was the HP and CO 9 that INTIMIDATED their own members AGAINST
# giving me and the guy who made the project ANY essays....
thank you for clarifying that.
# That is REALLY what started the shit flying - the anti fascist stance
# and ME soliciting essays FOR the guy after Gilmore WARNED him against
# it. Then ME putting it on OUR website. Then the flames flew and the
# shit went down. In that order. That, plus a few other things.
and plus you had that letter he sent too which was sick-humour reference
to usenet nazy-metaphors. do you think he was trying to avoid you kinda
cramping his style? was he using this nazi-metaphor quite a bit through
the years for internal communiques? I didn't get that impression, or that
it was much more than a joke, possibly making light of neo-nazi factions.
If you mean that email, I was NOT one of the recipients of that. There was
no joke about it - he sent that TO people that he knew WOULD DO what he
asked them to do, LIKE storm troopers. Damn, tyagi - pay attention - I was
NOT one of the recipients of it. It got OUTED by one who WAS - that is how
I obtained it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> religious hypocrisy is rampant. nothing new there.
#
# Among people that declare that they hate hypocricy? ....
amongst all religious I've ever encountered, bar none, yes.
#>#> $| The Order of Nine Angles would be the only form of Satanism
#>#> $| out there that would conform to [a] Christian view, including
#>#> $| the view that Satanists engage in human sacrifice and other
#>#> $| such panic-inspiring ideas.
#> ...the ONA is not the ONLY form of Satanism which supports the
#> notion of human sacrifice. I do, for one, and that makes your
#> statement untrue.
#
# I can add you to that if you like - give me details in email so
# I can COPY PASTE. Note that if your URL has info that people
# can find (eg, Tos does NOT openly excplain Set).... then I can
# point to the URL and YOUR definition of human sacrifice (which
# is not really a normal definition of it!!) EMAIL it. I'll
# definitrely see it and get it faster.
will do, later tomorrow or something, thanks!
# Fixed that, mentioned independents - but there is nothing
# much ANYONE can say about them save to say they are independent. :)
depends on your interests. DVera pioneered it and I think it worthy
of repetition that Independent Satanists are alike to others in
that they all perceive some beneficial or advantageous relation to
whatever they associate with "Satan", else they wouldn't seek to be
known as somehow correlate to a 'Satanist' (even if an atheistic
adversarial type or a demonolater hoping for Armageddon deserts).
#> you might want to get to know some of those forms too.
#
# What for?
depends on your interests in reflecting the vast preponderance
of Satanists out there. somebody (you? someone else maybe) said
recently in usenet that Satanism is not popular culture. this
is possible to generalize into sociology also (Satanism is not
what grabs the most attention and locks into inverso-Christian
trajectories; it is also strewn with primarily anti-religious
and anti-Christian valences from the Black-Metal types, which
are definitely qualifiers, to the wild demonolaters hanging
out in goth clubs and communing with the Dark Side.
I can't relate to the inversion or anti christian or whatever types of
ANYTHING, whether they be clothed in satanic garb or atheistic garb. I keep
clear of people with a desire to rage AGAINST their own backgrounds or
culture or whatever. I can't relate to why they don't just bitch out their
parents and get done with it. I don't want to hear their noise. I avoid
them if I see them. They don't meet me, normally. Neither can I relate to
the inverso Islam out there, where people get distorted Mohammed words and
spend their own good time BITCHING about how horrible they are. I think
they see something of themselves IN that - hence the obsessions.
I have no desire to talk about that kind of shit. No desire to hear it.
I'd rather hear about Joan's new shoes.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I might be seen as individual - independent....
agreed. I figured that you were, that there wasn't any need
for adherence to the Dark Doctrines to make them valuable
within the experience at least of *yours*,
Right, you got it. It's not some BIG issue in my life as it is with people
who ARE religious - or even to people that get INTO the DDocs.

and that its
Post by SOD of the CoE
compelling authenticity was in part what drew the CoSatanist
Herd to put their weight behind it, at least temporarily.
Yes, until I said they could not longer use any of it. tyagi, I don't enjoy
talking about the DDOCS with anyone offline real life either. People that
HAVE come to visit me, did not talk about ANYTHING like that, while here. I
made it available for others, sure - and they might get INTO it. But to
think I'm "INTO" that would be a mistake. It's all very personal, and there
is really no mode of communication about such matters with anyone OUTSIDE
THE CULTURE - and then, people IN the culture seldom talk "about" that stuff
either :) It is useful information - it has helped people. Yes.
:>
Post by SOD of the CoE
that this body of work was the production of more than one
individual of course makes it more difficult to divide up
in so easy a manner, however. as such, whoever originates
them may somehow qualify (you said PMarsh is primarily an
atheist,
Correction - I said it. Phil HIMSELF says he has no religion. He's not an
atheist - he considers that a religion too. That is what he SAID, quote
unquote. Please keep up and do not assume I know what others believe. This
SHOULD give you an idea how much "religion" is NOT an issue Phil or I get
into or talk about. Phil can also do some of those siddhi things, the
yoga - but he does NOT regard that as religion at all. It's just something
he can do. If you want to know, my grandfather and I taught him that
stuff - because he was ABLE to do it. Like teaching a kid with good ears
and aptitude how to play an instrument - he already HAS the ability
ingrained in him.

for example; Hr. Vad appears solidly a Satanist
Post by SOD of the CoE
as long as I've known of him and interacted with him,
for the most part in friendly tones).
You'd have to ask him.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I am Satan. You are TALKING to the flame that burns
# IN the boundless Darkness. My take. Bottom line :)
an obvious explanation for your pro-Satanic orientation.
You could take it that way. :)
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># ...YOU are not the source for SR, CoS or ToS or any other
#># ORGANIZATION out there. Right? ...
#>
#> non-sequitur. I'm the source for Satanism insofar as I am
#> allied with, have pacted with, defend, and assist Satan to
#> the best of my ability and am attempting to clearly give
#> expression to the extant materials by actual Satanists.
#>
#> organizations, as I've said above, are NOT the core or the
#> centrality of Satanism. it is always the INDIVIDUAL who
# ...who is gonna want to know about "what satanic orgs are out there,
# what kind of satanism is out there" and FIND an independent solitary
# satanist? ....
presentation is everything.
# ...How do YOU know there aren't Jewish Satanists ....
I don't. I presume there are probably all kinds. I think you provided
me with a URL for one of your friends who so identifies. :>
# ...Independents DO NOT TEND to keep in touch....
correct. compare: solitary witches.
# ...the info for SR is way too Hindu [focussed] -
# it's misleading, I think. Hmm, note to self -
# SAY that on there. LOL.
good idea. in part I was hoping to draw you out to say more
in association with conventional Western terms how Sat-Tan
relates to whatever you do with it, and what this might be
in relation to Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and whatever
seems possibly comparable, afterwards. the comparisons are
only helpful to those who (like me, perhaps) have some
exposure to those ideas and terminologies, systems.
Well, none in the Sr have a problem understanding the doctrines, if they get
them, or the stuff on the SR website (the SR website - not the GoD one). So
it's not an issue .
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> at least our threads actually pertain to Satanism. ;>
#
# Heh, imagine that! on alt.satanism, too. WOW. ;-9
exemplary!
heh, typed this during the commercials - watching a GOOD SHOW here :)

Later.
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE
2004-12-14 22:28:36 UTC
Permalink
50041214 viii om Hail Satan!

bobo guesses one of two options (the other being worshipper):
#>#> you're ...a ...Knower of Darkness [Sat-Tan].

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
#># ...I do not worship anything.

bobo is curious and asks:
#> why not? how do CoSatanists usually worship themselves?
#> why isn't the Dark Flame worthy of your worship?

"Tani Jantsang" <***@SPAMpost.com>:
# The Dark Flame is worthy of having it flowing within and back
# to the darkness of its origin - and doing that is only a
# matter of ENJOYING life, inner peace, and so forth.

applied philosophy ('enjoying life') or metaphysics (sat-tan).
ok, thanks. you seem to be talking, roughly, about prana or
kundalini, which I'll now suppose until I understand how it
may be different. is this similar to how CoSatanists
worship themselves? might there be any cross-over?

#>#> secondary status of societal acceptance.
#>#> it is comparable to the Christian intention to
#>#> convince me that what I'm worshipping *is* the
#>#> anti-God

impression, cf. Pascal's Wager. not individual-based.

#># But your Satan is NOT the anti-God at all

if all you meant was "to Christians" then this seems
primarily to depend upon which Christians. they vary,
and my study of the Christian 'satanism' does indicate
that the shifting target of the Bogey *is* wild nature
(uncontrolled natural things, regardless of whatever
characterization Christians may provide to it, such as
'evil' or 'supernatural'). if YOU disagree with this,
please explain why.

I've already spoken with Christians about it and don't
expect them ever to agree, primarily because it is my
impression that they have a confused and fallacious
cosmology, and are prone to paranoid demonization. ;>

#> actually, SHe is, in spots. :>
#>
#># You worship The Creation - in strictest Christian terms!
#>
#> what convinces you of the truth of these Christian terms?
#
# Nature itself. The cosmos itself. That is the "creation"
# in their own religion, in strict theological terms.
# Whether they are wrong or not about it being created
# (we say it was emanated) is not the point. No one can
# doubt that the cosmos DOES exist....

I don't follow your logic. why are you a Creationist?
if you are not one, why do you bother mentioning these
Christian terms? I don't require that those who use the
Bogey of Satan to oppose wild nature agree with me.
did you think that for some reason this agreement
was needed or important? if so, why?

#> and what about Ahriman?
#
# Please see this for Ahriman and how a non-dual Persian tradition
# became the first dualism involving "good/evil" gods:
# http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-persian-dualism.html

thus my contention that Set isn't the proto-Satan in the sense
of the anti-God. Ahriman is a far better candidate. check into
the history of the personification of evil through time.

#># ...They most definitely DO have doctrines (teachings) - the
#># philosophy of Anton and exploration of that.
#>
#> neither the fact of doctrinal existence, nor the fact that some may
#> be told that adherence to such standards will be required of them
#> is demonstration that this is the litmus-gate of membership.
#
# ..."anyone that chooses to adhere to doctrines other than those
# of Anton Lavey, can hand in their membership card and leave
# the COS." You have the files. Read them.

written to Tani&Co as I recall. sociopolitical maneuvering.
the defining qualities of such adherence are administered
by the organization. why be a member if one doesn't like the
expressions of the former high priest? even if you choose
CoS, and wanna pay your $200, then why should they keep you
out of the church? maybe you're a newbi pupa-Satanist. see
above regarding these two uses of doctrine (repulsion and
attraction -- you don't appear to recogize this usage).

your files weren't convincing, sorry, maybe the later
sending (more files? I deleted it) has the goods. please
point to where CoS publically says that it requires
'doctrinal adherence to the works of Anton LaVey' as a
condition of membership. I'd not be TOO surprised if so,
but it seems that what you are talking about, and seem
to be misunderstanding, is the use of doctrine or extreme
assertion to BOOT OR REPEL UNWANTED MEMBERS (and withdraw
honourary titles), rather than used as a requirement in
accepting new members. coherent corrections welcomed,
preferrably succinct and direct information rather than
logs and chats without direct response to my inquiry.

#># Doing kundalini yoga is not ritual. You DO it.
#>
#> what does it include? how is it Satanic by some explanation?
#
# It doesn't have to be satanic.

so you don't know that it is or don't know how it is?

# To brand it by a label is to not understand it.

people do it all the time. you say it has lengthy history,
so what nonunderstanding names have people given it? you've
been clear in identifying "the Dark Force" with "the Void",
"Mahakala", and any number of other beings, plus energetic
analogues like chi and prana. as such, this is inference
and direction from those around you who believe it so.

through time and in many instances you have sought to get
this accepted within the Satanist community as something
related to or rationally identified as 'Satan', going so
far as to construct a folk etymology of 'Sat Tan' which
distracts from reliable sources and information. sometimes
this changes and you say it doesn't really qualify as
'Satanic'. I'm just asking how Sat-Tanic = Satanic. if it
doesn't, fine.

# Is breathing satanic?

if it is engaging one's wild nature, sure. obviously.
from your perspective it certainly should be Sat-Tanic,
because prana *is* directly supposed related to pranayama.

about your Mahakalan grand-dad:
#># ...Sure he passed it down to me.
#>
#> was it some kind of ceremony that passed it? was it genetic?
#> did he pass it down to you intentionally?
#
# In some ways yes, in other ways no. If I tended to know something,
# or arrive at something - he would show me that this is the same as
# the doctrines or cultural practices. Maybe it is genetic, I have no
# idea. No ceremony. I know when he had a hard time explaining
# something to a person that didn't speak anything BUT English, he'[d#
# ask me to explain it.

compare the Harry Potter 'wizards' vs the 'mudbloods'. or 'mutants'
in comic books. thus, maybe "a born Satanist", which you claim ASL
proclaimed about you. given what I've seen you do in argument and
in reflection of data you claim to possess about the CoS, you may
well have taken it out of context as a reflection of your contentions
regarding your background (just having described them), thinking
that it was an evaluation when instead it was a reflection on the
description of your condition. to explain more clearly....

the general interaction might have gone something like this:

A: How did you become a Satanist?

T: I've always been one.

A: You didn't have to do anything to become one?

T: No, I was recognized by my family when young as one.

A: I see, so you were born a Satanist.

i.e. it clarifies within conversation a condition being claimed.
it is possible that you misunderstood this as recognition. absent
a record or witnesses to the interaction, the case is ambiguous.

#> do those of his lineage acknowledge you as a lineage-holder in
#> some sense representative or grounded in their lamaist, or
#> whathaveyou, tradition?
#
# Heh, it doesn't work that way. They obviously don't consider
# the Islamics in the family part of the tradition, if that's
# what you mean.

I was asking about whether there was more than your having been
born and experiencing things with your family that constituted
your Sat-Tanism (inherited condition fabricated in relation to
Satanism as a kind of pseudo-Satanism).

#>#># Set comes next ....
#>#>
#>#> the Temple of Set isn't connected with anything extant in a
#>#> social sense either. it is also a Neopagan construct after
#>#> the excellent construction.... of Setian HP Michael Aquino....
#>
#> do you think Aquino was contacted by extant survivals of
#> ancient priestly lineages worshipping Set? in the flesh?
#
# I have no idea. Maybe he was.

maybe Budge wrote about those too? :>

# I think you are too focused on priestly LINEAGES.

only with those who maintain that they are a priest of a god
of some culture of which they are not part. the subsequent
claim that what they are doing is "old" would require that
they have some kind of social connect in time. if it isn't
founded in anything social, then based on the previous
worship of the same god, it is Neopaganism. so my focus
is shifting depending upon the nature of the claims made.

# Were St. Augistine's kids also Bishops?

I don't understand the relevance of the question.
do you think of Augustine as a saint? if so,
what does this mean to you? are you a saint too?

#># The order in which the stuff is presented will remain - tho
#># it HAS been updated.
#>
#> kind of like Crowley teaching yoga after Patanjali and a meeting
#> with a yogi and some experiments on his own, discussions with
#> his Buddhist instructor?

requires no actual training, it is a kind of manifested authority,
probably just because of the extraordinary condition of the
aspirant. if the aspirant's expressions and general demeanor
don't really jibe with the general character described by the
extant religiomystical traditions which feature it, then this
may be ignored by those interested in mapping it ("unknown").

#> eventually I'll be provided with a free CoSatanic membership,
#> even if post-mortem.
#
# How about a free TOS membership?

they don't allow dual-memberships in religious orgs (I'm a lifetim
member (the SOD) of the Church of Euthanasia (CoE)), and I didn't
like the way that Aquino interacted with me in usenet. we agreed
that I probably wouldn't find it that valuable. usually I have
to be drawn to some kind of membership. it has to be valuable to
me in order to pursue it. i.e. my engagement of it must usually
serve some purpose. it appears that some of these associations
are being formed in order to struggle with extant churches.

# Or an SR membership?

no interest, I don't agree with all your points (we covered that,
you don't go far enough in service to Satan), and I don't think
that y'all believe them consistently anyways or that I would
benefit from such an association.

# You told me ages ago in hard copy that you kinda wanted them
# to hand you that.

I said I'd forego ever paying for CoS membership and instead work
on behalf of Satanism. the egotistic assertion that this would
occur would require recognition of my work, which may actually
never occur. org-membership seems to me more of an ordeal if it
is not something awarded by a courting body. in part my statements
were egotistic assertion, and in part admiration for what
Past-Magister LaVey did for the cause of Satanism (excellent).

#># I couldn't stand the idea that they'd go to so much trouble to PREVENT Egan
#># from simply making another org of his own. They persecuted him. They
#># prevented him from getting on tV to speak about HIS form of Satanism, too.

#># ...It was withdrawn when I said they could no longer use a word from
#># us in ANY of their stuff.
#>
#> and your withdrawal was in response to the "Is Fascism Satanic?"
#> compilation being squelched.
#
# No, my withdrawal was in response to the trashing I gave them
# online and the copies of all of it I made sure Barton got in
# the mail - 4 packages worth of it. The summary of that is in
# the file I sent you.

THAT was your withdrawal, it wasn't a response to their action
as you describe above. in effect, it struck out, like Aquino did
prior, and Tim Stewart and HP Gilmore rightly identified, telling
Tani&Co to put up or shut up. that's what I got from those files.

nothing else was said in those files I noticed pertaining to
what convinced you that you'd been removed. I didn't see any
letter informing you that you no longer had your CoS title
that you'd just used for the first time to struggle with CoS.
I gather you received one, but never saw evidence of it.

#># I worship nothing - in the sense you mean worship....
#
#># ...There is nothing neo-pagan about DDocs. It's as far from that
#># as it is from monotheism. The entire paradigm is just too different.
#>
#> its paradigm or integrity with respect to extant or previous peoples
#> is less important to me in an evaluation of its Neopaganism as
#> compared with its overt societal connection.

# Huh?

it doesn't originate within the cultures from which you draw in order
to explain your ideology except extended with genetic ties. it draws
from them, abstractly, in some kind of explanation of your genetic
inheritance. does the lamaist religious system from which you have
been descended recognize adepts who are offspring of its members?
or do they require integration to the society of mystics/religious?

#>#> ...actual CoSatanist rituals and activities....
#>#
#># You can see them on the TV shows where they presented themselves
#># doing them.

# ...ask Satan Shop. They showed one on the MSNBC thing
# with the Gidneys on it.

thanks.

#># ...it was the HP and CO 9 that INTIMIDATED their own members AGAINST
#># giving me and the guy who made the project ANY essays....

I saw no evidence of this. in fact, it seems that few members other
than Tani&Co actually were asked. once Tani&Co convinced Tim Stewart
to collect posts from usenet, then began attempting to convince CoS
members to abandon the org because it was being infiltrated by some
fascist faction (undemonstrated and asked about several times by
HP Gilmore, eventually convincing Tim Stewart that the effort was
some kind of factionalist incursion from Tani&Co from which he then
separated).

#> ...was he using this nazi-metaphor quite a bit through
#> the years for internal communiques?

# ...There was no joke about it....

apparently you didn't perceive the humour (his, private). maybe
your "NKVD" (/"NaKiVeD") and People's Commisar identification
'jokes' aren't perceived as humour (public expression). at times
what is intended as joke or as support for a small assertion is
interpreted incorrectly as implying something more than what was
meant in the expression (you say you're not Stalinist, HP Gilmore
says that there is no fascist faction trying to take over the
CoS -- something maintained by Tani&Co in Tim's "survey"; if you
wish to be believed, why not believe HP Gilmore? this seems
intentionally misconstrued on your part, as do other things).

re independents:
#>#> you might want to get to know some of those forms too.
#>#
#># What for?
#>
#> depends on your interests in reflecting the vast preponderance
#> of Satanists out there....

you (/SRs) have a web-page which presumes to present
'types of Satanism', which is why I mentioned this.

# I can't relate to the inversion or anti christian or whatever ....

non-sequitur. we were discussing clarity of reflection,
not what kinds of Satanism (as compared with your Sat-Tan)
you might be able to relate to. if you made clear that the
'types of Satanism' reflected on the page were 'those with
which I can relate', then that might be more accurate.

# I have no desire to talk about that kind of shit. No desire
# to hear it. I'd rather hear about Joan's new shoes.

then perhaps this is what you ought to put on that web page,
rather than to mislead people into simplistic beliefs. this
is all I was suggesting to you -- for integrity/coherence.

#> and that its compelling authenticity was in part what
#> drew the CoSatanist Herd to put their weight behind it,
#> at least temporarily.
#
# Yes, until I said they could not longer use any of it....

more complicated than that. Tani&Co engaged in splitting
divergences over the issue of fascism in CoS and the church
didn't like this, telling you all to either put up or shut
up -- which Tim Stewart did, turing against you and outing
your role in the construction of the "survey". this much
is clear within the files you sent my way.

re the "Dark Doctrines" Tani&Co created over time:
# ...It's all very personal, and there is really no mode of
# communication about such matters with anyone OUTSIDE
# THE CULTURE....

yes, this gives me reason to wonder why you think it relates
to Satan except in your fabrications of 'Sat Tan' (made up
to relate to 'Satan', which it doesn't, from what I can tell).

# ... Phil HIMSELF says he has no religion. He's not an atheist
# - he considers that a religion too.

your expression about this has varied over time. previously you
claimed he was 'struggling with his atheism' or something akin.

# ...how much "religion" is NOT an issue Phil or I get into or
# talk about. Phil can also do some of those siddhi things, the
# yoga - but he does NOT regard that as religion at all. It's
# just something he can do. If you want to know, my grandfather
# and I taught him that stuff - because he was ABLE to do it.

again, please explain its relation to Satan. I see none. you
use the fabricated 'Sat Tan' as a means of fabricating a link
to Satanism, but this seems to be Bait and Switch. thanks
for your reflections on your kundalini yoga abilities.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang ©
2004-12-15 07:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE
50041214 viii om Hail Satan!
#>#> you're ...a ...Knower of Darkness [Sat-Tan].
#># ...I do not worship anything.
#> why not? how do CoSatanists usually worship themselves?
#> why isn't the Dark Flame worthy of your worship?
# The Dark Flame is worthy of having it flowing within and back
# to the darkness of its origin - and doing that is only a
# matter of ENJOYING life, inner peace, and so forth.
applied philosophy ('enjoying life') or metaphysics (sat-tan).
ok, thanks. you seem to be talking, roughly, about prana or
kundalini, which I'll now suppose until I understand how it
may be different. is this similar to how CoSatanists
worship themselves? might there be any cross-over?
Yes, I'm talking about what you just said. No COSatanists don't know the
practice, don't do the practice, never even heard of the practice till they
heard of it from us and there is absolutely no cross over. I believe we
made that clear? You are asking me about THEM - engaging me in conversation
about THEM, round and round and round we go.

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html
Post by SOD of the CoE
#>#> secondary status of societal acceptance.
#>#> it is comparable to the Christian intention to
#>#> convince me that what I'm worshipping *is* the
#>#> anti-God
impression, cf. Pascal's Wager. not individual-based.
#># But your Satan is NOT the anti-God at all
if all you meant was "to Christians" then this seems
primarily to depend upon which Christians. they vary,
and my study of the Christian 'satanism' does indicate
that the shifting target of the Bogey *is* wild nature
(uncontrolled natural things, regardless of whatever
characterization Christians may provide to it, such as
'evil' or 'supernatural'). if YOU disagree with this,
please explain why.
I already did, but you snipped it out and pleased stupidity on biological
matters. This is y our problem, not mine. I already explained it
thoroughly. You missed it.

There is no anti god. There is only "ONE Darkness and within it is the
flame or ray of light". It is one thing - not two things. There is no way
to oppose that except to oppose the "what is" - and that is not possible.
People who try, make their own lives into a living hell Period. I
absolutely know this. There is no debate possible.
Post by SOD of the CoE
I've already spoken with Christians about it and don't
expect them ever to agree, primarily because it is my
impression that they have a confused and fallacious
cosmology, and are prone to paranoid demonization. ;>
You are trying to engage me in conversations about religion and I already
told you I never talk to people on MY TIME about that. If you feel like
engaging Christians, go ahead. Do NOT attempt to drag me into it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> actually, SHe is, in spots. :>
#>
#># You worship The Creation - in strictest Christian terms!
#>
#> what convinces you of the truth of these Christian terms?
#
# Nature itself. The cosmos itself. That is the "creation"
# in their own religion, in strict theological terms.
# Whether they are wrong or not about it being created
# (we say it was emanated) is not the point. No one can
# doubt that the cosmos DOES exist....
I don't follow your logic.
I know you don't. But professors of theology would have no problem
following it.

why are you a Creationist?

Again, you show you failed to read. I am an EMANATIONIST. How many times
need you be spoon fed something before you finally catch on?
Post by SOD of the CoE
if you are not one, why do you bother mentioning these
Christian terms?
Because I know a hell of a lot more theologians than you do - real ones.
These are not Christian terms. They are the terms of those that have a
creation (and not an emenation) belief. All agree, except the extreme
dualists (which I mentioned to you once before when you didn't quite catch
on, probably because I summed up reams of dualist thought in two
sentences...), all agree that the entire COSMOS, and all in it - is The
Creation. To defame IT - is to defame their God's works.

I don't require that those who use the
Post by SOD of the CoE
Bogey of Satan to oppose wild nature agree with me.
did you think that for some reason this agreement
was needed or important? if so, why?
Your definition of wild nature is a joke. You know nothing about biology -
and don't consider that H. sapiens, when in certain conditions - does
exactly what he/she is doing right now - and that this constitutes WILD
NATURE - the nature of H. sapiens in THESE conditions.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> and what about Ahriman?
#
# Please see this for Ahriman and how a non-dual Persian tradition
# http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-persian-dualism.html
thus my contention that Set isn't the proto-Satan in the sense
of the anti-God. Ahriman is a far better candidate. check into
the history of the personification of evil through time.
The Egyptians were not exposed to the Ahriman concept. The Hebrews were. I
gave you the source - Budge - and quoted him. Set is definitely not any
kind of prototypical anti god - even if you figure in the times when Osiris
was Set's enemy. Many times Set was NOT Osiris's enemy. Ahriman is the
first exacmple of dualism as the article shows, and they also, those
Persians (Aryas) decided to call the entire Turan race "the children of
ahriman." It was simple cultural demonification done by stupid idiots.
Today, the Persians wear towels on their heads and bow down to Allah three
times a day. They are fundamentalist Moslems. I'm not surprised.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># ...They most definitely DO have doctrines (teachings) - the
#># philosophy of Anton and exploration of that.
#>
#> neither the fact of doctrinal existence, nor the fact that some may
#> be told that adherence to such standards will be required of them
#> is demonstration that this is the litmus-gate of membership.
Yes it is - it's on their website. Go read it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#
# ..."anyone that chooses to adhere to doctrines other than those
# of Anton Lavey, can hand in their membership card and leave
# the COS." You have the files. Read them.
written to Tani&Co as I recall. sociopolitical maneuvering.
No, written in their own official publications and on their website. I
resent the use of Tani and Company. There are two things here - Stewart and
company and disgruntled COS members and company. I'm the last person on the
list. I just somehow made the biggest impact on certain people - gee, why
is that?

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html
Post by SOD of the CoE
the defining qualities of such adherence are administered
by the organization. why be a member if one doesn't like the
expressions of the former high priest?
I agree with that. I also asked Ole Wolf why he joined them when he could
have simply asked me if the stuff that was OURS was also THEIRS. I'd have
told him. NO. Many many people asked me that. I told them the truth. Our
stuff is independent and separate and not reliant on a thing of theirs. That
simple. Why did any of these people stick around and complain to me about
being bullied? Why didn't they just leave? Good question. I simply
forwarded their complaints to P and P. They finally asked me to get these
people to provide some solid proof. I did that. That should have been the
end of it.

Why they bothered with what Stewart was doing is unknown to me - but I do
remember exactly who bothered him - and who dragged me into it.
(dead/jail).

even if you choose
Post by SOD of the CoE
CoS, and wanna pay your $200, then why should they keep you
out of the church?
Why are you asking me this?

maybe you're a newbi pupa-Satanist. see
Post by SOD of the CoE
above regarding these two uses of doctrine (repulsion and
attraction -- you don't appear to recogize this usage).
I don't know or CARE what their policies are. Get that thru your little
skull. They loved our stuff. We did not even like their stuff. We
actively DISliked it. Got it?
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html
Post by SOD of the CoE
your files weren't convincing, sorry, maybe the later
sending (more files? I deleted it) has the goods. please
point to where CoS publically says that it requires
'doctrinal adherence to the works of Anton LaVey' as a
condition of membership. I'd not be TOO surprised if so,
Go fetch it yourself on their website. For instance, the complete trashing
of the entire Might is Right thing (1/4 of their own bible) was "not in
keeping with the philosophy of LaVey" right there. I didn't have to keep
with anything. I was not a member of their club. Our stuff is separate, no
cross overs. They loved our stuff. We actively disliked their stuff:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html
Post by SOD of the CoE
but it seems that what you are talking about, and seem
to be misunderstanding, is the use of doctrine or extreme
assertion to BOOT OR REPEL UNWANTED MEMBERS (and withdraw
honourary titles), rather than used as a requirement in
accepting new members. coherent corrections welcomed,
Your statement is not clear. You need to straighten your thoughts out and
read what I've pointed you to - which is proven by published documents,
copyrighted and all. Written in stone. "Don't pick on them, wait until the
check clears first." Priestess Ygraine, COS. Since I wasn't a member, why
would I care? You seem to think the title meant something. Perhaps that
title meant more to them than it ever meant to me. I fail to see how
something never used at any time means something. But I can clearly see how
material used all the time, in every single issue, does not mean something
to them. Once again:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html

Btw, J. Mueller is one of the hard ass founders - he's not too friendly to
people ...... LIKE YOU.
Post by SOD of the CoE
preferrably succinct and direct information rather than
logs and chats without direct response to my inquiry.
The logs and chats are between people and Priests and Magisters in the COS.
These logs and chats talk about things that happened offline often in
person, PRIOR to anything online. You miss them at your own choice. You
don't want to know. So stop asking me.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#># Doing kundalini yoga is not ritual. You DO it.
#>
#> what does it include? how is it Satanic by some explanation?
#
# It doesn't have to be satanic.
so you don't know that it is or don't know how it is?
Perhaps I choose NOT to tell you, Tyagi. Kundalini yoga and the siddhi are
the only real black magic out there. People are NOT likely to talk about
what they come to know from that - or what they can do with it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# To brand it by a label is to not understand it.
people do it all the time. you say it has lengthy history,
so what nonunderstanding names have people given it? you've
been clear in identifying "the Dark Force" with "the Void",
"Mahakala", and any number of other beings, plus energetic
analogues like chi and prana. as such, this is inference
and direction from those around you who believe it so.
through time and in many instances you have sought to get
this accepted within the Satanist community
I have not sought to get anything. It is what it is. To many in SR, for
instance, those things I call by foreign names - ARE SATAN. I already told
you this. Do you think that nagging is going to get SR people on usenet to
talk to you? Wrong. It did inspire one to make a new article, tho. What
we have to say regarding Satan, is on our website and in monographs.

as something
Post by SOD of the CoE
related to or rationally identified as 'Satan', going so
far as to construct a folk etymology of 'Sat Tan' which
distracts from reliable sources and information.
I found that pun long after and decided to use it. I told you that. Uh,
files I sent you were from Stewart's project - so you could clearly see
exactly what he had on HIS website that was so objected to. You deleted
them after asking about them. Great, Tyagi. You are the person Parmenides
is speaking about, twin headed, going in circles. And you seek to drag ME
around in circles.

sometimes
Post by SOD of the CoE
this changes and you say it doesn't really qualify as
'Satanic'. I'm just asking how Sat-Tanic = Satanic. if it
doesn't, fine.
# Is breathing satanic?
if it is engaging one's wild nature, sure. obviously.
from your perspective it certainly should be Sat-Tanic,
because prana *is* directly supposed related to pranayama.
#># ...Sure he passed it down to me.
#>
#> was it some kind of ceremony that passed it? was it genetic?
#> did he pass it down to you intentionally?
#
# In some ways yes, in other ways no. If I tended to know something,
# or arrive at something - he would show me that this is the same as
# the doctrines or cultural practices. Maybe it is genetic, I have no
# idea. No ceremony. I know when he had a hard time explaining
# something to a person that didn't speak anything BUT English, he'[d#
# ask me to explain it.
compare the Harry Potter 'wizards' vs the 'mudbloods'. or 'mutants'
Don't know about it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
in comic books. thus, maybe "a born Satanist", which you claim ASL
proclaimed about you. given what I've seen you do in argument and
in reflection of data you claim to possess about the CoS, you may
well have taken it out of context as a reflection of your contentions
What Anton Lavey knew is certainly not the stupid shit you see on usenet.
And he knew nothing about my background at all. Seeing "me" in some files
(keeping in mind that I did not WRITE those files! - or did you forget
that...), was not an option. People in my culture have a tradition - and
it is very easy to "recognize" a CHILD that has this or that ability if you
know what to look for. It's very easy to see it in a child because children
blurt out everything. Adults know how to hide things. That is why I
compare it to music and good ears. Guess you missed that. You also managed
to miss the idea that the DDocs were around before LaVey heard of me. Sure,
he considered me a born Satanist. But I did not consider HIM one. Got it?
LaVey didn't know anything about my background. He saw some DDocs.
Post by SOD of the CoE
regarding your background (just having described them), thinking
that it was an evaluation when instead it was a reflection on the
description of your condition. to explain more clearly....
Just explained. He knew nothing about me personally like that. You seem to
think that his evaluations of anything, including people, mean something to
me? You gotta be kidding.
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html
Post by SOD of the CoE
A: How did you become a Satanist?
T: I've always been one.
There was never any question or answer with Lavey and me. You are inventing
fantasy - like my enemies do.
Post by SOD of the CoE
i.e. it clarifies within conversation a condition being claimed.
it is possible that you misunderstood this as recognition. absent
a record or witnesses to the interaction, the case is ambiguous.
You sound like a jealous little boy. No such thing ever happened. He saw
DDocs, I sent some to him. He came to that conclusion.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> do those of his lineage acknowledge you as a lineage-holder in
#> some sense representative or grounded in their lamaist, or
#> whathaveyou, tradition?
#
# Heh, it doesn't work that way. They obviously don't consider
# the Islamics in the family part of the tradition, if that's
# what you mean.
I was asking about whether there was more than your having been
born and experiencing things with your family that constituted
your Sat-Tanism (inherited condition fabricated in relation to
Satanism as a kind of pseudo-Satanism).
You are confused. there is MUCH about me that showed that as a child I knew
what Makahala was - and certain other things that no one COULD know unless
they remembered it directly. And yes, I said remembered it. I got the pun
Sat and Tan pretty late in the game. But long before that pun was used, the
Dark Tradition was SATANISM. Period. In some people's views - the ONLY
Satanism out there! That's their opinion.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#>#># Set comes next ....
#>#>
#>#> the Temple of Set isn't connected with anything extant in a
#>#> social sense either. it is also a Neopagan construct after
#>#> the excellent construction.... of Setian HP Michael Aquino....
#>
#> do you think Aquino was contacted by extant survivals of
#> ancient priestly lineages worshipping Set? in the flesh?
#
# I have no idea. Maybe he was.
maybe Budge wrote about those too? :>
Why don't you ask him . Why are you asking ME?
Post by SOD of the CoE
# I think you are too focused on priestly LINEAGES.
only with those who maintain that they are a priest of a god
of some culture of which they are not part. the subsequent
claim that what they are doing is "old" would require that
they have some kind of social connect in time. if it isn't
founded in anything social, then based on the previous
worship of the same god, it is Neopaganism. so my focus
is shifting depending upon the nature of the claims made.
Ask Aquino about Aquino's business. I just told you about me. DO NOT ask
me again.
Post by SOD of the CoE
THAT was your withdrawal,
Yes, it was my withdrawal - but it was rather a withdrawal from nothing at
all. For you to grasp the ENORMITY of that little quip - again:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html

it wasn't a response to their action
Post by SOD of the CoE
as you describe above. in effect, it struck out, like Aquino did
prior, and Tim Stewart and HP Gilmore rightly identified, telling
Tani&Co to put up or shut up.
No, you are confusing Tim Stewart with the other matter. You confuse
yourself a lot. I think you try to get to the A to Z without going thru the
bcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz - and that's just not possible. Tim Stewart wrote
nothing at all that anyone in the cos should have intimidated him about. I
posted what he had on his site - and by whom. I also sent you the entirety
in email. Go read it. Why they'd object to Tim's project is for you to
figure out (can you add 2 plus 2?)
Post by SOD of the CoE
that's what I got from those files.
You got nothing from them, then. You got confused. You are mixing up two
separate things.
Post by SOD of the CoE
nothing else was said in those files I noticed pertaining to
what convinced you that you'd been removed.
Removed from what?
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html

I didn't see any
Post by SOD of the CoE
letter informing you that you no longer had your CoS title
that you'd just used for the first time to struggle with CoS.
I gather you received one, but never saw evidence of it.
You want to see the certificate? I can xerox it and mail it to you.
Post by SOD of the CoE
it doesn't originate within the cultures from which you draw in order
to explain your ideology except extended with genetic ties. it draws
from them, abstractly, in some kind of explanation of your genetic
inheritance. does the lamaist religious system from which you have
been descended recognize adepts who are offspring of its members?
Yes - sometimes, if they are adepts. They recognize adepts when they are
pretty young because what they can do, what they know, is blaringly
obvious - since they know what they are looking for. Compare to music -
good ears.
Post by SOD of the CoE
or do they require integration to the society of mystics/religious?
No. Not in the USA. In the old days, sometimes.
Post by SOD of the CoE
I saw no evidence of this. in fact, it seems that few members other
than Tani&Co actually were asked. once Tani&Co convinced Tim Stewart
You are terribly confused here. Tim was doing no such thing. This is all
clearly and calmly explained on website. Go read it. Peter wrote that
letter to Tim - and Tim was afraid to continue his project about fascism.
Period. Tani and company had nothning to do with his own original idea -
which he had long before I ever heard of it.
Post by SOD of the CoE
to collect posts from usenet, then began attempting to convince CoS
members to abandon the org because it was being infiltrated by some
fascist faction
What? Tim Stewart never did or said any such thing! Neither did anyone
else! It's all up on the website to read. You'll have to "crack the books"
Tyagi, since you ignored the attached essays I mailed you.

(undemonstrated and asked about several times by
Post by SOD of the CoE
HP Gilmore, eventually convincing Tim Stewart that the effort was
some kind of factionalist incursion from Tani&Co from which he then
separated).
That is indeed what Gilmore indimidated Tim Stewart with. But that is
pretty far from reality. But what Tim Stewart wrote was indeed, not that at
all - and the essays collected are not that at all. Go read them. You tell
me why ANYONE would object to his project. Go ahead.
Post by SOD of the CoE
#> ...was he using this nazi-metaphor quite a bit through
#> the years for internal communiques?
# ...There was no joke about it....
apparently you didn't perceive the humour (his, private). maybe
your "NKVD" (/"NaKiVeD") and People's Commisar identification
'jokes' aren't perceived as humour (public expression). at times
what is intended as joke or as support for a small assertion is
interpreted incorrectly as implying something more than what was
meant in the expression (you say you're not Stalinist, HP Gilmore
says that there is no fascist faction trying to take over the
CoS -- something maintained by Tani&Co in Tim's "survey"; if you
No, that is not contended in Tim's essay or in any of the essays on there.
This is the product of someone's delusion. Why the person HAD that delusion
is for you to figure out.
Post by SOD of the CoE
wish to be believed, why not believe HP Gilmore? this seems
intentionally misconstrued on your part, as do other things).
That is becasue you are deliberately confusing things and very much so.
There is nothing anti COS in Tim's project about fascism. That Gilmore came
down on him so hard (and I did sent you or post the ORIGINAL email with NO
editorials in it) - is unfathomable!
Post by SOD of the CoE
#>#> you might want to get to know some of those forms too.
#>#
#># What for?
#>
#> depends on your interests in reflecting the vast preponderance
#> of Satanists out there....
Mrs. Flowers is writing another book. Featured in her book, will be a great
deal about the SRs. I could care less what you put on some usenet archives.
Falsehoods abound on usenet - from what I can see, due to people that can't
read too well. Like you. .
Post by SOD of the CoE
you (/SRs) have a web-page which presumes to present
'types of Satanism', which is why I mentioned this.
No, the GoD has a website that talks about and points to various forms of
Satanism. That information is not on the SR org website.
Post by SOD of the CoE
then perhaps this is what you ought to put on that web page,
rather than to mislead people into simplistic beliefs. this
is all I was suggesting to you -- for integrity/coherence.
There is absolutely noting on the GoD page that misleads anyone - it
includes the various org websites where serious people WILL go to find out
from first hand org sources - which is something you need to learn to do.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# Yes, until I said they could not longer use any of it....
more complicated than that.
No, not more complicated -
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html

Tani&Co engaged in splitting
Post by SOD of the CoE
divergences over the issue of fascism in CoS and the church
No Tani and company did nothing of the sort. Tim Stewart did nothing of the
sort. You are horribly confused - and as usual, one more usenet waste of
time out there confusing issues. Let serious people come to the org
websites and read for themselves.
Post by SOD of the CoE
didn't like this, telling you all to either put up or shut
up -- which Tim Stewart did, turing against you and outing
your role in the construction of the "survey". this much
is clear within the files you sent my way.
Tim said I got people to hand in essays for him. Indeed I did - some of them
were PRO fascist, too. When he tried to do it on his own, ask for essays,
he got threatened, intimidated, mocked out, and got no essays. Why would
anyone object to these essays? Go read them. Gilmore effectively did tell
Tim to shut up - but why - that is the real question. Go read the article
"Is Fascism Satanic" - or read the attached files I mailed you which were
the MAIN files Gilmore saw when Tim had this on his own site. What is there
to object to, Tyagi? What? You can not discuss this with me UNTIL you have
read what Tim had up there thoroughly. Otherwise, you remain very
confused - and will do nothing but confuse others (typical usenet troll
behavior).
Post by SOD of the CoE
your expression about this has varied over time. previously you
claimed he was 'struggling with his atheism' or something akin.
You listen to what I think Phil believes rather than listen to Phil on what
Phil believes? You are then, in J. Mueller's definition, a complete moron.
Thnis should inform uyou that Phil and I DO NOT talk about religion enough
for me to even KNOW what he'd define himself to be. But no, you don't
deduce that given the fact that I don't talk religion with people.
Post by SOD of the CoE
# ...how much "religion" is NOT an issue Phil or I get into or
# talk about. Phil can also do some of those siddhi things, the
# yoga - but he does NOT regard that as religion at all. It's
# just something he can do. If you want to know, my grandfather
# and I taught him that stuff - because he was ABLE to do it.
again, please explain its relation to Satan. I see none.
Right. YOU see none You have never DONE these things, then. Heh! If you
did, then you'd see. Satan is a word in the English language now, yes?
You'd see.

You seem to be a usenet troll after all. You ask questions, but do not want
the answers. You just invent the answers and go on that.

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/clearair.html
Post by SOD of the CoE
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
2004-12-16 03:54:01 UTC
Permalink
50041215 viii om Hail Satan!

bobo:
#> ...even if you choose CoS, and wanna pay your $200, then why should
#> they keep you out of the church?

Tani:
# Why are you asking me this?

because you seem not to be able to discern between litmus gateways to
membership based on doctrines (i.e. 'Do you believe in the writings
of Anton Szandor LaVey? []YES []NO (If you check no, don't apply.)),
and doctrinal assertions intended to repel current members after they
have already paid their $200 (i.e. 'You are hereby encouraged, since
you do not actually believe in the writings of Anton Szandor LaVey,
to discontinue your membership in the Church of Satan, turn in your
membership card, and desist in your communications with us. Thanks.")

I'm just helping you to orient is all. that's called a 'rhetorical'
question, Tani. sometimes I like to respond to them as if they are not
rhetorical, ignore sarcasm, humour, whatever. it can be instructive.

# Btw, J. Mueller is one of the hard ass founders - he's not too
# friendly to people ...... LIKE YOU.

it isn't intentional, I assure you. :> you and I just speak frankly
and sometimes step on each other's toes in debates.

#> through time and in many instances you have sought to get
#> this accepted within the Satanist community

# ...Do you think that nagging is going to get SR people on usenet to
# talk to you?....

I never got that impression or had that in mind, no.

# ...twin headed, going in circles. And you seek to drag ME around
# in circles.

LOL! better know when to get off then.

#>#> do you think Aquino was contacted by extant survivals of
#>#> ancient priestly lineages worshipping Set? in the flesh?
#>#
#># I have no idea. Maybe he was.
#>
#> maybe Budge wrote about those too? :>
#
# Why don't you ask him . Why are you asking ME?

Budge? LOL!

#> I didn't see any
#> letter informing you that you no longer had your CoS title
#> that you'd just used for the first time to struggle with CoS.
#> I gather you received one, but never saw evidence of it.
#
# You want to see the certificate? I can xerox it and mail it to you.

not the title, silly, the letter of disentitlement. sometimes the
style with which organizations dismember their participants says
reams for their character.

# ...You tell me why ANYONE would object to his project....

I already did, then you asked me to do it again, then told me
that I was wrong wrong wrong, confused confused confused.

someone might complain if they thought you were factionalizing,
attempting to cause disruption or rifts within the church. this
should be quite plain to you by now, though you keep objecting
to it as if it cannot be conceptually possible. that you don't
agree that it was happening is secondary to the actuality that
it seems this is how the perception laid out. if you come to me
again and ask me why I *believe* this, then you're being silly.

# Mrs. Flowers is writing another book.

what were her previous books?

# Featured in her book, will be a great deal about the SRs.

congrats. it's fun to be the subject of books.

# I could care less what you put on some usenet archives.

I try to be careful, patient.

# Falsehoods abound on usenet - from what I can see,
# due to people that can't read too well. Like you.

so mean. thanks for correcting my misapprehension, then.

# ...Gilmore effectively did tell Tim to shut up - but why....

it seems he didn't like Tani&Co ("Tani's clique") and how
it was attempting to foster disturbances within the CoS.
apparently you think it was some other reason, but I've
not seen much from you which supports your contentions.

# ...Satan is a word in the English language now, yes?

a pronoun, sometimes a composite or vague noun.

# You seem to be a usenet troll after all.

I think I'll add that one to my list of terms finalizing
interactions (somebody's Law):

When the terms 'nazi' and 'Hitler'
(plus 'sinner', 'heretic', and now 'troll')
are brought into discussions as character
evaluations and condition-assessments,
one may be sure that there is little
value in continuing the exchange.

certain key terms are valuably used this way.
"troll" is probably one of them.

# You ask questions, but do not want the answers.

you were saying this about other alt.satanism newsgroup denizens.

Ms. TANYA KNOWS ALL!
She Will Determine Your Wants and Needs!
Only $5!! Step Right Up!

# You just invent the answers and go on that.

thank you for your feedback. I'm very creative.

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang ©
2004-12-16 06:38:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
50041215 viii om Hail Satan!
#> ...even if you choose CoS, and wanna pay your $200, then why should
#> they keep you out of the church?
# Why are you asking me this?
because you seem not to be able to discern between litmus gateways to
membership based on doctrines (i.e. 'Do you believe in the writings
of Anton Szandor LaVey? []YES []NO (If you check no, don't apply.)),
and doctrinal assertions intended to repel current members after they
have already paid their $200 (i.e. 'You are hereby encouraged, since
you do not actually believe in the writings of Anton Szandor LaVey,
to discontinue your membership in the Church of Satan, turn in your
membership card, and desist in your communications with us. Thanks.")
I'm just helping you to orient is all. that's called a 'rhetorical'
question, Tani. sometimes I like to respond to them as if they are not
rhetorical, ignore sarcasm, humour, whatever. it can be instructive.
# Btw, J. Mueller is one of the hard ass founders - he's not too
# friendly to people ...... LIKE YOU.
it isn't intentional, I assure you. :> you and I just speak frankly
and sometimes step on each other's toes in debates.
Tyagi, a Debate is NOT when you so grossly get something SO wrong - that
it's almost comical. Now - I have posted Tim's OWN intro to his own
project. I have posted the essays that I know absolutely he HAD on his own
site. You refuse to read them? Read them - and then YOU TELL ME why
Gilmore WHINED about it - or rather, why Ygraine whined and Gilmore did her
the "favor" of slamming Tim.

Long before SR had any of Tim's essays up, TIM had them up, with the intro I
posted, with the essays and "email dialogue" I posted for you to read. I
also posted the log of HIM getting threatened for you to see. The whole
compilation was just so good that we decided to put it up on SR - and Tim
was FOR IT. Since he let SR do that, then it was up to SR to get PRO
fascist essays too - what we could find - and show the whole picture, let
all parties speak.

I have also posted the UNEDITED EMAIL that went between Tim and Gilmore.
Now - you hare read that. Now read what Gilmore READ to inspired hjim to
write it - TIM'S ESSAYS and his own statements that were THERE on his
website. Do that. Then get back to me. It's quite a bit of reading - and
DO YOU SEE THE POSTS? I cross posted to your group. alt.m.t.

Where are you even getting the rubbish you are coming up with? Aside form
that, these castrati on here butting into this shit when they had NO part in
any of it at the time - are just distractions.

This IS archiveable - because it's published written hard core proof:

1. Let it be known that in every issue of "The Black Flame," the Church of
Satan's own official mouthpiece, Tani's and/or her group's material and
articles can be seen.

2. Let it be known that the Church of Satan wrote about all of this material
from Tani and her group as the ROOTS of Satanism, the FOUNDATIONS of
Satanism and other such astonishing, impacting words.

3. Let it be known that the Church of Satan's High Priest, Anton LaVey,
handed Tani Jantsang a honorary title of Magistra specifically for this
material. This is not the same as a Priestess; it is a lot higher. This is
also not the same as handing out a red membership card.

4. Let it be known that the Church of Satan made use of this FOUNDATIONAL
ROOTS material and tried to incorporate it, and that an entire Grotto of the
Church of Satan was based on this material. In fact, the person was handed
the Grotto and a Priesthood for this material by Anton LaVey.

5. Let it be known that this is what was ongoing since 1990 in the Church of
Satan until they were forbidden to use any of the material by Tani Jantsang
et. al. as this material is copyrighted. Copyright Registration Number TX
5-926-685, 1990, owned by Philip Marsh.

And now for the other side, offering hard proof in the form of published,
in-print material:

6. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang never once incorporated a single thing
that was of the Church of Satan or any of its members; not one single idea!

7. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang never had any USE for any of their
material or ideas!

8. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang did not consider Anton LaVey her High
Priest of any sort.

9. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang never once, at any time, put any such
title on any single thing she wrote for them, for others, or sold in the
Dark Tradition Monographs, otherwise known as the Dark Doctrines, which you
can find on our organizational website for free, or buy monographs.

10. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang was also handed two other titles in
Satanic organizations before Anton Lavey gave her one, and that one of these
organizations, The Embasat, was at odds with the Church of Satan.

11. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang held these three titles at the same
time and this was well-known to these three organizations.

12. Let it be known that these other organizations also used material from
Tani and her group and one of them, the Order of the Left Hand Path, even
represented itself as a "Dark Doctrine" organization in the published book
"Lucifer Rising."

There are hard facts, proven by published material.

Now, I fail to see how anyone can "take something away" that was unused and
worthless to the person. I DO see how taking something from THEM that they
DID use extensively for years hurt them. Got it? It's elementary, dear
Watson!
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
#> through time and in many instances you have sought to get
#> this accepted within the Satanist community
# ...Do you think that nagging is going to get SR people on usenet to
# talk to you?....
I never got that impression or had that in mind, no.
# ...twin headed, going in circles. And you seek to drag ME around
# in circles.
LOL! better know when to get off then.
#>#> do you think Aquino was contacted by extant survivals of
#>#> ancient priestly lineages worshipping Set? in the flesh?
#>#
#># I have no idea. Maybe he was.
#>
#> maybe Budge wrote about those too? :>
#
# Why don't you ask him . Why are you asking ME?
Budge? LOL!
#> I didn't see any
#> letter informing you that you no longer had your CoS title
#> that you'd just used for the first time to struggle with CoS.
#> I gather you received one, but never saw evidence of it.
#
# You want to see the certificate? I can xerox it and mail it to you.
not the title, silly, the letter of disentitlement. sometimes the
style with which organizations dismember their participants says
reams for their character.
# ...You tell me why ANYONE would object to his project....
I already did, then you asked me to do it again, then told me
that I was wrong wrong wrong, confused confused confused.
someone might complain if they thought you were factionalizing,
attempting to cause disruption or rifts within the church. this
should be quite plain to you by now, though you keep objecting
to it as if it cannot be conceptually possible. that you don't
agree that it was happening is secondary to the actuality that
it seems this is how the perception laid out. if you come to me
again and ask me why I *believe* this, then you're being silly.
# Mrs. Flowers is writing another book.
what were her previous books?
# Featured in her book, will be a great deal about the SRs.
congrats. it's fun to be the subject of books.
# I could care less what you put on some usenet archives.
I try to be careful, patient.
# Falsehoods abound on usenet - from what I can see,
# due to people that can't read too well. Like you.
so mean. thanks for correcting my misapprehension, then.
# ...Gilmore effectively did tell Tim to shut up - but why....
it seems he didn't like Tani&Co ("Tani's clique") and how
it was attempting to foster disturbances within the CoS.
apparently you think it was some other reason, but I've
not seen much from you which supports your contentions.
# ...Satan is a word in the English language now, yes?
a pronoun, sometimes a composite or vague noun.
# You seem to be a usenet troll after all.
I think I'll add that one to my list of terms finalizing
When the terms 'nazi' and 'Hitler'
(plus 'sinner', 'heretic', and now 'troll')
are brought into discussions as character
evaluations and condition-assessments,
one may be sure that there is little
value in continuing the exchange.
certain key terms are valuably used this way.
"troll" is probably one of them.
# You ask questions, but do not want the answers.
you were saying this about other alt.satanism newsgroup denizens.
Ms. TANYA KNOWS ALL!
She Will Determine Your Wants and Needs!
Only $5!! Step Right Up!
# You just invent the answers and go on that.
thank you for your feedback. I'm very creative.
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Tani Jantsang ©
2004-12-16 06:48:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
#
# Why don't you ask him . Why are you asking ME?
Budge? LOL!
Aquino Ask him.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
# ...You tell me why ANYONE would object to his project....
I already did, then you asked me to do it again, then told me
that I was wrong wrong wrong, confused confused confused.
No, you didn't - because you never looked at Tim's actual intro (JUST
POSTED NOW) and the essays he HAD there for Gilmore to see (POSTED the other
day). You didn't read any of that Read what Tim wrote, what he collected -
THEN tell me why anyone would object to his project! And that had NOTHING
TO DO with the Mag title, for shit's sakes. That happened way before that,
man.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
someone might complain if they thought you were factionalizing,
attempting to cause disruption or rifts within the church.
TIM was not doing that. You refuse to just read what he had up there - and
his intro - all posted now. But ME? Heh. anyone that asked me personally
I told them I was not a member and never would be one - had no use for it.
If they asked me why I never used the title (Ben of the COS did) - I told
them why! This was ongoing for YEARS offline, btw. If they asked me why
THEY USED OUR STUFF - but WE DID NOT USE THEIR STUFF - I plainly told them
why. It's a little thing called VALUE.

this
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
should be quite plain to you by now, though you keep objecting
to it as if it cannot be conceptually possible. that you don't
agree that it was happening is secondary to the actuality that
it seems this is how the perception laid out. if you come to me
again and ask me why I *believe* this, then you're being silly.
You believe falsehoods! You have not read what PG read which was on Tim's
site. I think you have this ALL confused with the cos files Ole had up
there way way later on.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
# Mrs. Flowers is writing another book.
what were her previous books?
Ask her.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
# Featured in her book, will be a great deal about the SRs.
congrats. it's fun to be the subject of books.
# I could care less what you put on some usenet archives.
I try to be careful, patient.
Well, you'll need patience to read Tim's intro and his essay collections
POSTED on here.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
# Falsehoods abound on usenet - from what I can see,
# due to people that can't read too well. Like you.
so mean. thanks for correcting my misapprehension, then.
# ...Gilmore effectively did tell Tim to shut up - but why....
it seems he didn't like Tani&Co ("Tani's clique") and how
it was attempting to foster disturbances within the CoS.
Where did PG get the idea that T and company were in any way doing a damned
thing, when Tim had asked for essays MONTHS prior and finally got them? I
got news for you, Tani and Comapny - more appropriately called the DARK DOC
CREW were NEVER unified with the cos - and every fucking org out there and
independent out there KNEW THAT. WHY didn't YOU know it? Too new to the
scene? Shit, even peple in the TOS knew it, Aquino posted about it.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
apparently you think it was some other reason, but I've
not seen much from you which supports your contentions.
Tim's intro - and his essays - POSTED. Go read them! If PG got that
impression from any of it, I know exactly where he got it from: YGRAINE
GIDNEY! I was there. I saw the duel on their COS message board between
Ygraine and Ole and Tim! Did anyone save it? I don't know . I didn't.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
# ...Satan is a word in the English language now, yes?
a pronoun, sometimes a composite or vague noun.
# You seem to be a usenet troll after all.
I think I'll add that one to my list of terms finalizing
You seem like one when you don't just read what Tim ahd up there.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
When the terms 'nazi' and 'Hitler'
(plus 'sinner', 'heretic', and now 'troll')
are brought into discussions as character
evaluations and condition-assessments,
one may be sure that there is little
value in continuing the exchange.
certain key terms are valuably used this way.
"troll" is probably one of them.
Sorry, but that is how the other founders see you. That's probably how
Aquino et all see you too! And I'd tell you who ELSE saw you as that, but
without written proof you'll just not believe me. So I won't tell you.
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
# You ask questions, but do not want the answers.
you were saying this about other alt.satanism newsgroup denizens.
Ms. TANYA KNOWS ALL!
She Will Determine Your Wants and Needs!
Only $5!! Step Right Up!
# You just invent the answers and go on that.
thank you for your feedback. I'm very creative.
Creativity is not what "archiving" is about. You want to display Tim's
intro and essays for all to see and THEN show the actual unedited email
between Pete and Tim? That would be OBJECTIVE. .
Post by SOD of the CoE -- usenet troll?
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
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